News Forum - “Covid is going nowhere, get vaccinated” – leading Thai virologist

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, Manu said:

Conspiracy theory, again? So you did not check...

And those are also conspiracy theorises against Big Pharma (sic!)...

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsonandjohnson-cancer/

Need some more? Well do your own research, I give up trying to make just a simple point there.

At no point have I claimed these companies are perfect. They get stuff wrong just like anyone else.

However your claim they are all corrupt is simply wrong as I pointed out. Now I understand that undermines your position on covid vaccines but its a fact. Something you would know if you had ever worked for a company like Astra Zeneca as I did.

But never mind me you carry on getting your information from some basement dweller who tells you "they" are all corrupt.

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Manu said:

My original comment was the answer to Aussiebob who clearly comptemplate to send everyone not vaccinated evntually to jail.I quote:

So where did AussieBob mention jail? He didnt.

No you simply decided that hyperbole was the best course of action.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Rookiescot

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

In order to post an article in the Lancet you have to be an expert in a relevant field. The article is then reviewed by other experts and corrections/clarifications made before it gets published.

Sorry, @Rookiescot, but while I agree 100% with the rest of your post that's not how it works with the Lancet. 

While you do have to be "an expert in a relevant field", many of their articles aren't "reviewed by other experts and corrections/clarifications made before it gets published" and they're published without peer review, particularly recently where Covid is concerned and time is considered of the essence.  They frequently include a notice that they haven't been peer reviewed, but it's not always in the article itself but in the notes in the Lancet.

If you read the Lancet articles you'll also find that the 'conclusions' reached by the articles frequently bear little or no resemblance to what they're claimed to say, either here or elsewhere, and what they actually say is very, very different.

The particular article linked to in the Lancet here previously, for example, ( https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext ) not only doesn't support the claim it's supposed to but very clearly completely contradicts it. Whether that's deliberate or because it's been misunderstood it's impossible to say.

[Manu]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

At no point have I claimed these companies are perfect. They get stuff wrong just like anyone else.

However your claim they are all corrupt is simply wrong as I pointed out. Now I understand that undermines your position on covid vaccines but its a fact. Something you would know if you had ever worked for a company like Astra Zeneca as I did.

But never mind me you carry on getting your information from some basement dweller who tells you "they" are all corrupt.

Ah here we come. Well thanks to end your denying. "get stuff wrong"... well it is better than forcing

Quote

However your claim they are all corrupt is simply wrong

 

Where on earth did I say that? Where and when? I tell you where and when: never I said that, you just chose to understand that, putting in stuff in your opposition like 5g or microships or things I have no clue about. You see, typical... Questioning is not allowed nowadays, one question does mean questioning everything? Being careful does not mean rejecting everything? Certainly accepting everything from Big Pharma (like you then) is very naive...to put it politely. That's all I am saying.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, @Rookiescot, but while I agree 100% with the rest of your post that's not how it works with the Lancet. 

While you do have to be "an expert in a relevant field", many of their articles aren't "reviewed by other experts and corrections/clarifications made before it gets published" and they're published without review, particularly recently where Covid is concerned and time is considered of the essence.  They frequently include a notice that they haven't been peer reviewed, but it's not always in the article itself but in the notes in the Lancet.

If you read the Lancet articles you'll also find that the 'conclusions' reached by the articles bear little or no resemblance to what they're claimed to say, either here or elsewhere, and what they actually say is very, very different.

The particular article linked to in the Lancet here previously, for example, ( https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext ) not only doesn't support the claim it's supposed to but very clearly completely contradicts it. Whether that's deliberate or because it's been misunderstood it's impossible to say.

I take that on board Stonker. I just remember they used to be peer reviewed before publication. But that was a long time ago.

It is however clearly a finer publication than some weirdo on the internet posting stuff about covid in-between his surfing of porn hub  

[Manu]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So where did AussieBob mention jail? He didnt.

No you simply decided that hyperbole was the best course of action.

Quote

I dont agree with mandates - but I do agree with enforcing consequences on those who chose to not vaccinate.  They cant have their cake and eat it too.  The herd has rules and this is one the herd has implemented. Dont like it, then leave the herd - isolation, unemployment, no travel, fines, jail, etc.

Give it to me as much as you can. Here is (again, it was in my last comment) the exact quote of AussieBob' post 1 hour ago. Now that's enough of that. Good evening to you.

Quote

I dont agree with mandates - but I do agree with enforcing consequences on those who chose to not vaccinate.  They cant have their cake and eat it too.  The herd has rules and this is one the herd has implemented. Dont like it, then leave the herd - isolation, unemployment, no travel, fines, jail, etc.

 

[Rookiescot]

46 minutes ago, Manu said:

Now I am not sure what you are on about with your 5g or microship. What I know for sure is that the Pharmaceutical industry is the most corrupted and that you should be very carefull to put your entire trust into their hands.

That bit.

[Cg66]

On 11/25/2021 at 4:50 AM, UncleFatBloke said:

The vaxxes are proven NOT to stop you getting infected or tranferring the virus onto others.

The vaccine efficacy wanes afetr just 2 months, and after 6 months is basically useless, so boosters will be needed by the whole population every 6 months for the rest of time! That is pure insanity for a virus that kills less than 0.003% of the population!

A vaxination strategy is doomed to failure.

You cannot stop Covid. It is endemic!

The vaccines has proved to help the aged and health-vulnerable, so they should get boosters, but NO-ONE else! 

The risk of dying from Covid for anyone under 60 years old is statistically the same as the risk from dying from a sharp object!

Shall we ban knives?!

Its got nothing to do with vaccines, it’s all about the implementation of a digital passport which will control every aspect of your life. Why do you think they need 100% vaccination rate, including children that patently  don’t need it? Just vulnerable need the jab? Then the over 60s, then the over 50s, all the way down to children now. Engage memory! They need everyone to get digital ID. What’s it got to do with health? Do you want some fuel? Show your ID. Do you want to go in a restaurant? Show your ID. Do you want to get on that plane? Show your ID. Broken the rules? We’ll  have some money as a fine out of your bank account that is linked to your digital ID. Billionaires are buying up all the assets, while the plebs watch their savings being inflated away. Fiat money is on the way out. How can you have a scenario where you order container loads of goods from China from the USA, and then print a load dollars to pay for it? This is the elites way of dealing with another banking crash. 

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, Cg66 said:

Its got nothing to do with vaccines, it’s all about the implementation of a digital passport which will control every aspect of your life. Why do you think they need 100% vaccination rate, including children that patently  don’t need it? Just vulnerable need the jab? Then the over 60s, then the over 50s, all the way down to children now. Engage memory! They need everyone to get digital ID. What’s it got to do with health? Do you want some fuel? Show your ID. Do you want to go in a restaurant? Show your ID. Do you want to get on that plane? Show your ID. Broken the rules? We’ll  have some money as a fine out of your bank account that is linked to your digital ID. Billionaires are buying up all the assets, while the plebs watch their savings being inflated away. Fiat money is on the way out. How can you have a scenario where you order container loads of goods from China from the USA, and then print a load dollars to pay for it? This is the elites way of dealing with another banking crash. 

No. Its about dealing with a pandemic. 

Everyone already has a digital ID. Why would "they" need another one?

[mickkotlarski]

39 minutes ago, Manu said:

Give it to me as much as you can. Here is (again, it was in my last comment) the exact quote of AussieBob' post 1 hour ago. Now that's enough of that. Good evening to you.

Hi Manu

I'm of a pro vaccine standpoint but I have my concerns for some that have not vaccinated and have been demonized as antivax fools that must be punished.

Some are legitimately concerned over issues such as side effects and those with serious health issues are most at risk.

I don't believe that they should be denied travel, employment, public services etc. While a fully vaccinated individual may be allowed "freedoms" and greater ease of movement when they can and do contract and spread the virus.

Others that are not vaccinated may be covid19 free yet not denied freedom of movement  but also punished for having fears and apprehensions.

My honest view point is although procedures be stricter for the unvaccinated, they should not be threatened with disciplinary action and in particular not be treated as felons. Would it not be better to continue educating rather than simply attacking them? 

Once a full proof vaccine be developed then the more non democratic measures would make more sense.

I can understand why the public protests are happening especially in nations with high vaccination numbers.

Dr.Fauci released a statement this week that the vaccines have not been effective in combating the virus but get more boosters anyway. The statement itself shows a +VE as the death rate has been lowered but a -VE in that profit margins come first.

I will get a booster in March or April as I still believe the vaccines do some good. Better to be vaccinated if being infected than unvaccinated. But Still believe that people that are hesitant not be punished.  

 

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

At no point have I claimed these companies are perfect. They get stuff wrong just like anyone else.

However your claim they are all corrupt is simply wrong as I pointed out. Now I understand that undermines your position on covid vaccines but its a fact. Something you would know if you had ever worked for a company like Astra Zeneca as I did.

But never mind me you carry on getting your information from some basement dweller who tells you "they" are all corrupt.

Hi Rookiescot

I noticed that you said you worked for AstraZeneca. I heard at the start of the pandemic that Oxford University laboratories are developing a vaccine to combat the virus. The successful blueprint was to be distributed to laboratories worldwide so production could be commenced with no charge to recipients without prejudice.

I was immediately in awe of the people that worked on the project not only in their academic abilities but their moral integrity.

I then hear that Astra Zeneca took over and with Billy  Gates suggesting that a pharmaceutical company now control distribution of the vaccine and a retail price be set.

I hope you don't see me as a basement dweller but these companies have made enormous profits. In America 93% of the FDA's funds are provided by Big Pharma. I have my suspicions about corruption as well. Or exploitation for profit. 

How did you find Astra Zeneca? Just asking old boy. Simply want to hear what all parties say without casting judgement.

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, mickkotlarski said:

Hi Rookiescot

I noticed that you said you worked for AstraZeneca. I heard at the start of the pandemic that Oxford University laboratories are developing a vaccine to combat the virus. The successful blueprint was to be distributed to laboratories worldwide so production could be commenced with no charge to recipients without prejudice.

I was immediately in awe of the people that worked on the project not only in their academic abilities but their moral integrity.

I then hear that Astra Zeneca took over and with Billy  Gates suggesting that a pharmaceutical company now control distribution of the vaccine and a retail price be set.

I hope you don't see me as a basement dweller but these companies have made enormous profits. In America 93% of the FDA's funds are provided by Big Pharma. I have my suspicions about corruption as well. Or exploitation for profit. 

How did you find Astra Zeneca? Just asking old boy. Simply want to hear what all parties say without casting judgement.

Indeed Oxford Uni did come up with the vaccine but they did it in partnership with Astra Zeneca.

Its OK being able to produce something in a lab but producing something on a mass scale takes a lot of other skills. Astra Zeneca has those skills. 

The AZ vaccine was sold at cost. I know that for a fact. Since the requirement for boosters has come in they have raised the price slightly for western countries but not by much. The price for developing countries remains at cost and the license to produce it has been given to several companies for free but with AZ oversight to make sure the product is made to the required specifications. Now if that is not a decent company with an excellent moral compass and operating with a high degree of morality then I have no idea what would be.

As I mentioned earlier AZ has done a lot of work in Africa to alleviate the issues which inflict those places. Mosquito nets. Rice with vitamin A in it. A vaccine for malaria (and lets face it there is zero profit to be made there) all of these things were done without fanfare or press involvement. AZ did it because it was the right thing to do. These are only the things which I knew about when I worked for them. They have probably done a lot more since.

It is really irritating when you hear slogans and buzzwords like "Big pharma" "corruption" "evil" and all the rest of them when you actually know a company is doing the right thing whenever it can.

Does AZ make mistakes? Of course they do. Everyone is human. But when it comes to trying to do the best they can then that is a company which does. 

AZ was (and I suspect still is) an excellent company to work for. The only reason I left AZ is because they divested their agrochemical division which was the bit I worked in. 

[mickkotlarski]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Indeed Oxford Uni did come up with the vaccine but they did it in partnership with Astra Zeneca.

Its OK being able to produce something in a lab but producing something on a mass scale takes a lot of other skills. Astra Zeneca has those skills. 

The AZ vaccine was sold at cost. I know that for a fact. Since the requirement for boosters has come in they have raised the price slightly for western countries but not by much. The price for developing countries remains at cost and the license to produce it has been given to several companies for free but with AZ oversight to make sure the product is made to the required specifications. Now if that is not a decent company with an excellent moral compass and operating with a high degree of morality then I have no idea what would be.

As I mentioned earlier AZ has done a lot of work in Africa to alleviate the issues which inflict those places. Mosquito nets. Rice with vitamin A in it. A vaccine for malaria (and lets face it there is zero profit to be made there) all of these things were done without fanfare or press involvement. AZ did it because it was the right thing to do. These are only the things which I knew about when I worked for them. They have probably done a lot more since.

It is really irritating when you hear slogans and buzzwords like "Big pharma" "corruption" "evil" and all the rest of them when you actually know a company is doing the right thing whenever it can.

Does AZ make mistakes? Of course they do. Everyone is human. But when it comes to trying to do the best they can then that is a company which does. 

AZ was (and I suspect still is) an excellent company to work for. The only reason I left AZ is because they divested their agrochemical division which was the bit I worked in. 

Thank you for that. Prefer to stay center on the topic as don't know enough to cast judgement. It was interesting when looking at relative prices for dosage. Astra Zeneca, Sinovac, J&J and Sputnik were all fairer in price. Not to slag off the mRNA producers but while the first 4 had a rice range of $4 to $8 the Moderna and Pfizer were priced at $32 and $37.

I still have my reservations about BigPharma but your message has convinced me to stay moderate.

Thanks again Rookiescot.

 

[Bob20]

46 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Indeed Oxford Uni did come up with the vaccine but they did it in partnership with Astra Zeneca.

Its OK being able to produce something in a lab but producing something on a mass scale takes a lot of other skills. Astra Zeneca has those skills. 

The AZ vaccine was sold at cost. I know that for a fact. Since the requirement for boosters has come in they have raised the price slightly for western countries but not by much. The price for developing countries remains at cost and the license to produce it has been given to several companies for free but with AZ oversight to make sure the product is made to the required specifications. Now if that is not a decent company with an excellent moral compass and operating with a high degree of morality then I have no idea what would be.

As I mentioned earlier AZ has done a lot of work in Africa to alleviate the issues which inflict those places. Mosquito nets. Rice with vitamin A in it. A vaccine for malaria (and lets face it there is zero profit to be made there) all of these things were done without fanfare or press involvement. AZ did it because it was the right thing to do. These are only the things which I knew about when I worked for them. They have probably done a lot more since.

It is really irritating when you hear slogans and buzzwords like "Big pharma" "corruption" "evil" and all the rest of them when you actually know a company is doing the right thing whenever it can.

Does AZ make mistakes? Of course they do. Everyone is human. But when it comes to trying to do the best they can then that is a company which does. 

AZ was (and I suspect still is) an excellent company to work for. The only reason I left AZ is because they divested their agrochemical division which was the bit I worked in. 

To be fair, it's no different for Pfizer and others, as has been shown here often before and defamed by referring to something in the past or some conspiracy by big pharma with governments in a new world order. 

And it's the same for the new medicines coming online, for which low cost production lines are immediately setup.

Those critics don't realise that, if it weren't for those companies and the vaccines, everything would still be in lockdown with exponentially more severe sick, dead and fallout from it all.

Then again if you were never in that kind of work, it's easy to criticise everything from behind a keyboard and in anonymity...

[Rain]

9 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Strange, I see it going everywhere

And it's very much at home with us, as we really don't know how to approach it. 

We struggle greatly and COVID knows this.

[Bob20]

6 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Thank you for that. Prefer to stay center on the topic as don't know enough to cast judgement. It was interesting when looking at relative prices for dosage. Astra Zeneca, Sinovac, J&J and Sputnik were all fairer in price. Not to slag off the mRNA producers but while the first 4 had a rice range of $4 to $8 the Moderna and Pfizer were priced at $32 and $37.

I still have my reservations about BigPharma but your message has convinced me to stay moderate.

Thanks again Rookiescot.

Hi Mick, we agree many times, but have a look again at Sinovac, because for Thailand that was more expensive per dose than any of the others and that was the reason for speculation on brown envelopes (seeing the ineffectiveness as well) and the reason they could easily donate some more as it was handsomely paid for already

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

And it's very much at home with us, as we really don't know how to approach it. 

We struggle greatly and COVID knows this.

It's watching you

[SkipsPa]

16 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Thank you for that. Prefer to stay center on the topic as don't know enough to cast judgement. It was interesting when looking at relative prices for dosage. Astra Zeneca, Sinovac, J&J and Sputnik were all fairer in price. Not to slag off the mRNA producers but while the first 4 had a rice range of $4 to $8 the Moderna and Pfizer were priced at $32 and $37.

I still have my reservations about BigPharma but your message has convinced me to stay moderate.

Thanks again Rookiescot.

I suppose I'm lucky maybe living in UK as I've had 3 Pfizers and all free. I just wish our covid stats were a lot lower!

[mickkotlarski]

1 minute ago, Bob20 said:

Hi Mick, we agree many times, but have a look again at Sinovac, because for Thailand that was more expensive per dose than any of the others and that was the reason for speculation on brown envelopes (seeing the ineffectiveness as well) and the reason they could easily donate some more as it was handsomely paid for already

Cheers Bob. This indeed is apparently under investigation by local authorities. Part of the vaccine push is vaccine diplomacy and somebody made a lot of money on the sly. I know that Chile, Mongolia and Brazil have had similar complaints and as you said of all the available vaccines Sinovac was the least effective and shortest lasting protection.

China has since pushed research hard to produce a better quality but even with faults of the other available vaccines this is the one to trust the least.

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Thank you for that. Prefer to stay center on the topic as don't know enough to cast judgement. It was interesting when looking at relative prices for dosage. Astra Zeneca, Sinovac, J&J and Sputnik were all fairer in price. Not to slag off the mRNA producers but while the first 4 had a rice range of $4 to $8 the Moderna and Pfizer were priced at $32 and $37.

I still have my reservations about BigPharma but your message has convinced me to stay moderate.

Thanks again Rookiescot.

Thing is the production costs for mRNA vaccines were probably far higher. It comes down to the price of raw materials and availability plus the time to create and test the product.

Now I need to say I have never worked for Pfizer or Moderna so my knowledge here is limited.

[mickkotlarski]

1 minute ago, SkipsPa said:

I suppose I'm lucky maybe living in UK as I've had 3 Pfizers and all free. I just wish our covid stats were a lot lower!

I was quoting the cost of purchase that governments spend (well actually tax payers). The cost in private hospitals has since for the most gone down. But I do feel for many European nations right now. UK, Russia, Germany and France are horribly affected.

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, mickkotlarski said:

I was quoting the cost of purchase that governments spend (well actually tax payers). The cost in private hospitals has since for the most gone down. But I do feel for many European nations right now. UK, Russia, Germany and France are horribly affected.

People complain about the "draconian" methods in Australia but the fact is they have a far lower death rate than most Western countries have achieved.

I get that its a pain in the arse for everyone but how many lives have been saved because of it? 

[mickkotlarski]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Thing is the production costs for mRNA vaccines were probably far higher. It comes down to the price of raw materials and availability plus the time to create and test the product.

Now I need to say I have never worked for Pfizer or Moderna so my knowledge here is limited.

Again another reason to keep an open mind.

The scientists at Novavax were asked why they are taking so long. The initial answer was "we are not making aspirin". The containment bags alone are designed to hold huge volumes of vaccine (any imperfections and the membranes are toast). The stages of production are mind boggling. All must be done in very controlled environments. Add to that the emergence of new strains mutating.

It could easily be that the mRNA vaccines are more complicated. After all to alter an mRNA and have the body order itself to fight a foreign element is impressive. Understandable why a racing bike costs more than a scooter. The raw materials I don't want to go into as the complications involved gathering them and  making RNA are way above my personal knowledge.

Although I still have several reservations about the mRNA vaccines the people involved in the research aren't just mixing fizzy drinks. Hence the new research will be interesting.   

[mickkotlarski]

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

People complain about the "draconian" methods in Australia but the fact is they have a far lower death rate than most Western countries have achieved.

I get that its a pain in the arse for everyone but how many lives have been saved because of it? 

Again. Great point. Keeping in touch with the old country many are divided in opinion but for so long ourselves and New Zealand kept the numbers of infections down. Some may correctly say that a lower population and being Islands helped.  But Japan, Philippines and Indonesia are also Island Nations.

Though the lockdowns were overdone peoples lives were saved.

 

[Bob20]

And as the topic goes: Get vaccinated.

And don't just yet rely on the promise of medication as Molnupiravir isn't as effective as first thought...

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-and-ridgeback-biotherapeutics-provide-update-on-results-from-move-out-study-of-molnupiravir-an-investigational-oral-antiviral-medicine-in-at-risk-adults-with-mild-to-moderate-covid-19/