News Forum - “Covid is going nowhere, get vaccinated” – leading Thai virologist

[Thaiger]

One of Thailand’s most prominent virologists says the Covid-19 virus is going nowhere and everyone should get vaccinated. According to a Nation Thailand report, Yong Poovorawan took to social media to say the virus is here to stay and society will need to live with it. However, vaccination will offer protection from serious illness, hospitalisation, or death. Yong made reference to the first SARS virus in 2003 – SARS-CoV-1 – which could not be contained, despite attempts then to achieve herd immunity. While there have been no reported cases of SARS-CoV-1 since 2004, the world is now battling SARS-CoV-2, better […]

The story “Covid is going nowhere, get vaccinated” – leading Thai virologist as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

[MikeW]

Covid is here to stay so learn to live with it and open everything up 

[Chaimai]

16 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Covid is here to stay so learn to live with it and open everything up 

 

I would agree  -  the time is about right for doing that.

[mickkotlarski]

2 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

I would agree  -  the time is about right for doing that.

Ditto. Time to learn to live with Covid19 while researchers find ways of combating it. Whats the point of staying restricted or unemployed. Keep adhering to  precautions, avoid big crowds, get vaccinated and keep test kits on hand....and carry on with the one life you know of.

[Bob20]

19 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Covid is here to stay so learn to live with it and open everything up 

 

2 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

I would agree  -  the time is about right for doing that.

Sure Just look at how well that works out, even in countries where the vaccination rate is much higher...

To do that in Thailand would end up in disaster. The virus would spread, many people are not protected yet (even the Sinovac vaccinated aren't protected), hospitals will fill up even more and very quickly, plus death rates will rise quickly. Then there will be a serious lockdown again and we'll have to start from scratch from a far worse situation.

Now, there has been quite poor decision making, but fortunately they're not taking advice from this forum just yet

First we get to a high level of vaccination with effective vaccines. Then, yes, open up responsibly or we'll have the same jojo effect that other countries see.

[UncleFatBloke]

The vaxxes are proven NOT to stop you getting infected or tranferring the virus onto others.

The vaccine efficacy wanes afetr just 2 months, and after 6 months is basically useless, so boosters will be needed by the whole population every 6 months for the rest of time! That is pure insanity for a virus that kills less than 0.003% of the population!

A vaxination strategy is doomed to failure.

You cannot stop Covid. It is endemic!

The vaccines has proved to help the aged and health-vulnerable, so they should get boosters, but NO-ONE else! 

The risk of dying from Covid for anyone under 60 years old is statistically the same as the risk from dying from a sharp object!

Shall we ban knives?!

[HolyCowCm]

Covid is going nowhere? Isn't it Covid is going everywhere?

[Chaimai]

6 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Sure Just look at how well that works out, even in countries where the vaccination rate is much higher...

To do that in Thailand would end up in disaster. The virus would spread, many people are not protected yet (even the Sinovac vaccinated aren't protected), hospitals will fill up even more and very quickly, plus death rates will rise quickly. Then there will be a serious lockdown again and we'll have to start from scratch from a far worse situation.

Now, there has been quite poor decision making, but fortunately they're not taking advice from this forum just yet

First we get to a high level of vaccination with effective vaccines. Then, yes, open up responsibly or we'll have the same jojo effect that other countries see.

 

I disagree Bob.

 

Thailand is opening up already  -  but discreetly, and with discrimination against many bar and restaurant owners. Life is going on; domestic tourism is increasing and weekend hotspots are as busy as pre-Covid (but without hoards of Chinese zero-Baht tourists).

 

In my locale we have been able to purchase alcohol at 'restaurants' for months...........still using beakers and coffee mugs! All venues are managing to keep afloat (and in some cases prosper) as a result of this.

 

The number of Covid infections has not shown any increase. People wear masks in public and exercise varying degrees of social distancing etc. I guess 60% of the population  have been fully vaccinated. The vulnerable will continue to protect themselves.

 

That is living with Covid, not surrendering to it. Covid itself should be feared no more than influenza if you have adequate inoculation or immunity.

 

Zero Covid is an impossible target - get economies moving again. 

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

I disagree Bob.

Thailand is opening up already  -  but discreetly, and with discrimination against many bar and restaurant owners. Life is going on; domestic tourism is increasing and weekend hotspots are as busy as pre-Covid (but without hoards of Chinese zero-Baht tourists).

In my locale we have been able to purchase alcohol at 'restaurants' for months...........still using beakers and coffee mugs! All venues are managing to keep afloat (and in some cases prosper) as a result of this.

The number of Covid infections has not shown any increase. People wear masks in public and exercise varying degrees of social distancing etc. I guess 60% of the population  have been fully vaccinated. The vulnerable will continue to protect themselves.

That is living with Covid, not surrendering to it. Covid itself should be feared no more than influenza if you have adequate inoculation or immunity.

Zero Covid is an impossible target - get economies moving again. 

I don't mind if someone disagrees, that's great for discussion. You just shouldn't close your eyes to what is happening everywhere else.

No, Covid isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. That's why you don't let it rip free, but you take precautions to limit the damage.

Vaccinate the people that want to and take precautions when opening.

Can I remind you that HIV isn't going anywhere either and I don't see anyone advocating not taking precautions for that. 

Why? Because the fact that it isn't going away, is no reason to be careless.

[Chaimai]

3 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

I don't mind if someone disagrees, that's great for discussion. You just shouldn't close your eyes to what is happening everywhere else.

No, Covid isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. That's why you don't let it rip free, but you take precautions to limit the damage.

Vaccinate the people that want to and take precautions when opening.

Can I remind you that HIV isn't going anywhere either and I don't see anyone advocating not taking precautions for that. 

Why? Because the fact that it isn't going away, is no reason to be careless.

 

 

Interestingly, HIV has taken a must lower profile with drugs enabling most people to live a normal life.

 

Nowhere did I advocate carelessness. A sensible reopening, with a degree of protection measures in place, is something I have called for for a month or so. Self-protection and proceeding cautiously is the way to live with Covid.

 

I have some sympathy with the Thai authorities who recognise that they cannot trust their own citizens with total freedom. However, the obsession with alcohol prohibition in bars and restaurants defies logic. The drinking habits of Thais is supported by 7-11's, beer shops and Mom & Pop shops.

[Bob20]

10 minutes ago, UncleFatBloke said:

The vaccine efficacy wanes afetr just 2 months, and after 6 months is basically useless, 

As with @Chaimai I don't mind a discussion, but I do mind blatant disinformation.

After 6 months for instance Pfizer is still on average 45% effective, which is a lot more than Sinovac after even 2 weeks. 

And there is no need to keep peddling the story about catching or transmitting the virus. It was never claimed vaccines would stop that by the developers. That's what politicians and others were "claiming or hoping". 

But being protected from severe illness or death by a vaccine that arrived much quicker than expected, was more than we had expected so soon.

Yes, open up, after people have been vaccinated with an effective vaccine. And open up cleverly with some restrictions, so the hospitals don't fill up with unvaccinated people like happens elsewhere, then requiring new very strict measures.

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

Interestingly, HIV has taken a must lower profile with drugs enabling most people to live a normal life.

Nowhere did I advocate carelessness. A sensible reopening, with a degree of protection measures in place, is something I have called for for a month or so. Self-protection and proceeding cautiously is the way to live with Covid.

I have some sympathy with the Thai authorities who recognise that they cannot trust their own citizens with total freedom. However, the obsession with alcohol prohibition in bars and restaurants defies logic. The drinking habits of Thais is supported by 7-11's, beer shops and Mom & Pop shops.

Yes, HIV can be treated much better nowadays. But my point was that you don't just ditch all precautions to avoid catching it.

And you now sound much more detailed, whereas at first it was a simple "yes, time to open up, because Covid isn't going away".

Sure, after the disaster with Sinovac and many delays, let people get proper vaccines. Then sensibly start opening up. Fair enough.

[NCC1701A]

two years ago this month. you see where this is headed? 

 

[Chaimai]

2 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Yes, HIV can be treated much better nowadays. But my point was that you don't just ditch all precautions to avoid catching it.

And you now sound much more detailed, whereas at first it was a simple "yes, time to open up, because Covid isn't going away".

Sure, after the disaster with Sinovac and many delays, let people get proper vaccines. Then sensibly start opening up. Fair enough.

 

Yes. I would never suggest a cavalier approach.

 

However, I do favour a POSITIVE approach to learning to live with Covid with no/few restrictions on opening places. Then open with safety precautions....... those can be debated but I like the idea of SHA certificates, space for the option of social distancing etc, etc.

 

I don't recommend a free for all with clubs, disco's, large Thai-style bars running to maximum capacity. Yes, that would dampen the atmosphere but there is a sensible price to pay for the freedom to open up again.

[Bob20]

4 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

Yes. I would never suggest a cavalier approach.

However, I do favour a POSITIVE approach to learning to live with Covid with no/few restrictions on opening places. Then open with safety precautions....... those can be debated but I like the idea of SHA certificates, space for the option of social distancing etc, etc.

I don't recommend a free for all with clubs, disco's, large Thai-style bars running to maximum capacity. Yes, that would dampen the atmosphere but there is a sensible price to pay for the freedom to open up again.

I'm hesitant about QR codes and certificates. In Europe and the US there have been countless reports of fraud already.

Even today a doctor in Belgium was arrested and is facing 5-10 years in prison as he provided some 2000 false vaccine certificates to people who don't want to be vaccinated...

Best way really is to vaccinate everyone who wants it and with an effective vaccine. These people will not fill up hospital capacity.

And as the result of ending any restrictions won't be seen for some 2 weeks, we need to release restrictions slowly until we arrive at a situation of hospitalisations and deaths that is seen as "acceptable". I'm not going to decide what that level is, but it should be set and maintained! Then we can have a reasonably stable situation without big peaks and troughs.

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

With Marek disease with relatively low mortality rate the chicken mega farms started mass vaccinations with similar leaky vaccine in the 1960s and 1970s. With each new chicken generation the virus got stronger and more vicious because the leakiness allowed it to evolve through mutations.

Today, the poultry industry is dependent on the vaccine because an unvaccinated chicken dies within two weeks if put together with vaccinated chickens, because of shedding of that lethal virus. Mortality rate 100 percent among unvaccinated. What is more worrying they have to keep developing that vaccine to keep up with the race.

That kind of phenomena could be happening with Covid-19. Why to get vaccinated if it only makes it evolve into much more dangerous because of the leaky vaccines in the long term. It is not stopping adequately further spreading. Delta is stronger than Alpha and with higher viral loads and also many vaccinated are getting very sick and dying. The leaky vaccine creates an artificial evolutionary pathway to the virus.

We'll see if this is happening with the next wave, what kind of virus version is dominant.

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

With Marek disease with relatively low mortality rate the chicken mega farms started mass vaccinations with similar leaky vaccine in the 1960s and 1970s. With each new chicken generation the virus got stronger and more vicious because the leakiness allowed it to evolve through mutations.

Today, the poultry industry is dependent on the vaccine because an unvaccinated chicken dies within two weeks if put together with vaccinated chickens, because of shedding of that lethal virus. Mortality rate 100 percent among unvaccinated. What is more worrying they have to keep developing that vaccine to keep up with the race.

That kind of phenomena could be happening with Covid-19. Why to get vaccinated if it only makes it evolve into much more dangerous because of the leaky vaccines in the long term. It is not stopping adequately further spreading. Delta is stronger than Alpha and with higher viral loads and also many vaccinated are getting very sick and dying. The leaky vaccine creates an artificial evolutionary pathway to the virus.

We'll see if this is happening with the next wave, what kind of virus version is dominant.

Factually wrong, as usual.

In Marek's disease, the vaccine actually limits shredding and limits horizontal spread of the virus.

It also has a completely different pathway than Covid, creating tumors.

It has no relation with what we see with Covid, but just a story to attempt to put people off vaccination.

You've been informed countless times that vaccines don't cause mutations. That happens much more in unvaccinated subjects. All the more reason to get a jab!

[palooka]

6 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

We'll see if this is happening with the next wave, what kind of virus version is dominant.

Seems there is a new one "Botswana Variant" 3 cases in Botswana and one case already in Hong Kong.

New Botswana variant with 32 ‘horrific’ mutations is the most evolved Covid strain EVER | Express Digest

Reported on a few other sites as well.

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

Just now, Bob20 said:

You've been informed countless times that vaccines don't cause mutations. That happens much more in unvaccinated subjects. All the more reason to get a jab!

As usual, you try to pose yourself as an expert of all things.

"Marek's disease (MD) is a lymphoproliferative disease of chickens that, in the absence of control measures, is capable of causing devastating losses in commercial poultry flocks. MD has been successfully controlled by vaccination since 1968. However, vaccine efficacy has decreased concomitantly with the increase in virulence of Marek's disease virus (MDV). The constant evolution of MDV has forced the development of new vaccines or vaccine strategies that control the more virulent emergent strains. However, this race between the introduction of new vaccines and the evolution of MDV represents a major threat for the poultry industry. In addition to vaccination, other factors might have contributed to the evolution of MDV (intensive methods of chicken production, early exposure of the chickens to MDV and administration of vaccines at very low doses). From all the possible factors influencing MDV evolution, the effect of vaccination has received the greatest attention."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18773529/

 

[Bob20]

Just now, palooka said:

Seems there is a new one "Botswana Variant" 3 cases in Botswana and one case already in Hong Kong.

New Botswana variant with 32 ‘horrific’ mutations is the most evolved Covid strain EVER | Express Digest

Reported on a few other sites as well.

Yes, the one from HK came from South Africa too. But it's limited in number and spread for now. Fingers crossed.

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

As usual, you try to pose yourself as an expert of all things.

"Marek's disease (MD) is a lymphoproliferative disease of chickens that, in the absence of control measures, is capable of causing devastating losses in commercial poultry flocks. MD has been successfully controlled by vaccination since 1968. However, vaccine efficacy has decreased concomitantly with the increase in virulence of Marek's disease virus (MDV). The constant evolution of MDV has forced the development of new vaccines or vaccine strategies that control the more virulent emergent strains. However, this race between the introduction of new vaccines and the evolution of MDV represents a major threat for the poultry industry. In addition to vaccination, other factors might have contributed to the evolution of MDV (intensive methods of chicken production, early exposure of the chickens to MDV and administration of vaccines at very low doses). From all the possible factors influencing MDV evolution, the effect of vaccination has received the greatest attention."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18773529/

So you know how to copy and paste

A) you don't address that what I said discredits your first message

B) it has zero relevance to covid 

C) it is wildly off topic

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

2 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

So you know how to copy and paste

A) you don't address that what I said discredits your first message

B) it has zero relevance to covid 

C) it is wildly off topic

As usual, you are wrong.

"“With the hottest strains, every unvaccinated bird dies within 10 days. There is no human virus that is that hot. Ebola, for example, doesn’t kill everything in 10 days.”

In fact, rather than stop fowl from spreading the virus, the vaccine allows the disease to spread faster and longer than it normally would, a new study finds. The scientists now believe that this vaccine has helped this chicken virus become uniquely virulent. (Note: it only harms fowl). The study was published on Monday in the journal PLOS Biology.

This is the first time that this virus-boosting phenomenon, known as the imperfect vaccine hypothesis, has been observed experimentally."

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

 

 

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

As usual, you are wrong.

"“With the hottest strains, every unvaccinated bird dies within 10 days. There is no human virus that is that hot. Ebola, for example, doesn’t kill everything in 10 days.”

In fact, rather than stop fowl from spreading the virus, the vaccine allows the disease to spread faster and longer than it normally would, a new study finds. The scientists now believe that this vaccine has helped this chicken virus become uniquely virulent. (Note: it only harms fowl). The study was published on Monday in the journal PLOS Biology.

This is the first time that this virus-boosting phenomenon, known as the imperfect vaccine hypothesis, has been observed experimentally."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

As I said, wildly off topic with not a hint of a relation to covid and not worth spending more time on. It's reported.

Enjoy your day googling things to sling into the wrong debate.

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

Just now, Bob20 said:

As I said, wildly off topic with not a hint of a relation to covid and not worth spending more time on. It's reported.

Enjoy your day googling things to sling into the wrong debate.

First, you said there is no such thing (virus-boosting) but now you say it cannot happen with Covid. Based on what? We have already Delta that is overcoming the vaccine protection in some people. Is it boosting the virus or not? We do not know yet conclusively but it is a possibility.

[Smithydog]

Hi Members,

A rebuttal of the thread topic was provided that used an example of another disease to illustrate a point. Responses have been permitted as civil rebuttal is permitted.

However, we now seem to be more concentrating more on the other disease than the subject. It looks like an interesting conversation but better served under its own Topic.

So let's move back to the actual Thread topic if we can, please. Happy to create a separate topic if you wish to discuss the merits or otherwise with the other disease, though I am now worried about my farm chickens... thanks!

Moderator