News Forum - Thailand’s Health Ministry vows to get tough with people who won’t get vaccinated

[NCC1701A]

welcome to the village Number Six.

[Stonker]

59 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

But you have an internet connection,  to report to thaigerforum.  I don’t buy it. Thai healthcare is pretty far reaching. People routinely travel to town for supplies and to get healthcare. Vaccines are part of healthcare. However, some people don’t want a vaccination and could claim they aren’t available.

Agreed.

I simply don't find it credible that healthcare is so much better in Loei, which isn't exactly the centre of the world or a medical hub, than it is in Kalasin when the villages are no further away from schools, markets and district health centres, and the population density in Loei is 61 people per sq km, at 68th one of the least densely populated provinces in Thailand, while in Kalasin it's 142 people per sq km, more than double that, at 29th.

[JohninDublin]

9 hours ago, Russell said:

I do hope that this government is going to accept the responsibility for their stuff ups over the distribution of the vaccines and the heavy handed attitude that they are taking with the people who are not anti-vaxxers but people who are still waiting for their 1st vaccine injections that they ordered and paid for months ago while this government rejected a donation from America of over 1 million doses of Moderna and then when the first delivery of Moderna was delivered it was only half the order and a lot of it was taken by this government for the army officers and a lot is being held by the Thai Red Cross to administer to anyone over 70 as a 3rd booster shot instead of getting it out to the people who are still waiting for their 1st shot. As for just taking any vaccine then my answer to that is a big "NO" because of personal family experience where my wife's 21 year old daughter who is a uni student was forced by the university to have an alternative vaccine from what she had ordered and paid for and as a result she was vaccinated with AZ supplied by the university last Thursday and at 07:00 on Friday morning we had her in the hospital with severe side affects and by 14:00 she was in ICU in a coma and it was found that she had blood clots from the vaccine injection. She came out of the coma at about 10:00 on Saturday and the doctor told us that it was lucky that we brought her into the hospital early on Friday morning or there would be a good possibility the she would be dead, thanks to being forced to take AZ. On Sunday the doctor told the whole family that under no circumstances are they to have AZ vaccine as it is still unknown if there could be a genetic link that if anyone in the family has an AZ injection then they could easily have very serious side affects which could lead to death. There is no test that can be taken to see if you will contract blood clots before that vaccine is injected into your body.

It really is outrageous to read your post.

For months, the medical profession has been aware of the link between blood clots, AZ and under 30's, and this has already produced one likely fatality in TH. AFAIK, in the west, it is now clearly contra-indicated for under 30's in most countries, with some even raising the age limit to 40 and above. Yet somehow, they still managed to jab someone who is clearly under-age. Unbelievable!

Then they wonder why there is increasing concern about vaxxing in TH? Maybe they should be more worried about the doctors than the vax.

[JohninDublin]

9 hours ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

This is backed by the fact the VAERS system is flooding with reports,

VAERS does not back any claims. It is a collection of reports that can be made by anybody. There have been reports on VAERS of the vax being held responsible for a gunshot wound and a herpes infection. Neither of those have been proved. But why we should be particularly wary of relying on anything that VAERS has reported to it, is because of the litigiousness of ambulance chasing lawyers.

[Malc-Thai]

23 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Agreed.

I simply don't find it credible that healthcare is so much better in Loei, which isn't exactly the centre of the world or a medical hub, than it is in Kalasin when the villages are no further away from schools, markets and district health centres, and the population density in Loei is 61 people per sq km, at 68th one of the least densely populated provinces in Thailand, while in Kalasin it's 142 people per sq km, more than double that, at 29th.

In fairness when I lived 2 years in a village near kalamassai in kalasin the health authority only came 1 time to check people in the village for diabetes.. they needed to travel to kalasin or roi-et to the hospitals there.. most would travel in a motorbike with side cage or by rice field rotorvator with a cart behind .. or if lucky a friend may drive them.. but the health authority visits were very few and far between.

[Stonker]

 

31 minutes ago, Malc-Thai said:

In fairness when I lived 2 years in a village near kalamassai in kalasin the health authority only came 1 time to check people in the village for diabetes.. they needed to travel to kalasin or roi-et to the hospitals there.. most would travel in a motorbike with side cage or by rice field rotorvator with a cart behind .. or if lucky a friend may drive them.. but the health authority visits were very few and far between.

The same would have been true in Loei ten or so years ago, but not for a good while. I simply find it very hard to believe that with more than twice the population density Kalasin is any worse off than Loei.

I also noticed that Kalamassai has its own hospital , which I'm absolutely sure is capable of giving vaccinations - the photos were taken in 2015 so it's evidently been open for a while.

[Faraday]

7 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

It really is outrageous to read your post.

For months, the medical profession has been aware of the link between blood clots, AZ and under 30's, and this has already produced one likely fatality in TH. AFAIK, in the west, it is now clearly contra-indicated for under 30's in most countries, with some even raising the age limit to 40 and above. Yet somehow, they still managed to jab someone who is clearly under-age. Unbelievable!

Then they wonder why there is increasing concern about vaxxing in TH? Maybe they should be more worried about the doctors than the vax.

What about the rest of his excellent post?

[JohninDublin]

15 minutes ago, Faraday said:

What about the rest of his excellent post?

And what about it? How often have you raised similar questions with other members? Is there some rule that requires that I make a minimum quota of words to a post? What would you have said, if I had only given him a thumbs up? 

I'm not sure what the intent is behind your post, but I do have my suspicions. During the meantime, you are to be congratulated for asking a question that raised more questions and no answers.

[Soidog]

9 hours ago, Stonker said:

while the UK only has 223 NHS Trust hospitals with only 123 operating Type 1 A&E departments.

Sorry that is incorrect data. England alone has 180 Type 1 consultant lead A&E  departments. 
A further 30 major consultant lead A&E departments exist in Scotland although the total number locations offering A&E is 90. 
Then there are Wales Northern Ireland to add to those numbers for the U.K.   hence 123 is a significant under estimation. The real number is more likely around 250. 
 

[Malc-Thai]

8 hours ago, Stonker said:

The same would have been true in Loei ten or so years ago, but not for a good while. I simply find it very hard to believe that with more than twice the population density Kalasin is any worse off than Loei.

I also noticed that Kalamassai has its own hospital , which I'm absolutely sure is capable of giving vaccinations - the photos were taken in 2015 so it's evidently been open for a while.

Yes forgot about kalamasai hospital the ex gf mother and father went there for a tb test and it took 10 hours from arrival to test with results a few days later and in fairness I've not lived there for 4.5 years now.. I still keep in touch with the ex's niece and she had her first shot of AZ about 2 weeks ago and the rest of the family are still waiting for their first.. I don't know much more on that or reasons why 

[Faraday]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

And what about it? How often have you raised similar questions with other members? Is there some rule that requires that I make a minimum quota of words to a post? What would you have said, if I had only given him a thumbs up? 

I'm not sure what the intent is behind your post, but I do have my suspicions. During the meantime, you are to be congratulated for asking a question that raised more questions and no answers.

You commented that his 'post was outrageous', thus - in my opinion denigrating all of it, which was excellent.

Yes, I do comment on other members posts.

No, I don't have any 'intent', as you put it.

Calm down, get some sleep, Johnny.

Thanks for the congrats. Most appreciated.

 

[JohninDublin]

5 minutes ago, Faraday said:

You commented that his 'post was outrageous', thus - in my opinion denigrating all of it, which was excellent.

Yes, I do comment on other members posts.

No, I don't have any 'intent', as you put it.

Calm down, get some sleep, Johnny.

Thanks for the congrats. Most appreciated.

I would have thought that as you read my post, it was obvious that what was outrageous, was that knowing that AZ was contra-indicated for someone in that age range, she was still given it. The outrage was compounded by the fact that there had already been a recent fatality in similar circumstances in TH.

[AussieBob]

No doubt about it - the Junta has screwed up the vaccination processes worse than any other 'modern' Government I am aware of. Besides not moving quickly, because of 'negotiations' and potential 'profits' from being the Hub of AZ production (and new infections were low in number), they then decided to rush ahead and vaccinate people in Bangkok and Phuket, before doing the others.  So now the Junta has people in Bangkok and Phuket who are being given 'booster' shots of the 'good' vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna), before people in the villages (10s of millions) are still waiting for their first shots. Some have said that the Junta looked after their wealthier mates/voters first, and did not care about rural Thai people - and does not all the time.

So after totally screwing up the vaccine rollout, the Junta (via their Bureaucrats) are warning people to get vaccinated 'or else'. There is no way the people of Thailand are going to forget what this Government has done - the outcome of the elections in 2023 are going to be a turning point in the politics of Thailand for the next few decades - one way or the other. 

[gummy]

37 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

No doubt about it - the Junta has screwed up the vaccination processes worse than any other 'modern' Government I am aware of. Besides not moving quickly, because of 'negotiations' and potential 'profits' from being the Hub of AZ production (and new infections were low in number), they then decided to rush ahead and vaccinate people in Bangkok and Phuket, before doing the others.  So now the Junta has people in Bangkok and Phuket who are being given 'booster' shots of the 'good' vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna), before people in the villages (10s of millions) are still waiting for their first shots. Some have said that the Junta looked after their wealthier mates/voters first, and did not care about rural Thai people - and does not all the time.

So after totally screwing up the vaccine rollout, the Junta (via their Bureaucrats) are warning people to get vaccinated 'or else'. There is no way the people of Thailand are going to forget what this Government has done - the outcome of the elections in 2023 are going to be a turning point in the politics of Thailand for the next few decades - one way or the other. 

Let's hope that the Thai people never ever forget what how this lousy government has treated them, nor ever forget those non Thais who did, and still do,  support them either. Their duplicity should be condemned.

[Shark]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

No doubt about it - the Junta has screwed up the vaccination processes worse than any other 'modern' Government I am aware of. Besides not moving quickly, because of 'negotiations' and potential 'profits' from being the Hub of AZ production (and new infections were low in number), they then decided to rush ahead and vaccinate people in Bangkok and Phuket, before doing the others.  So now the Junta has people in Bangkok and Phuket who are being given 'booster' shots of the 'good' vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna), before people in the villages (10s of millions) are still waiting for their first shots. Some have said that the Junta looked after their wealthier mates/voters first, and did not care about rural Thai people - and does not all the time.

So after totally screwing up the vaccine rollout, the Junta (via their Bureaucrats) are warning people to get vaccinated 'or else'. There is no way the people of Thailand are going to forget what this Government has done - the outcome of the elections in 2023 are going to be a turning point in the politics of Thailand for the next few decades - one way or the other. 

To be honest, this 3rd shot or booster so far has only been available for/to double Sinovac vaccinated and proof in the world is that many vaccines and not only Covid19 think Tetanus Vaccination for example it in Thailand also comes in 3 doses and has been proven more effective then in countries where just 2 doses are admitted.

The rest of the world is already getting ready for 3rd booster which if all is right should be good for 1+ year.
We were dreaming about a vaccine that covered Flu and Covid19 this now appears to be here with Molnupiravir which will be a pill and therefore has a bigger success rate in Thailand.

 

Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02783-1

Edited November 24, 2021 by Shark

[Stardust]

12 hours ago, Bob20 said:

I had my jabs, but CM has been in a dire situation for some 6 weeks and that's not because people were offered a vaccine.

Appointments were cancelled and people were messed about. The places where vaccination was advertised were nearly always closed as very few doses actually arrived.

The fact that first it was claimed that CM had 70% vaccination rate and was ready to open on 1 October, and then -after- it went wrong, all of a sudden 700.000 doses were promised, shows that the 70% claim was incorrect to begin with and not enough had been provided.

The last day of the vaccination"drive" was 15 November and even then they still administered some with Sinovac as a first jab even though they know it doesn't protect and people aren't safe until they get their second jab (AZ) from December up to February time.

Happy for you that it worked out. Happy for me that I got the jabs too. Not through a call, even though I was registered with expatvac, but through a tip on this forum. But it clearly didn't work for many in CM, and I'm worried for them for the fallout from Loy Kratong...

Not only in CM and many other places they sent people home without their first shot.

[AussieBob]

43 minutes ago, Shark said:

To be honest, this 3rd shot or booster so far has only been available for/to double Sinovac vaccinated and proof in the world is that many vaccines and not only Covid19 think Tetanus Vaccination for example it in Thailand also comes in 3 doses and has been proven more effective then in countries where just 2 doses are admitted.

The rest of the world is already getting ready for 3rd booster which if all is right should be good for 1+ year.
We were dreaming about a vaccine that covered Flu and Covid19 this now appears to be here with Molnupiravir which will be a pill and therefore has a bigger success rate in Thailand.

Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02783-1

I hear you @Shark, but that Molnupiravir drug is only for the treatment of a Covid infection - it does not reduce infections like a vaccine does/should.  But it is a great step forward in treatment, and there will be many more over the coming years - and eventually there will be a single dose vaccine that works extremely well (unlikely to ever be 100%). 

[Shark]

6 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I hear you @Shark, but that Molnupiravir drug is only for the treatment of a Covid infection - it does not reduce infections like a vaccine does/should.  But it is a great step forward in treatment, and there will be many more over the coming years - and eventually there will be a single dose vaccine that works extremely well (unlikely to ever be 100%). 

Look @AussieBob, I'm still realistically optimistic, but can only be optimistic if more and more people are getting vaccinated - As current numbers in Thailand are simply not sufficient. That the ministry wants to act upon this makes all the sense in the world. Mandatory vaccinations for a free life - If you don't want to vaccinate you'll have restrictions which is your choice then.

I'm also not that optimistic that it will cover 100% but at-least enough that the virus mutates itself out of existence.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Shark

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Sorry that is incorrect data. England alone has 180 Type 1 consultant lead A&E  departments. 
A further 30 major consultant lead A&E departments exist in Scotland although the total number locations offering A&E is 90. 
Then there are Wales Northern Ireland to add to those numbers for the U.K.   hence 123 is a significant under estimation. The real number is more likely around 250. 
 

I don't want to veer too far off topic so I checked the figures with direct sources rather than the reported ones as I had done previously.

Regrettably they don't agree exactly with either of us, but they're far closer to my figures than yours and none show that "England alone has 180 Type 1 consultant lead A&E  departments". The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care gave the figure for April 2021 as 126 in a written reply to a House of Commons question.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/urgent-emergency-care/urgent-and-emergency-care-mythbusters

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/addresses_of_major_type_1_ae_dep_2 (NHS Digital)

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-05-12/601/

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/07/AE-Attendances-Emergency-Definitions-v4.0-final-July-2019.pdf

I doubt they're all wrong.

... and FWIW all Type 1 A&E departments are consultant led - that's what makes them Type 1.

In hindsight, a far better comparison on my part would have been to compare Types 3 and 4 A&E Departments, Urgent Care Centres and Minor injury Units in the UK, open and available on a 24 hour basis, with Thai State Hospital A&E Departments as they're far more similar.

 

 

[Stonker]

12 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

AFAIK, in the west, it is now clearly contra-indicated for under 30's in most countries, with some even raising the age limit to 40 and above.

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I would have thought that as you read my post, it was obvious that what was outrageous, was that knowing that AZ was contra-indicated for someone in that age range, she was still given it.

 

Different countries have different views on whether AZ is "contra-indicated for under 30's", including in the West, and the only countries that have decided that the dangers outweigh the benefits have been those that had alternatives such as Moderna and Pfizer available at the time.

Thailand didn't so, to be fair, medically it was the correct decision and anything but "outrageous". Whether Thailand could or should have had those vaccines is a completely different argument.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57021738

[LoongFred]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

Let's hope that the Thai people never ever forget what how this lousy government has treated them, nor ever forget those non Thais who did, and still do,  support them either. Their duplicity should be condemned.

I'm not a fan of the military government, but except for underestimates at the beginning they have done ok. The Thai Public Health department gets high marks.

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, Malc-Thai said:

Yes forgot about kalamasai hospital the ex gf mother and father went there for a tb test and it took 10 hours from arrival to test with results a few days later and in fairness I've not lived there for 4.5 years now.. I still keep in touch with the ex's niece and she had her first shot of AZ about 2 weeks ago and the rest of the family are still waiting for their first.. I don't know much more on that or reasons why 

The hospital looks very similar to my local hospital in Loei.  I find a 10 hour wait "from arrival to test" hard to understand as if they'd arrived at opening time the testing staff would have all gone home by that time, so they must have arrived at night! I have routine blood tests in my hospital every year and every time they change any medication to check any effect on liver or kidney function, and I've never waited more than an hour for the tests and the results are back within an hour - the one criticism common to all the reviews and comments on the Kalamasai hospital are lengthy waiting times, though.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Shark said:

The rest of the world is already getting ready for 3rd booster which if all is right should be good for 1+ year.

I tend to agree with your posts, particularly in this thread, but to be fair "The rest of the world"  ISN'T "getting ready for 3rd booster" although some Western countries are.

46% of the world haven't even had their first dose, and only 42% are fully vaccinated. Less than 3% have had a third dose / booster.

[Malc-Thai]

5 minutes ago, Stonker said:

The hospital looks very similar to my local hospital in Loei.  I find a 10 hour wait "from arrival to test" hard to understand as if they'd arrived at opening time the testing staff would have all gone home by that time, so they must have arrived at night! I have routine blood tests in my hospital every year and every time they change any medication to check any effect on liver or kidney function, and I've never waited more than an hour for the tests and the results are back within an hour - the one criticism common to all the reviews and comments on the Kalamasai hospital are lengthy waiting times, though.

They had to go at 6 am and check in to get a number.. then wait until 9am start times, so in theory 3 hours early to just get a ticket number but I have no idea why such a long time.. I just remember when they came back hungry and angry from the wait..

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Shark said:

To be honest, this 3rd shot or booster so far has only been available for/to double Sinovac vaccinated and proof in the world is that many vaccines and not only Covid19 think Tetanus Vaccination for example it in Thailand also comes in 3 doses and has been proven more effective then in countries where just 2 doses are admitted.

Agreed 100% there - it's simply not known yet whether these will be boosters or how many are required, and as you say (and I've said frequently!) you need multiple tetanus shots - generally five DTaP and a Tdap booster, and one every ten years.

There's just no possible way of knowing yet.