News Forum - Mask up! Foreign visitors warned of penalties for violating disease control laws

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, PfizerModernaJohnson said:

You believe their numbers ? LoL

I don't believe in the exactitude of the numbers, but I do believe that the trend is overwhelmingly downward in Asia, and the opposite is true of Asia. I would add that I do totally disbelieve the figures from China and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that my suspicions are real.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to say, but if it is that case numbers in Asia are per capita no different from Europe, then you are in effect saying, that Asia is only declaring 5% of all cases. Considering that possibility I note that the trend in Asia is fairly consistent, and there are no consistently amazing outliers in these figures. That is what I would expect to find in the circumstances. Rates are declining fairly evenly across the whole continent. There are several liberal democracies within Asia. If there was a scale of fraud to the extent that they were hiding 95 cases, I am pretty sure that we would be seeing reports in the media or from whistleblowers from multiple countries, especially as most of them will also have western correspondents. The fact that we are not hearing such noises leads me to believe that there is little seriously wrong with the figures.

The thing that I find laughable about your post, and those who make similar comments, is they can never furnish an alternative number and the reasons for that number. 

[petermach]

it is not problem of Thailand , it is problem of common sense regarding a planetary pandemic problem. A new wave of COVID is coming and perhaps will affect Thailand. With in hindsight we know that the Mask is very efficient . It is also very urgent that authorities  put in place a sanitary pass which must be controlled in every public place.

[MrNovax]

22 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

So looking at the 7 day figures from Europe and Asia, there have been respectively 2.3 mill and 600k new infections. Europe's population is 1/6th that of Asia. Europe has very few restrictions. Asia has maintained most of theirs.

How about looking at the UK graph which shows that as soon as they introduced border controls, the new cases fell in a matter of weeks from 5k to nearer 500 a day? Then they started to increase a couple of months later and as more stringent measures were introduced, they reduced from 30k a day to 13k in under three months. Then Bojo decided that he didn't want to spoil people's Xmas, so he dropped most of these. Over the next 4 weeks, the rate went to 50k+ plus a day at which stage restrictions were reintroduced. Eventually they peaked a week later at 68k. During the meantime, vaxxing started to kick in and three months later by April 1st, the figures were in the 4k range. Things remained steady for a while, and then along came Delta. We then see the figures start to rise quite rapidly, during which time, Bojo dumped most of the restrictions, and now we are seeing over 40k cases a day. That pattern is fairly often repeated throughout Europe with the "waves" oscillating in sync with the level of restrictions, vaxxing etc. 

Have you noticed that each time that the restrictions are eased in the UK, how numbers shoot up, and when they are reintroduced, the numbers decline? Have you noticed how most of Europe has dropped most of it's restrictions and the numbers have shot up, while the opposite is true of Asia. Rightly or wrongly, there is a clear pattern here, and in the absence of you offering alternative credible explanations, I am going to rely on these. 

There have been times where the restrictions and mask mandates have lined up, and there have been times when the numbers were completely the opposite of what "the experts" would have predicted.  Here's a fun exercise, try this

quiz https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/

Section 4 is about Europe and sees if you can place where the mask mandate was enacted.  id be very curious of your results 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by MrNovax

[Bob20]

17 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

There have been times where the restrictions and mask mandates have lined up, and there have been times when the numbers were completely the opposite of what "the experts" would have predicted.  Here's a fun exercise, try this

quiz https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/

Section 4 is about Europe and sees if you can place where the mask mandate was enacted.  id be very curious of your results 

Off by average 42 days

Problem with these things is that it focuses on only one aspect of the total measures, whereas the actual graph is the result of complex multifactorial interactions.

Same as how JID compares Asia to Europe and sees congruities, but if you go back one year, they were virtual opposites. Because you simply can't compare totally different situations (compliance, used vaccines, climate and a hundred more factors that differ between countries).

Still fun though! Thanks.

[JohninDublin]

30 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

There have been times where the restrictions and mask mandates have lined up, and there have been times when the numbers were completely the opposite of what "the experts" would have predicted.  Here's a fun exercise, try this

quiz https://www.covidchartsquiz.com/

Section 4 is about Europe and sees if you can place where the mask mandate was enacted.  id be very curious of your results 

I am not here to cater to your curiosity, because I am well aware of your agenda.

[MrNovax]

26 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I am not here to cater to your curiosity, because I am well aware of your agenda.

In other words, there is no way to distinguish between between areas who have masked up vs not masked up and areas that have locked down compared to those who haven't.  

 

[MrNovax]

36 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Off by average 42 days

Problem with these things is that it focuses on only one aspect of the total measures, whereas the actual graph is the result of complex multifactorial interactions.

Same as how JID compares Asia to Europe and sees congruities, but if you go back one year, they were virtual opposites. Because you simply can't compare totally different situations (compliance, used vaccines, climate and a hundred more factors that differ between countries).

Still fun though! Thanks.

Yea, there are certainly other factors beyond the one being "quizzed on".  And just like different areas of the world have different considerations, so do individual people.  I am not against people wearing masks if they choose, or vaccinating if they'd like.  My point is enacting one size fits all policies is foolish.  

[Bob20]

6 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

Yea, there are certainly other factors beyond the one being "quizzed on".  And just like different areas of the world have different considerations, so do individual people.  I am not against people wearing masks if they choose, or vaccinating if they'd like.  My point is enacting one size fits all policies is foolish.  

In an ideal world...

But when you're dealing with large numbers of people, let alone whole nations or in this case the whole world, you can't create individual rules for some and hope to maintain them.

[JohninDublin]

41 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

In other words, there is no way to distinguish between between areas who have masked up vs not masked up and areas that have locked down compared to those who haven't.  

Trying to put words in my mouth, does nothing for the paucity of your argument. I haven't looked and I don't intend to for the reason I've already given. 

[MikeTexas]

So everyone says follow the rules but where are the actual regulations posted online?  At one point in 2020 the Minstry of Health came out and said not to wear one while running or cycling unless in a group.  It took about 3 weeks before that trickled down to the local police.  I would think that all of this is published somewhere but nobody ever links to it in their stories - they just include a lot of official quotes which isn't as helpful.

[oldschooler]

Peoples who behave uniformly will tend to be judged uniformly ( e.g. Chinese, Indians, Thais) especially when uniform group behavior can often be quite bad ( Japanese for example are excepted). Westerners are not uniform, do not behave as such, so should be judged individually, as in fact should everyone initially, but when such judgement is bad, the justified group stereotypes invariably emerge as default. 

Therefore “foreigners” not being uniform should not be uniformly singled out as a single group by govt.here. Fuels and reaffirms proven thai xenophobic practices and cuts across thai tourism promotion. As does frequent observed police shakedown of tourists on motorbikes here in Phuket and return of taxi mafia.Word gets around virally fast. 

Not foreigners fault that so many thais, even in tourist areas, still refuse to vaccinate or have only received Sinovac with very low efficacy against Delta.Nor can foreign (western) visitors, fully vaccinated with western vax, catch covid here nor transmit it to thais, or other foreigners, in any life- threatening way. 

However, foreigners from Russia and Hong Kong for example are vaxxed with non- western vax so largely unprotected by their vax against catching and transmitting Delta. Healthy Immune Systems notwithstanding.Politically,but not medically,  Sinovac has had to be accepted here.

And yesterday ten Patong Bangla Bars closed for 3 days after covid cluster outbreak ,including two deaths, amongst thais. Phuket has been near fully Open (no dancing girls yet) in the tourist areas since 1Nov so some correlation but unknown causality.

Reasonable Doubt exists of course as to whether wearing standard cloth masks or std. distancing has any significant medical impact. And is clearly unworkable and impractical in dedicated intense Tourist Redlight Zones like Patong Bangla.

[Pinetree]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:09 PM, Stonker said:

No, not "targeted" but reminded.

I don't see many farangs here, dirty or otherwise, but the only people I've seen not wearing masks are always farangs - only a handful, but still the only ones and enough to let all others down.

If you're not prepared to obey the rules here, whatever they are and whether you like them or not, then either don't come or leave.

well said

[Pinetree]

4 hours ago, MikeTexas said:

So everyone says follow the rules but where are the actual regulations posted online?  At one point in 2020 the Minstry of Health came out and said not to wear one while running or cycling unless in a group.  It took about 3 weeks before that trickled down to the local police.  I would think that all of this is published somewhere but nobody ever links to it in their stories - they just include a lot of official quotes which isn't as helpful.

ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Plenty of information on the Gov websites. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Pinetree

[Pinetree]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:21 PM, atiger said:

I've seen many Thai's without masks in public including police, why the racist comments targeting foreigners?

I for one have not

[Stonker]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:21 PM, atiger said:

I've seen many Thai's without masks in public including police, why the racist comments targeting foreigners?

Given that there are some 70 milliion Thais here, and a lot less than one percent of that number of farangs, do you think Thais are as guilty of not wearing masks as farangs?

Seriously?

[MikeTexas]

8 hours ago, Pinetree said:

ignorance of the rules is no excuse. Plenty of information on the Gov websites. 

I agree that the rules should be followed but your response is exactly the problem to which I was addressing.  Everybody says follow the rules but never points to where they can be found.  While ignorance of the rules is never an excuse, making it hard for foreigners to navigate the rules doesn't aid the situation (addressed below).  A person traveling to a country should know the laws of that country.  On the flip side of that argument, a country completely dependent on tourism should strive to make travel as easy as possible for tourist in order to attract more tourist.   

The problem isn't just for tourist though.  As an example, In 2020 the Ministry of health said not to wear a mask when exercising vigorously, however this was only a recommendation.  Most provinces followed this guidance but that was before Thailand was faced with a large COVID problem.  The official guidance stated that it was up to each province to determine their guidelines.  Phuket officially states that  a mask isn't required during exercise but must be worn immediately before and after.  Other provinces do not publish their guidance, or if they do,  it is not readily found by most people.  This problem was actually addressed on the Government's twitter account (below).  When the individual provinces were contacted they gave no response!  Of course there is the video of the Thai lady exercising by herself on the beach that went viral.  So not just tourist have a problem understanding the rules.  

Given the small size of Thailand (less than 74% the size of Texas) travelling through multiple provinces is not difficult. I spent most of 2020 praising how well Thailand had handled the pandemic - especially compared to America.  The country appear to have a centralized voice at the time which was key to people understanding what was expected of them.  There were small cracks in the plan hear and there but it seemed very good.

Now I realize it wasn't that they handled it well, rather it was that the country hadn't been faced with a larger problem up to that point.  Once the pandemic firmly rooted itself Thailand showed to have the same problems and shortcomings as most of the other countries that had been battling the virus.  In a country as small as Thailand it would have been every easy to have the central government set all the rules instead of leaving it up to the individual provinces and thus creating the potential for 77 different sets of rules.

So I challenge you....since all the information is readily available.  Given the disparity between what the provinces follow and the official recommendation of the health ministry, provide the links to the official rules on mask wearing and for mask wearing while exercising for the top 5 tourist destination (since that is where most tourist will spend their time) - Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Surat Thani, and Krabi.  I'll be very happy if you make me wrong and can easily do this.

[Pinetree]

12 hours ago, MikeTexas said:

I agree that the rules should be followed but your response is exactly the problem to which I was addressing.  Everybody says follow the rules but never points to where they can be found.  While ignorance of the rules is never an excuse, making it hard for foreigners to navigate the rules doesn't aid the situation (addressed below).  A person traveling to a country should know the laws of that country.  On the flip side of that argument, a country completely dependent on tourism should strive to make travel as easy as possible for tourist in order to attract more tourist.   

The problem isn't just for tourist though.  As an example, In 2020 the Ministry of health said not to wear a mask when exercising vigorously, however this was only a recommendation.  Most provinces followed this guidance but that was before Thailand was faced with a large COVID problem.  The official guidance stated that it was up to each province to determine their guidelines.  Phuket officially states that  a mask isn't required during exercise but must be worn immediately before and after.  Other provinces do not publish their guidance, or if they do,  it is not readily found by most people.  This problem was actually addressed on the Government's twitter account (below).  When the individual provinces were contacted they gave no response!  Of course there is the video of the Thai lady exercising by herself on the beach that went viral.  So not just tourist have a problem understanding the rules.  

Given the small size of Thailand (less than 74% the size of Texas) travelling through multiple provinces is not difficult. I spent most of 2020 praising how well Thailand had handled the pandemic - especially compared to America.  The country appear to have a centralized voice at the time which was key to people understanding what was expected of them.  There were small cracks in the plan hear and there but it seemed very good.

Now I realize it wasn't that they handled it well, rather it was that the country hadn't been faced with a larger problem up to that point.  Once the pandemic firmly rooted itself Thailand showed to have the same problems and shortcomings as most of the other countries that had been battling the virus.  In a country as small as Thailand it would have been every easy to have the central government set all the rules instead of leaving it up to the individual provinces and thus creating the potential for 77 different sets of rules.

So I challenge you....since all the information is readily available.  Given the disparity between what the provinces follow and the official recommendation of the health ministry, provide the links to the official rules on mask wearing and for mask wearing while exercising for the top 5 tourist destination (since that is where most tourist will spend their time) - Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Surat Thani, and Krabi.  I'll be very happy if you make me wrong and can easily do this.

Fair comments.  In the Pattaya area, we have had the enormous advantage of Fabulous 103, radio, U Tube and website. They have kept us well informed with accurate updates on rules, vaccines etc throughout.  

[Bluesofa]

21 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Fair comments.  In the Pattaya area, we have had the enormous advantage of Fabulous 103, radio, U Tube and website. They have kept us well informed with accurate updates on rules, vaccines etc throughout.  

Would you have a link to the 103 website regarding mask wearing?

[Pinetree]

4 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

Would you have a link to the 103 website regarding mask wearing?

No, because these have been updated each week on U Tube, but it may be on their website

https://alwayspattaya.com/

Edited November 27, 2021 by Pinetree

[Bluesofa]

13 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

No, because these have been updated each week on U Tube, but it may be on their website

https://alwayspattaya.com/

Thanks for the link.
I can see the news on there, but I can't find anything about Covid rules or mask wearing,

[Pinetree]

Just now, Bluesofa said:

Thanks for the link.
I can see the news on there, but I can't find anything about Covid rules or mask wearing,

Send them an e mail  The boss, Tommy, usually replies 

[Bluesofa]

21 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Send them an e mail  The boss, Tommy, usually replies 

Thanks for the suggestion.
Have done. See if I get a reply.

[Pinetree]

13 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

Thanks for the suggestion.
Have done. See if I get a reply.

let me know please 

[MikeTexas]

19 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Fair comments.  In the Pattaya area, we have had the enormous advantage of Fabulous 103, radio, U Tube and website. They have kept us well informed with accurate updates on rules, vaccines etc throughout.  

Damn, I was actually hoping you would have a source!   Not only would have been beneficial to the public at large but particularly to me.

I was planning on flying in and riding from Hua Hin to Chiang Rai and back in January but there is no way I can ride in the heat while wearing a mask.  The sweat makes them unbreathable.  Last year I kept one in my handlebar bag for when I stopped but I don't want to fly all that way only to find out the ride isn't possible.  

[Bluesofa]

20 hours ago, Pinetree said:

20 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

Thanks for the suggestion.
Have done. See if I get a reply.

let me know please 

It's almost a day since I emailed Pattaya103. No reply yet.

 

1 hour ago, MikeTexas said:

I was planning on flying in and riding from Hua Hin to Chiang Rai and back in January but there is no way I can ride in the heat while wearing a mask.  The sweat makes them unbreathable.  Last year I kept one in my handlebar bag for when I stopped but I don't want to fly all that way only to find out the ride isn't possible. 

I see it's about 1,000 km each way, that's a decent ride!
I cycled around  Issan last year with a friend, that was 800 km in a week. At that point we only put face masks on when interacting with anyone.

I put up with cycling in a mask, but really hope I can find out if I need to or not.
Unfortunately, as we know the response varies from province-to-province, and also policeman-to-policeman in the same district, depending on what they had for lunch or whether they argued with their wife before coming to work.