News Forum - Police say no live ammunition was used against protesters in Bangkok yesterday

[Griff1315]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Have they actually said it was a round which penetrated the guy?

Listening to the video I cant actually hear any small arms fire. What I hear is baton rounds and a guy with a shotgun firing into what appeared to be the road. Now depending on what that shotgun was loaded with it could very well have been that which injured someone.

At this time it's all speculation the trouble is will the truth ever be known as the culprits are likely to be investigating themselves with the usual outcome.

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, Stardust said:

First he doesn't realised that nobody said there was no blood and second it was the doctor who said the bullet went through the lungs and liver. But he can go to the Chulo hospital and tell the doctor he knows it better. I guess they have x ray there. 

You can look at your video - there's no blood on the road and no blood on any of the 'medics'.

A doctor at Chula may well have said what you claim, although so far that's unconfirmed, but there's nothing to connect this video with the alleged casualty at Chula.

Not just not a speck of blood to be seen anywhere, but after the round was fired, unfortunately off camera, rather than immediately move away a bit as would be normal all the hangers-on and wannabe reporters moved closer to get a photo and some selfies and not a single person took cover!

There's simply nothing to indicate or suggest any connection between this incident and the alleged casualty at Chula.

 

[mickkotlarski]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The medics can be clearly seen washing their hands and wrists even though they were wearing nitrile gloves.

Hi RookieScot

After watching this clip several times I made some observations. Going backwards by events.

at 03:22 in the you tube clip somebody shouts out in Thai (torn nee mee luet krap) which means " now there is blood". Even if we can't get a direct visual because of the spectators and hedge looks like there my be some  blood and observers are heard saying it. I'm not a firearms expert but this was definitely a shot aimed at the chest.

at 00:48 there was an additional gun shot. The police reversed in formation but I'm still suspect about the shot. Could not see anybody else holding a firearm. 

At the start of the clip the aim of the officers was not at the legs nor above the head. I pictured two of the officers holding their guns parallel to the pavement.

There is a lot to debate about but I'd like to hear the official medical report. It doesn't make sense for an armed officer to use live rounds when the political situation is so tense. But the victim wasn't just stunned.

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Have they actually said it was a round which penetrated the guy?

Listening to the video I cant actually hear any small arms fire. What I hear is baton rounds and a guy with a shotgun firing into what appeared to be the road. Now depending on what that shotgun was loaded with it could very well have been that which injured someone.

Exactly - if there's such a casualty at Chula, which is perfectly possible, there's nothing at all to suggest any connection with this incident.

FWIW, they use shotguns here, mainly Wingmasters, to fire a variety of rubber bullets. They seldom use FRG's or M79's.

 

[Stardust]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Have they actually said it was a round which penetrated the guy?

Listening to the video I cant actually hear any small arms fire. What I hear is baton rounds and a guy with a shotgun firing into what appeared to be the road. Now depending on what that shotgun was loaded with it could very well have been that which injured someone.

It was in the Thai media the report from the dic not in that vid. But it is only allowed in english so I cannot post it. But maybe someone find it in english, too. The victim is in the Chula hospital and first responder was Dr. Tosaporn. Victim is 23 years old and name or nick name is Apinyo.

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Exactly - if there's such a casualty at Chula, which is perfectly possible, there's nothing at all to suggest any connection with this incident.

FWIW, they use shotguns here, mainly Wingmasters, to fire a variety of rubber bullets. They seldom use FRG's or M79's.

I would like to think any shotguns used here for riot control are loaded with something like beanbags. The actual manufacturer of the weapon is not important in my humble opinion. It could be a Browning BSS for all it matters whats important is what is chambered. 

As I said earlier I dont hear any small arms fire. The guy with the shotgun appears to fire onto the road from what I can see. Now if something got kicked up from the road because of that I have no idea.

It could very well be a complete accident. I do worry however with the angle those policemen seemed to be firing baton rounds. Looked way to high as I see it.

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

I would like to think any shotguns used here for riot control are loaded with something like beanbags. The actual manufacturer of the weapon is not important in my humble opinion. It could be a Browning BSS for all it matters whats important is what is chambered. 

As I said earlier I dont hear any small arms fire. The guy with the shotgun appears to fire onto the road from what I can see. Now if something got kicked up from the road because of that I have no idea.

It could very well be a complete accident. I do worry however with the angle those policemen seemed to be firing baton rounds. Looked way to high as I see it.

I think it was the first shot in closed distance and the victim run and break down on the spot where the ambulance came too. Because there were pics from the victim in the Thai media and you could see he was directly in front of the police and then came the shot . But everyone run away including the filmer and then he filmed a while the police before he registrated the victim on the street.

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Hi RookieScot

After watching this clip several times I made some observations. Going backwards by events.

at 03:22 in the you tube clip somebody shouts out in Thai (torn nee mee luet krap) which means " now there is blood". Even if we can't get a direct visual because of the spectators and hedge looks like there my be some  blood and observers are heard saying it. I'm not a firearms expert but this was definitely a shot aimed at the chest.

at 00:48 there was an additional gun shot. The police reversed in formation but I'm still suspect about the shot. Could not see anybody else holding a firearm. 

At the start of the clip the aim of the officers was not at the legs nor above the head. I pictured two of the officers holding their guns parallel to the pavement.

There is a lot to debate about but I'd like to hear the official medical report. It doesn't make sense for an armed officer to use live rounds when the political situation is so tense. But the victim wasn't just stunned.

The noise at 48 seconds is a baton round mate. And it would appear the casualty was already down before that.

If I had to guess and its purely speculative, the guy discharging something from the shotgun is actually the issue here. And from what I can see in the video I dont believe it was intentional.

[King Cotton]

Thirty replies to this thread, since its publication only three hours ago, says it all. Who does the world believe re the Thai govt's position regarding the wider issue of protests, either against the present regime or the monarchy? Before long, something or other will have to GIVE!

Thai people are getting hurt and, rubber bullets or live rounds, it can only get worse, unless these twerps start to see the light of day . . . regarding 'their' country.

 

[Stonker]

3 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Hi RookieScot

After watching this clip several times I made some observations. Going backwards by events.

at 03:22 in the you tube clip somebody shouts out in Thai (torn nee mee luet krap) which means " now there is blood". Even if we can't get a direct visual because of the spectators and hedge looks like there my be some  blood and observers are heard saying it.

After someone's hit by a rubber bullet there's normally some "blood", but nothing remotely like a bullet wound.

Hit your thumb with a hammer, and after a few seconds you get "blood"!

That simply doesn't compare with an open chest wound, with an exit wound in the back - it's exactly what you'd expect from a rubber bullet, though.

10 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

I'm not a firearms expert but this was definitely a shot aimed at the chest

Sorry, but it doesn't matter if you're an expert or not.  Unless you saw the shot fired and where it was aimed it's obviously impossible for you to know where it was aimed at when fired.

As the shot fired was off camera you can't know and neither can I.

14 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

At the start of the clip the aim of the officers was not at the legs nor above the head. I pictured two of the officers holding their guns parallel to the pavement

Well that's what you aim at when you're trying to deter people and to maintain safety - centre mass.

Nobody's bounced rubber bullets off the floor for over four decades, and nobody aims at lower legs as it seldom works.

19 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

There is a lot to debate about but I'd like to hear the official medical report.

The problem is that so far there's nothing to connect a medical report on a bullet wound with this incident.

I recall a myriad of reports in the media a while ago about one casualty wearing a medic vest, shown in one set of pictures, when the casualty in other pictures, supposedly the same person, was dressed completely differently and it later came out they were totally different people in totally different incidents.

27 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

But the victim wasn't just stunned.

The one thing you can pretty much guarantee if you're hit by a rubber bullet, particularly at close range, is that you won't just be stunned!

[Stardust]

9 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I think it was the first shot in closed distance and the victim run and break down on the spot where the ambulance came too. Because there were pics from the victim in the Thai media and you could see he was directly in front of the police and then came the shot . But everyone run away including the filmer and then he filmed a while the police before he registrated the victim on the street.

By the way there are many videos from the the thai tv where you see it better but is without englush subtitle so you cannot post it here. But for anybody who understand thai it is easy to find.

[Stonker]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I would like to think any shotguns used here for riot control are loaded with something like beanbags. The actual manufacturer of the weapon is not important in my humble opinion. It could be a Browning BSS for all it matters whats important is what is chambered. 

As I said earlier I dont hear any small arms fire. The guy with the shotgun appears to fire onto the road from what I can see. Now if something got kicked up from the road because of that I have no idea.

It could very well be a complete accident. I do worry however with the angle those policemen seemed to be firing baton rounds. Looked way to high as I see it.

Beanbags are seldom used here or by any police force for crowd control from shotguns.

If you can see people actually firing and what they're aiming at when they fire, you're looking at a different video to me!

[Stardust]

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The noise at 48 seconds is a baton round mate. And it would appear the casualty was already down before that.

If I had to guess and its purely speculative, the guy discharging something from the shotgun is actually the issue here. And from what I can see in the video I dont believe it was intentional.

Comon the whole country could watched many videos on the tv and on each it was clearly seen all shooting are intentional. What is your intention for such absurd claims?

[Stonker]

12 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Thirty replies to this thread, since its publication only three hours ago, says it all. Who does the world believe re the Thai govt's position regarding the wider issue of protests, either against the present regime or the monarchy? Before long, something or other will have to GIVE!

Thai people are getting hurt and, rubber bullets or live rounds, it can only get worse, unless these twerps start to see the light of day . . . regarding 'their' country.

Agreed entirely, @King Cotton, absolutely, 100%, but sadly "the world" doesn't seem particularly interested at the moment.

World reaction when the last young man shot at a demo in Bangkok (not by the police, despite initial reports) died was sadly zero.

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Beanbags are seldom used here or by any police force for crowd control from shotguns.

If you can see people actually firing and what they're aiming at when they fire, you're looking at a different video to me!

The shotgun used is painted yellow in several sections. That usually denotes a weapon chambered  for bean bags.

Of course it could also be loaded with some other shell.

The angle the police were firing baton rounds is obvious if you look at the video. 

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Comon the whole country could watched many videos on the tv and on each it was clearly seen all shooting are intentional. What is your intention for such absurd claims?

No I think you need to watch the video again. The guy with the shotgun appears to fire into the road.

[Stardust]

6 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Comon the whole country could watched many videos on the tv and on each it was clearly seen all shooting are intentional. What is your intention for such absurd claims?

Maybe i should explain there are many filming or take pics. The incidents are filmed from many streamer, press etc. I choosed that one because it was without moderation or from the thai tv because of the rules from the forum. So it doesn't mean its the only footage or the best one. But I watched a few on you could see clearly itvwas intentional. They were on the way to the embassy because to the embassy where they give the petition to the delegation and the police you seen wanted to block them the way. They called the police to go and no block the people or bring violence because it was agreed they can give them the petition. This was a peacefull rallie and thats what they told them to these police with the guns and to leave and not create violence. There are the full streams where you see what happened just before what is not seen on this vid. But anybody can find it on youtube.. but sure it is in Thai.

[Stardust]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No I think you need to watch the video again. The guy with the shotgun appears to fire into the road.

It is a bit unclear which gun it was the only what i can say in this stream you could him seen before very closly to the police and making signs to stop that, it is just a cut of a stream and minutes out of a 2 or 3 hours livestream. The problem is the filmer went close to the police too so you could see left and right. My guessing was before the filmer was more behind you could see the victim very close to the police thats why I said must be one of the first shots but not sure it was the shotgun you mention because all of them had guns. But one is sure and the vids you can see they shoot with intension to hit them.

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, mickkotlarski said:

Hi RookieScot

After watching this clip several times I made some observations. Going backwards by events.

at 03:22 in the you tube clip somebody shouts out in Thai (torn nee mee luet krap) which means " now there is blood". Even if we can't get a direct visual because of the spectators and hedge looks like there my be some  blood and observers are heard saying it. I'm not a firearms expert but this was definitely a shot aimed at the chest.

at 00:48 there was an additional gun shot. The police reversed in formation but I'm still suspect about the shot. Could not see anybody else holding a firearm. 

At the start of the clip the aim of the officers was not at the legs nor above the head. I pictured two of the officers holding their guns parallel to the pavement.

There is a lot to debate about but I'd like to hear the official medical report. It doesn't make sense for an armed officer to use live rounds when the political situation is so tense. But the victim wasn't just stunned.

On the thai vids they filmed the victim on the ground and there was many blood on his shirt and soaked with blood. If you understand thai you find them on youtube but you cannot post it here because it is with thai moderation from the tv.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Thats the whole point of plastic/rubber baton rounds. They are too large in caliber and too low in velocity to penetrate a human.

They will kill if used incorrectly and hit you in certain places but the surgeons will not be cutting it out of you.

In the British army we were trained to fire them at the road in front of the protestors. That way it skips up and hits the legs. Getting hit on the shins by one definitely gets your attention and was  accompanied with a shout of "Walk that one off you ****". 

Sorry, I missed that one but that's way, way out of date and went out four decades ago although that was practiced and used then.

Under absolutely NO circumstances are rubber bullets / plastic bullets / baton rounds fired at the ground any more and bounced off to hit the lower legs - it's not only not effective as it doesn't incapacitate and may not even go near the right person as it can't be aimed accurately, but more importantly it's in direct contravention of UN guidelines and agreements which specifically ban it.

Times change!

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

They are treating a puncture wound hence them applying pressure and using field bandages. Kudos to them BTW because they knew exactly how to treat it.

I thought you couldn't see anything because of the damned hedge!

It's impossible to see or know what they're doing, but if they were using "field bandages" on an open / sucking chest wound that's totally wrong as the wound needs sealing, not soaking up blood which very obviously wasn't happening as there's none to be seen!

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

I suggest you google sucking chest wound

As an RMA1 who's also seen a couple I don't need to - I suggest you take your own advice and use Google, though, as you don't seem to understand that i) you need to seal a sucking chest wound, not slap a "field bandage" on it (a plastic bag is far more use) and ii) that if there was an exit wound in the liver area they'd be losing a lot of blood there as it wouldn't just sit in the lungs - the alleged exit wound, which you've overlooked, changes the whole problem.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

The shotgun used is painted yellow in several sections. That usually denotes a weapon chambered  for bean bags.

Of course it could also be loaded with some other shell.

The angle the police were firing baton rounds is obvious if you look at the video. 

Sorry, but you're not only way out of date but there's no such thing as "a weapon that's chambered for beanbags" - the only requirement is that they can take 2.75"

 

and 3" cartridges, and they're usually pump action.

The markings denote no live rounds, not just bean bags but any variety of rubber bullets too.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

The angle the police were firing baton rounds is obvious if you look at the video. 

Obvious for those two rounds (one appears to have been fired over their heads), but apparently those weren't either of the rounds the casualty was hit by.

[Stonker]

49 minutes ago, Stardust said:

But I watched a few on you could see clearly itvwas intentional.

 

41 minutes ago, Stardust said:

it is a bit unclear which gun it was (snip)

Sorry, I don't want to nit-pick, but if it's not even clear who shot him, it can hardly be clear if it was "intentional". 

27 minutes ago, Stardust said:

On the thai vids they filmed the victim on the ground and there was many blood on his shirt and soaked with blood.

Well, it's more than a little odd that there's no sign of any blood on the ground at all in the video here when at the end of the video you can clearly see where he's been lying - unless there's more than one casualty / incident, which is perfectly possible.

[Freeduhdumb]

Weren't the "protesters" given a large cordoned off area to allow their free right of expression? And didn't the "protesters" violate those barricades and advance upon the police? Aren't the police there attempting to keep the peace? What would you do if a mob is advancing upon you?

[vlad]

If there was a protester was shot as claimed you can bet your arse the RTP  will den'y it and blame a lone shooter in the protest group, and for good measure they will say we have video evidence identifying him.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

But one is sure and the vids you can see they shoot with intension to hit them

Well, this is a screenshot taken from that video at the point when one riot gun was being fired - you can see the muzzle flash.

The only thing he could have intended to hit must have been at least 3 or 4 metres tall.