News Forum - Killing off retirement opportunities in Thailand – OPINION

[Thaiger]

OPINION Quite clearly the Government has simply not thought through the impact of the insurance provisions imposed by the Thailand Pass on “budget tourists” and likewise on current and prospective retirees in Thailand. The sobering reality is that it is well nigh impossible for individuals, 70 years and above, to obtain health insurance other than at exorbitant rates. The insurance requirements, USD 50k (1.6m THB), while rational on the surface, will undoubtedly block the backpacker/budget tourist cohort and simultaneously devastate those long-term elderly Non-Resident Visa holding retirees, many of whom live on fixed pensions and have been attracted to remain […]

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[Jberg]

I totally agree with the writer.

[Aidan]

Well said and very true. We all know the situation and it is steadily being made worse. I love Thailand and have chosen to retire here. This editorial needs to be directed to someone who could possibly consider and act on it. Preferably not a member of the government who considers us “dirty ferang”

[Nipral]

Dont expect military to be smart, or even mildly intelligent !

[Changnam43]

A very well written opinion.

I am under 70 but it is impossible for me to get medical insurance due to a medical condition.

In the event that I required expensive medical treatment here I could and would pay for the treatment required from my savings which are way over US$50,000.  

Sadly that counts for nothing as far as Thai immigration are concerned.

[Johno]

Agree with every thing said here and the fact of the 2 tiered medical Bill's which charge the westerner outrageous prices compared to locals and a thai medical insurance policy that does not like to pay out are just a bad joke..

Why would the 800000bht propping up the thai banks and cannot be used for medical emergencys 

And of course immigration bureaucracy infuriating...  

[Shade_Wilder]

"Quite clearly the Government has simply not thought through the impact of the insurance provisions imposed by the Thailand Pass on “budget tourists” and likewise on current and prospective retirees in Thailand."

The author has hit the proverbial nail on the head with his first paragraph. However, he seems to be assuming that nothing will change.

Correct, both backpackers and seniors won't come, Thai tourism numbers won't increase, then someone will tell the people in charge that their wonderful idea isn't working and things will change. Remember; the idea behind re-opening is to stimulate a failing economy, and if the economy continues to be sluggish, things will change.

What we are seeing is decision-making by Bureaucrat with no 'skin in the game'. As soon as actual business men tell the government that the reason tourists aren't coming is it is too expensive, things will change.

The people making decisions know don't know what they are doing. When they fail, other, better qualified people in the field of tourism will be listened to.

Or, the economy will not pick up and the current government will be removed from office.

Be patient, the laws of Economics and Politics work.

[poohy]

Sorry i whole heartedly  agree BUT the government junta or army and whats above only care about themselves and their merry mates

They dont care about thai people as seen in  this vaccine debacle and even less about us

[Cabra]

OPINION: Thailand is not interested in being a destination retirement community of 70+ year old foreigners (just look at how its ruined places like Florida, USA). That's evident in everything the Thai  government does. Firstly, retirees don't spend money like the "two week millionaires" who (pre-covid) prowl the go-go bars. And secondly, the perception of westerners of advanced age being a burden on the healthcare system (albeit true or false) - when compared to elderly Thais - makes any chance of this ever changing very remote. You might want to look at Vietnam or PI as alternatives. While there is still value for money in THA, this is decreasing every year. Maybe a THA marriage Visa is the way to go (no insurance requirements) - however, that avenue is frought with a whole series of other risk... Chokdee

[Soidog]

I can’t disagree with the article at all. However, the real hidden issue here is what comes next. This is a slow drip feed of further restrictions and hence it only affects a sub-group each time a change is made. By doing so (calculated or otherwise) you limit the outrage and those unaffected fail to support any complaints. 
 

With these latest changes as with the change to people on OA visas, anyone on a Non-O simply shrug and say “it doesn’t affect me”.  The problem is, what happens when it does? If they introduced rules that affect Non-O in terms of health insurance, many people aged 60 or below would shrug and say “it’s not too expensive for me as I’m under 75”.  
 

Until recently, it was my plan to retire in Thailand once I reach my early 60’s. The things that have happened over the past few years have made me totally reconsider this idea. If I move to Thailand full time and as a single man I would most likely end up meeting a local woman. In no time I could find myself as many do, fully integrated in to a Thai family and be happy to be there. Imagine then when I hit 70 or 75 and then rules change making it impossible for me to finance my stay.  Potentially having to leave a person and lifestyle you love and return to a country you have perhaps not visited for many many years. Having to start again at 75 and trying to get back on the property ladder while all the time trying to support a lady back in Thailand. A simply cruel and horrific scenario for someone in their final years.
 

I have no problem with a country changing its rules and strengthening its policies to support a strategy of change. But these changes should not be retrospective. They should be for new applicants only. How can you plan your future when at any moment a new rule demanding anyone on a Non-O must hold 5 million baht in a Thai bank. Once again, those with 5 million to spare would shrug and say “it doesnt bother me”, and on it goes.  

If we are bothered now, wait another year and see what’s next….
 

Good luck to all of you retired in Thailand and having to consider such matters. 

[vvdb.fr]

why should this country accept penniless and sick pensionErs?

they are not tourists but profiteers.

you have to pay the taxes, your care because you simply did not participate in the national production during your life here ...

I am a young retiree and I intend to stay abroad for ten years because after 70 years the Health concerns are major and it is more comfortable to be treated by people who speak your language.

I think it is a mistake to have lowered the insurance to $ 50,000.

$ 100,000 insurance was a way to get higher income tourists, what the government calls quality.

Edited November 1, 2021 by vvdb.fr
English

[King Cotton]

 

" . . . For the good of the country I urge the bureaucrats to think, and then to think again, in the interests not only of those who come to visit but also for all those Thai citizens who benefit, on a daily basis, from the money we happily contribute to the local economy."

Philip H Nicholls

Thailand

The best and most pertinent piece to come TN in the six months that I've 'enjoyed' their news. A message that will resonate with thousands like me but which will sadly never even be read by those in a position to make any difference.

 

[Peabody1953]

I also live on fixed income. In addition to the support and benefits my Thai spouse’s family receives, close to 50% of my monthly spending goes toward Thai owned local businesses, many of which would also be shuttered if not for farang  spending. 

[Swissguy]

A very good written opinion and l am agree too, the burocracy in thailand is to big and to slow. On the lmmigration office they change every year what they need for documents. This year l had to show every Single month from my Account to make copys and copy from every Visa every yearl live here now 10 years and l am 55 years old. I feel me like a criminal and have get off my clothes every year. And now the lnsurance the goverment have to help the normal thai people get a Health insurance. The goverment think every farang is rich. I am speakless and l wait now 4 month for my vaccine moderna, the goverment blocks the donation. I understand nothing whats going on in the future

Only predicts

[Soidog]

11 minutes ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"Quite clearly the Government has simply not thought through the impact of the insurance provisions imposed by the Thailand Pass on “budget tourists” and likewise on current and prospective retirees in Thailand."

The author has hit the proverbial nail on the head with his first paragraph. However, he seems to be assuming that nothing will change.

Correct, both backpackers and seniors won't come, Thai tourism numbers won't increase, then someone will tell the people in charge that their wonderful idea isn't working and things will change. Remember; the idea behind re-opening is to stimulate a failing economy, and if the economy continues to be sluggish, things will change.

What we are seeing is decision-making by Bureaucrat with no 'skin in the game'. As soon as actual business men tell the government that the reason tourists aren't coming is it is too expensive, things will change.

The people making decisions know don't know what they are doing. When they fail, other, better qualified people in the field of tourism will be listened to.

Or, the economy will not pick up and the current government will be removed from office.

Be patient, the laws of Economics and Politics work.

That’s a really upbeat and optimistic post  @Shade_Wilder  and I hope you are right.
 

Someone once said to me “If is wrong, it will change”. Generally I’ve always found this to be the case. It may take years and years, but things do change. The only question is how long before this direction of travel changes? For the two week short term tourist it will change I’m sure. I think by early next year (maybe even next month) the insurance will stop and be replaced by maybe a one off 500-1,000 baht levy. I’m not so optimistic of what they appear to be doing to stop and force out long term stayers or retirees ? ….  

[gummy]

6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I can’t disagree with the article at all. However, the real hidden issue here is what comes next. This is a slow drip feed of further restrictions and hence it only affects a sub-group each time a change is made. By doing so (calculated or otherwise) you limit the outrage and those unaffected fail to support any complaints. 
 

With these latest changes as with the change to people on OA visas, anyone on a Non-O simply shrug and say “it doesn’t affect me”.  The problem is, what happens when it does? If they introduced rules that affect Non-O in terms of health insurance, many people aged 60 or below would shrug and say “it’s not too expensive for me as I’m under 75”.  
 

Until recently, it was my plan to retire in Thailand once I reach my early 60’s. The things that have happened over the past few years have made me totally reconsider this idea. If I move to Thailand full time and as a single man I would most likely end up meeting a local woman. In no time I could find myself as many do, fully integrated in to a Thai family and be happy to be there. Imagine then when I hit 70 or 75 and then rules change making it impossible for me to finance my stay.  Potentially having to leave a person and lifestyle you love and return to a country you have perhaps not visited for many many years. Having to start again at 75 and trying to get back on the property ladder while all the time trying to support a lady back in Thailand. A simply cruel and horrific scenario for someone in their final years.
 

I have no problem with a country changing its rules and strengthening its policies to support a strategy of change. But these changes should not be retrospective. They should be for new applicants only. How can you plan your future when at any moment a new rule demanding anyone on a Non-O must hold 5 million baht in a Thai bank. Once again, those with 5 million to spare would shrug and say “it doesnt bother me”, and on it goes.  

If we are bothered now, wait another year and see what’s next….
 

Good luck to all of you retired in Thailand and having to consider such matters. 

Frankly speaking if you always think of the negatives you could end up being quite miserable irrespective of where you are

[Nipral]

3 minutes ago, vvdb.fr said:

why should this country accept penniless and sick pensions?

they are not tourists but profiteers.

you have to pay the taxes, your care because you simply did not participate in the national production during your life here ...

I am a young retiree and I intend to stay abroad for ten years because after 70 years the Health concerns are major and it is more comfortable to be treated by people who speak your language.

I think it is a mistake to have lowered the insurance to $ 50,000.

looks like you mental health is already utterly concerning !

[ThailandBob]

 

If not mistaken, this targets a small group of maybe 2500 retirees a year who, prior to this new law, calculated that it was affordable to retire here.

And, as the OP alluded, most of us invest far more in the upkeep of a large extended family. I'm always helping various cousins/kids/siblings of my in laws. It's what is expected of farang husbands.

When I pull out of Thailand and take my Thai wife with me, unfortunately a lot of that assistance will be redirected to family in my home country. 

Good post!

[LoongFred]

2 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I can’t disagree with the article at all. However, the real hidden issue here is what comes next. This is a slow drip feed of further restrictions and hence it only affects a sub-group each time a change is made. By doing so (calculated or otherwise) you limit the outrage and those unaffected fail to support any complaints. 
 

With these latest changes as with the change to people on OA visas, anyone on a Non-O simply shrug and say “it doesn’t affect me”.  The problem is, what happens when it does? If they introduced rules that affect Non-O in terms of health insurance, many people aged 60 or below would shrug and say “it’s not too expensive for me as I’m under 75”.  
 

Until recently, it was my plan to retire in Thailand once I reach my early 60’s. The things that have happened over the past few years have made me totally reconsider this idea. If I move to Thailand full time and as a single man I would most likely end up meeting a local woman. In no time I could find myself as many do, fully integrated in to a Thai family and be happy to be there. Imagine then when I hit 70 or 75 and then rules change making it impossible for me to finance my stay.  Potentially having to leave a person and lifestyle you love and return to a country you have perhaps not visited for many many years. Having to start again at 75 and trying to get back on the property ladder while all the time trying to support a lady back in Thailand. A simply cruel and horrific scenario for someone in their final years.
 

I have no problem with a country changing its rules and strengthening its policies to support a strategy of change. But these changes should not be retrospective. They should be for new applicants only. How can you plan your future when at any moment a new rule demanding anyone on a Non-O must hold 5 million baht in a Thai bank. Once again, those with 5 million to spare would shrug and say “it doesnt bother me”, and on it goes.  

If we are bothered now, wait another year and see what’s next….
 

Good luck to all of you retired in Thailand and having to consider such matters. 

Sorry you seem to be depressed by the new or future requirements. It sounds that Thailand may be advancing beyond your abilities to keep up. It unfortunately might also affect others that moved here only to discover as society advances their left behind. 

I'm not rich and have resources to cover my wife and myself.  We have insurance in the US that would cover major things but would need their pre-approval for coverage here. 

Thailand is no longer classified as a poor country and life expenses (except NHS) will be comparable in the near future. If you're looking for cheap living other places may be better for you.

Thailand has much to offer and is a culturally rich and beautiful place. For those, like me  who like warm weather, it's ideal.

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, vvdb.fr said:

why should this country accept penniless and sick pensions?

they are not tourists but profiteers.

you have to pay the taxes, your care because you simply did not participate in the national production during your life here ...

I am a young retiree and I intend to stay abroad for ten years because after 70 years the Health concerns are major and it is more comfortable to be treated by people who speak your language.

I think it is a mistake to have lowered the insurance to $ 50,000.

That’s fair enough. But what about people who have been there already for say 10-20 years and are now forced out. Contributing to Thai society as teachers or working for foreigners business. Supporting families and buying property. Do you think it’s right to retrospectively apply rules to people who have made life plans based on rules set in place 10-20 years ago?
 

Currently, even if you are married and perhaps started a family, you still need to place 400,000 baht (£9,000, €10,000, $US 12,000) in a Thai bank. I think many people who say “why should the Thai government support a load of penniless pensioners are viewing it from how things are in their own countries. In Thailand you don’t get free social care. You don’t get “meals on wheels” or Summer air conditioning allowance. You don’t get a state pension as such. The worse case scenario for Thailand is that the foreigner becomes sick and they can’t pay for their treatment. In most cases when that happens, they stick them in a government hospital, pump them full of morphine to stop any pain and let them die. Hardly a massive cost for someone who has maintained a Thai family for years. Paid VAT on everything they buy. Purchased cars, houses and put kids through school and university. Not to mention paying for monthly mobile phone bills, internet and satellite tv. Anyone who has spent more than 5 years retired in Thailand has already contributed enough to pay for some morphine and a few litres of unleaded petrol to burn them when they die !!

[Naresh]

Very valid issue, well highlighted.

Can there be a way to take it to the authorities who matter? 

It is in mutual interest of Thailand and the visitors. Complicated and expensive requirements would dampen the spirit and discourage many. 

 

[Lewis]

This opinion is one sided.  Thailand will never develop in right direction if it keep attracting only backpackers, cheap Charlie’s and modest retirees having nostalgia of the good old times.. Let’s face it: to avoid the inevitable nature destruction by mass and cheap tourism, to afford a modern and sustainable infrastructure including hospitals c/w state of the art medical equipment they need to raise the bar. It has to cost more. Thailand is reaching a point where they will have to rebuild an education system to produce more skilled workers, technicians, health care workers and engineers. Stop looking at this country like a heaven for retirees or backpackers. 

[Shade_Wilder]

26 minutes ago, Soidog said:

That’s a really upbeat and optimistic post  @Shade_Wilder  and I hope you are right.
 

Someone once said to me “If is wrong, it will change”. Generally I’ve always found this to be the case. It may take years and years, but things do change. The only question is how long before this direction of travel changes? For the two week short term tourist it will change I’m sure. I think by early next year (maybe even next month) the insurance will stop and be replaced by maybe a one off 500-1,000 baht levy. I’m not so optimistic of what they appear to be doing to stop and force out long term stayers or retirees ? ….  

Afternoon Mr @Soidog

No, I don't believe that it is too optimistic; it is a matter of politics and economics.

The current government has limited legitimacy in other areas, so it needs economic good times and growth to be the reason for it to be re-elected, or to be able to get away with cheating to another term.

Thais like money. Thais like economic growth. The Bangkok Elite like growth and money. Thai women like money. All those university students who have been cooped up for 2 years want a job and money. The farmers want money. The bar girls want money.

Thai people want money and economic good times.

The Thai government decided to re-open tourism in order to generate economic good times ahead of a likely election next year, and if they don't get good economic growth and cash coming in, they will get tossed out.

And, they know it.

Remember the Arab Spring started with a Tunisian fruit seller who wasn't getting a good income. I know it, and you can bet your ass the Government/Junta people know it too.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Shade_Wilder

[Poolie]

I think you all over-estimate the gross/nett contribution to the Thai economy that ex pats bring. They wouldn't miss it, even in these more austere times. At it's height, it was estimated to be part of 1%. Hardly ground shaking. The close families no doubt will mourn it but not the economists. 

[GramBo]

Hello. 

I am 62 year old English man with a lovely Thai Girlfriend, hopefully soon to be my wife. I have been planning to retire in Thailand but since covid everything is much more difficult now. I am on a normal pension, I have money to purchase a home in Thailand for My future wife, her family and myself. But this nonsense about covid insurance and not wanting normal people, just the wealthy is totally ridiculous.

THIS IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER FOR NORMAL THAI PEOPLE.