News Forum - New York TAT says US travellers look for trips without quarantine

[Bob20]

  On 8/29/2021 at 3:36 AM, AdamX said:

Do you mean that this is the craziest quote?

Please clarify

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Someone noted that vaccinated people still pass on the vaccine but to a lesser extent and shorter period of time.

I explained that we can not distinguish those people from others.

So what still counts is that nobody is safe until everybody is safe.

[DiJoDavO]

No, they want a holiday with the longest possible quarantine.... 

Of course no one wants to quarantine the first days of their holiday. 

Is this news?

[BBY]

Can’t really believe I am reading this, after countless months of it being commented upon in probably just about every forum relating to tourism in Thailand.

I think maybe the truth of the matter is that the lack of kickbacks together with the fact that all the associated money making ideas (scams) that they have tried to implement to replace them have failed. The loss of this income, is finally reaching those people who will insist something is done about it as it’s now affecting their personal bank balances. In other words, the pain is starting to be felt high enough up the tree to make something happen.

so will they get it right now - Nahhh, probably not. But I suppose it depends on how high up the tree it’s hurting.

As I have said before, restrictions , regulations, and money making scams = minimal tourism

Remove the above, along with any other hoops you currently want tourists to jump through, vaccinate your people with a vaccine that works and you will start to see the return to mass tourism. 
 

Fact: until you do this. It’s just NOT going to happen, and if you don’t do something about it very soon, you will just end up compounding an already compounded situation. 

[AdamX]

  On 8/29/2021 at 3:47 AM, Bob20 said:

Someone noted that vaccinated people still pass on the vaccine but to a lesser extent and shorter period of time.

I explained that we can not distinguish those people from others.

So what still counts is that nobody is safe until everybody is safe.

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Thank you.

My thoughts are that "Safe", is  an impossible and unreasonable goal, and trying to pursue this delusion, we will continue  to suffer under pointless lockdowns. Lets not forget that the costs of lockdown are exponentially higher than letting nature take its course.

its impossible to guarantee safe, vaccinated or not. As you point out, vax or not, transmission and reinfection is always possible

if someone wants "Safe", they should isolate themselves forever, and let the rest of us get on with life

[Soidog]

  On 8/28/2021 at 3:30 AM, dmacarelli said:

Require double vaccination, with a quality vax, unlike the very low end Sinovax being used here. And require a covid negative test. And restrict only the nations that are at the top of the covid list. That is all. NO OTHER restrictions. Get some adults in the room, please. So much timidity by the weak, feeble, useless army appointees. 

And remember, with the daily count rising here, international tourists are taking a far greater risk by being here, and being exposed to the Thais, than the Thai people are taking by being exposed to them. Lastly, Thailand needs the world right now, 20X more than the world needs Thailand. This is not the COTKU (Center of the known universe). The locals are in a world of hurt, economically. And it may last a very, very long time. I predict five years, and the fallout will be worse than 1997. And most of it appears to be sabotage. Willful or not.

It they do a re-opening many ex-pats will return. Only a small number of tourists. My guess would be if they re-opened with NO restrictions at all next year, they might see a million tourists. Maybe. Two million by 2023-2025. Possibly as many as 5 million, five years from now. Getting the tourists to come back here is going to be infinitely harder than they think.

First and foremost, the lower to middle income crowd from China, India and Malaysia have been hard hit by all of this Covid crap, and it will take a long time before most of them are ready to spend alot of money on vacations.

Second, the longer Thailand waits, the harder it is going to be. Thailand is already being forgotten, and is the laughing stock of the planet at this time, for the ridiculous number of restrictions imposed on anyone who wants to come here, even though it is them taking the risk, NOT the Thais, and the locals here are the real zombies now, and the real threat to the health of an incoming tourist. 

Third, they never even considered addressing any of the issues plaguing the industry, long before Covid. And they continue to use Covid as a cover story, for any and all issues pertaining to tourism. The industry is basically finished here. Five years from now it will be a pale shadow of it's former self. Tourism here is essentially finished.

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You make some very good points here, the main one being vaccinated tourists being at more risk of infection from unvaccinated Thais. However, the Thai media and no doubt Thai indoctrination that anything non-Thai is inferior, has resulted in them being passive about this. Many of the Thais who I’m in contact with believe it is right to keep foreigners out and tightly controlled. They see it as a major risk to recovery. Oddly enough, even the ones involved in the service industry believe it. What they are struggling to understand is why foreigners aren’t now coming back in their droves now the Sandbox and Samui  are “Open”. This same mentality will hold them back in the coming years. The thought the whole world just can’t wait to visit the best place on the planet will result in price increases, lower standards and continued indifference to foreigners. 
 

For Thailand, this Pandemic is the perfect storm in terms of its mindset and culture. Failure to question authority. Failure to learn from others. Fear of outsiders. Sense of superiority. Thainess and Thai style. Loss of face. Land of the free.  When what’s needed is tough questions and team work. Seeking out the best practice. Attracting the best brains. Humility in the face of nature. Openness and transparency of facts. 
 

A long road to recovery lies ahead for the tourism industry. Perhaps as you suggest, it may take years or even never happen. They may simply use this as a way of shifting the economy away from tourism and be less reliant upon it. They can blame and dislike foreigners even more then. 

[Bob20]

  On 8/29/2021 at 9:39 AM, AdamX said:

if someone wants "Safe", they should isolate themselves forever, and let the rest of us get on with life

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Oh, how we wish you would together with your far-right conspiracy CCC mates on whom you rely for your likes  

I've put you back in my ignore list, close enough to "isolation".

[Hikaru_1u]

I have read the entry/exit requirements for Thailand coming from Japan. No vaccine passport just an RT-PCR test correct? For entry into Phuket you do need to be vaccinated? What about the other islands like Koh Samui or Koh Lanta? I would like to travel with my family in December.We are putting it off for now.

[Bob20]

  On 8/29/2021 at 2:15 PM, Hikaru_1u said:

I have read the entry/exit requirements for Thailand coming from Japan. No vaccine passport just an RT-PCR test correct? For entry into Phuket you do need to be vaccinated? What about the other islands like Koh Samui or Koh Lanta? I would like to travel with my family in December.We are putting it off for now.

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Depends on what you want to come for?

The country is mostly shut, lots of shops are shut, lots of bars are shut, lots of restaurants are shut. I don't mean temporarily closed. They've gone permanently after 1.5 years of no tourists.

Most places are like ghost towns. No night markets, no walking streets.

If you want to mingle and socialise, this will not be the place for a long time.

If you want to go for quiet walks, hikes or just to lay on a beach, it may be perfect. Depending on the situation by December. Don't book early, the situation can change here by the hour the way decisions are taken.

[Hikaru_1u]

  On 8/29/2021 at 2:42 PM, Bob20 said:

Depends on what you want to come for?

The country is mostly shut, lots of shops are shut, lots of bars are shut, lots of restaurants are shut. I don't mean temporarily closed. They've gone permanently after 1.5 years of no tourists.

Most places are like ghost towns. No night markets, no walking streets.

If you want to mingle and socialise, this will not be the place for a long time.

If you want to go for quiet walks, hikes or just to lay on a beach, it may be perfect. Depending on the situation by December. Don't book early, the situation can change here by the hour the way decisions are taken.

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Thank you, I found the information and I am looking at it right now.

[AdamX]

  On 8/29/2021 at 10:09 AM, Bob20 said:

Oh, how we wish you would together with your far-right conspiracy CCC mates on whom you rely for your likes  

I've put you back in my ignore list, close enough to "isolation".

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The use of ad hominium indicates internal frustration that the speaker has no logical arguments and is reacting emotionally because they fear the truth.

PS: Your ignore list seems to be where most of the critical thinkers hang out

[King Cotton]

  On 8/29/2021 at 2:15 PM, Hikaru_1u said:

I have read the entry/exit requirements for Thailand coming from Japan. No vaccine passport just an RT-PCR test correct? For entry into Phuket you do need to be vaccinated? What about the other islands like Koh Samui or Koh Lanta? I would like to travel with my family in December.We are putting it off for now.

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Re your Japan to Phuket travel, our expert on such matters is @Faz, who on spotting this mention will probably come galloping to your aid.  And your debut post, too, so thanks for that!

Hello, Hikaru_1u and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[Faz]

  On 8/29/2021 at 2:15 PM, Hikaru_1u said:

I have read the entry/exit requirements for Thailand coming from Japan. No vaccine passport just an RT-PCR test correct? For entry into Phuket you do need to be vaccinated? What about the other islands like Koh Samui or Koh Lanta? I would like to travel with my family in December.We are putting it off for now.

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The entry requirements could change between now and December, better to review nearer the time.

Currently you have to spend at least 7 days in Phuket before then continuing with a further 7 day island quarantine in Koh Samui or Koh Lanta.

[dmacarelli]

  On 8/29/2021 at 10:02 AM, Soidog said:

You make some very good points here, the main one being vaccinated tourists being at more risk of infection from unvaccinated Thais. However, the Thai media and no doubt Thai indoctrination that anything non-Thai is inferior, has resulted in them being passive about this. Many of the Thais who I’m in contact with believe it is right to keep foreigners out and tightly controlled. They see it as a major risk to recovery. Oddly enough, even the ones involved in the service industry believe it. What they are struggling to understand is why foreigners aren’t now coming back in their droves now the Sandbox and Samui  are “Open”. This same mentality will hold them back in the coming years. The thought the whole world just can’t wait to visit the best place on the planet will result in price increases, lower standards and continued indifference to foreigners. 
 

For Thailand, this Pandemic is the perfect storm in terms of its mindset and culture. Failure to question authority. Failure to learn from others. Fear of outsiders. Sense of superiority. Thainess and Thai style. Loss of face. Land of the free.  When what’s needed is tough questions and team work. Seeking out the best practice. Attracting the best brains. Humility in the face of nature. Openness and transparency of facts. 
 

A long road to recovery lies ahead for the tourism industry. Perhaps as you suggest, it may take years or even never happen. They may simply use this as a way of shifting the economy away from tourism and be less reliant upon it. They can blame and dislike foreigners even more then. 

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Agreed. Tourism as an industry here is basically finished. You can only kick a horse so many times, before it keels over and dies. The quality of tourist here has been declining here for years. Now, with the extreme timidity, it is the final shot in the hull of the boat of tourism. A Titanic type vessel, having already hit the iceberg. Sinking, sinking, gone. 

And that means trillions of dollars of tourism infrastructure, for what? Who stepped in to protect those investors? Nobody. 

[Soidog]

  On 8/29/2021 at 9:39 AM, AdamX said:

Thank you.

My thoughts are that "Safe", is  an impossible and unreasonable goal, and trying to pursue this delusion, we will continue  to suffer under pointless lockdowns. Lets not forget that the costs of lockdown are exponentially higher than letting nature take its course.

its impossible to guarantee safe, vaccinated or not. As you point out, vax or not, transmission and reinfection is always possible

if someone wants "Safe", they should isolate themselves forever, and let the rest of us get on with life

Expand  

That’s all well and good to suggest people who want to stay safe should isolate and let others “get on with life”. But what happens when the hospitals fill up with Covid cases and the ICU are full? What happens to those isolating who may have a heart attack or may feel a lump that turns out it requires surgery. All of that gets delayed and cancelled so that the rest of you can go to the bars and nightclubs and go shopping for a new pair of shoes. That’s why it’s not ok to be selfish. We are all sharing this planet and we need to do so in a compassionate and collective way. No man is an island… 

[Hikaru_1u]

  On 8/30/2021 at 4:07 AM, Faz said:

The entry requirements could change between now and December, better to review nearer the time.

Currently you have to spend at least 7 days in Phuket before then continuing with a further 7 day island quarantine in Koh Samui or Koh Lanta.

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Well, that is unfortunate and I suppose we won't be traveling to Thailand in the near future. My family and I will not be vaccinating. At least not until stage three clinical trials are completed sometime next year. I don't feel it is wise to get my wife and children injected when only the primary stage three trials have been completed (rather quickly). Especially in light of all the news about mediocre vaccine efficacy and the recent Moderna scare.

[AdamX]

  On 8/30/2021 at 8:26 AM, Soidog said:

That’s all well and good to suggest people who want to stay safe should isolate and let others “get on with life”. But what happens when the hospitals fill up with Covid cases and the ICU are full? What happens to those isolating who may have a heart attack or may feel a lump that turns out it requires surgery. All of that gets delayed and cancelled so that the rest of you can go to the bars and nightclubs and go shopping for a new pair of shoes. That’s why it’s not ok to be selfish. We are all sharing this planet and we need to do so in a compassionate and collective way. No man is an island… 

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The hospitals are full of cases, not sick people. Its insane to waste money on pointless in and out isolations for people who are not sick, when it achieves absolutely nothing, and this money and effort could be used to help people who are truly sick

Anyone who speaks to the people who went thru forced isolations will attest to how pointless  the process was.

On the issue of selfishness, what is actually selfish  is to destroy the economy and millions of livelihoods simply  based on your fears, and with no scientific evidence, and when you have the option to self isolate yourself and leave the rest of us alone.

The damage done by this selfishness will last for a decade and all with zero metrics to prove that the selfishness actually worked for anyone except Big Pharma, Media, corporations (whose factories DONT have to shut down) and the pointless non N95 mask makers.

[Soidog]

  On 8/30/2021 at 12:43 PM, AdamX said:

The hospitals are full of cases, not sick people. Its insane to waste money on pointless in and out isolations for people who are not sick, when it achieves absolutely nothing, and this money and effort could be used to help people who are truly sick

Anyone who speaks to the people who went thru forced isolations will attest to how pointless  the process was.

On the issue of selfishness, what is actually selfish  is to destroy the economy and millions of livelihoods simply  based on your fears, and with no scientific evidence, and when you have the option to self isolate yourself and leave the rest of us alone.

The damage done by this selfishness will last for a decade and all with zero metrics to prove that the selfishness actually worked for anyone except Big Pharma, Media, corporations (whose factories DONT have to shut down) and the pointless non N95 mask makers.

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All very interesting but I never suggested the hospitals were full of anyone. I said they would become full of sick people if the government ease lockdown too soon. 

[Tim]

  On 8/28/2021 at 2:41 PM, BIGGLES said:

Problem is, the Thai people are not fully vaccinated.  At best most have had one shot not two. Even those who have managed to get two shots have had the Sinovac jab. That is completely useless  against the Delta variant ( the one sweeping Thailand).

The fully vaccinated tourist ( two shots of AZ or Pfizer), are not the problem, the Thai's are the problem.

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Thai people of Phuket not fully vaccinated? 

According to TAT, 75% have received a second dose and 92% at least one dose. As for Sinovac there is no scientific proof it is useless against the Delta variant. Could be more reliable vaccine than those experimental aRnm vaccines that no one knows what will be the consequences in the future.