Afghanistan Has Fallen

[9S_]

Source Reuters

After Afghan President fled Kabul this statement was pushed out by the Taliban

 

Taliban officials: there will be no transitional government in Afghanistan

 

KABUL (Reuters) - Two Taliban officials told Reuters on Sunday there would be no transitional government in Afghanistan and that the group expects a complete handover of power.

President Ashraf Ghani left Afghanistan after Taliban fighters entered the capital Kabul earlier on Sunday, capping their return to power two decades after being forced out by U.S.-led forces.

My own commentary:

-Just like Saigon…

 

 

[JamesE]

7 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

Source Reuters

After Afghan President fled Kabul this statement was pushed out by the Taliban

Taliban officials: there will be no transitional government in Afghanistan

KABUL (Reuters) - Two Taliban officials told Reuters on Sunday there would be no transitional government in Afghanistan and that the group expects a complete handover of power.

President Ashraf Ghani left Afghanistan after Taliban fighters entered the capital Kabul earlier on Sunday, capping their return to power two decades after being forced out by U.S.-led forces.

My own commentary:

-Just like Saigon…

And had the US engaged with the Taliban initially (which they wanted but the puppet government refused) it would have been a totally different outcome. The US never learns from history; either its own (Vietnam, Laos) or that of others (British and Russians in Afghanistan).

[vlad]

And  armed by mostly American weaponry.

[Benroon]

So after spending a humungous $778 BILLION dollars, according to the US dept of defence, to get one man the americans have left their usual chaos ! They just don't learn - I wonder where they're going to go blundering in next ?

 

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

Brought to you by the same people that say you should stay locked down and afraid.

[Benroon]

3 minutes ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

Brought to you by the same people that say you should stay locked down and afraid.

Are you in the right thread ?

[JamesE]

49 minutes ago, Tornado said:

My own commentary:

Joe Biden gave Afghanistan to the Taliban

He would have had to renege on Trump's surrender agreement which was approved by his sniveling, brown nosed toadies in the Senate.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/04/973604904/trumps-deal-to-end-war-in-afghanistan-leaves-biden-with-a-terrible-situation

[Guest]

I spent 372 days in Afghanistan over 2 tours my Battalion lost 4 Soldiers KIA and 27 WIA but we inflicted at least 100 times that on the Taliban I've just watched the news and seen those bearded rats sitting in the President Palace in Kabul and Its left me saddened.

But I take pride that Soldiers (off many nations) battered the Taliban into hiding behind Women and Children only brave enough to come out into plain sight when we left like the rats they are.

But the biggest rat is sat in The White House Joseph Bejing Biden who sold us out but what can you expect from a Man that can't protect his own People.

God bless the Soldiers who fought in Afghanistan over the past 20 years only to be sold out by Joe Biden a Man with less of a morale compass than The Taliban.

[Dedinbed]

R I P to every service personnel who laid down their lives in this wretched conflict .. near 20 yrs and for what .. Lions led by donkey politicians again ..

Edited August 15, 2021 by Dedinbed
Sp

[SomTum]

The decision for the U.S. to withdraw from Afghanistan was made last year, and if the Pentagon hadn't stopped it, the withdrawal would have been completed then, too. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-says-us-troops-in-afghanistan-will-be-home-by-christmas I'm not sure there was ever going to be a good time to leave.

What I can't understand is why we aren't succeeding in our training missions when we try to stand up a national army so we can be relieved of duty.

[PBS]

5 hours ago, Tornado said:

My own commentary:

Joe Biden gave Afghanistan to the Taliban

A revision....Trump and American domestic political demands gave Afghanistan to the Taliban. Also lets not forget the lies and misinformation during the past twenty years with every Administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Papers

There are of course numerous other Afghan internal domestic and foreign factors.

[JamesE]

34 minutes ago, SomTum said:

What I can't understand is why we aren't succeeding in our training missions when we try to stand up a national army so we can be relieved of duty.

We're training soldiers who take the job because they need the money. There is no service to country ethos in a tribal nation. We try to build nations where a national identity does not exist within its borders.

[mcambl61]

50 minutes ago, PBS said:

A revision....Trump and American domestic political demands gave Afghanistan to the Taliban. Also lets not forget the lies and misinformation during the past twenty years with every Administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Papers

There are of course numerous other Afghan internal domestic and foreign factors.

Nonsense. Of course we should have left long ago. Blaming trump is idiotic. The trump administration were very clear in talks with the taliban. There was no plan to immediately abandon Bagram like obiden did. 

 

Ask yourself why the us government did not negotiate a airbase located in a neighboring country for a duration to protect the draw down. Air power kept the useless afghan army from being slaughtered every time they were in contact with the taliban. 

Most of the afghan army is illiterate, no way of knowing if they are even in the taliban. 

 

The whole war was a disaster of ridiculous rules of engagement. 

 

Hundreds of Billions wasted trying to make tribal goat herders into a functional country is stupid. 

 

[colinneil]

Just another American clusterf..k, when will they ever learn to mind their own business?

A total failure, many lives lost, and for what?

They buggered things up in Vietnam, Iraq, now Afghanistan, cost billions, and the Taliban are back, so what did they achieve? Nothing thats what.

[gummy]

6 hours ago, Benroon said:

So after spending a humungous $778 BILLION dollars, according to the US dept of defence, to get one man the americans have left their usual chaos ! They just don't learn - I wonder where they're going to go blundering in next ?

Well no doubt they ( the US ) will determine that another nation where civilization has survived for a few thousand years really need need the US to go with all guns blazing in an attempt to change their life's philosophy to that of the American way of life which has been around for a few hundred years. Meanwhile people wonder why other nations consider that the US are losing all credibility, whilst the economic powerhouse of China looks on and pursues its own, but so far , peaceful agenda with other nations and gaining world influence by economic methods. So simplistically the USA considers that control of a nation can be done by bombing their way in and losing countless lives of the their serviceman in the process, whereas the Chinese think it can be done by buying their way in.  

[MrStretch]

7 hours ago, JamesE said:

And had the US engaged with the Taliban initially (which they wanted but the puppet government refused) it would have been a totally different outcome. The US never learns from history; either its own (Vietnam, Laos) or that of others (British and Russians in Afghanistan).

I completely disagree.  The Taliban has never honored one agreement they've made with anyone.  They are singularly minded in their purpose and would have pursued exactly the same actions whether the US or Allah himself had engaged with them.

I realize that there will be a lot of horrible things happening in Afghanistan now, but if the world can contain them within their own borders, then that's the best we can hope for.

No one has ever won a war in or with that country, dating back to Alexander the Great.  It was a non-winnable exercise from the beginning.  We should have learned from the Russians' failure before we went there.

 

[PBS]

Just now, mcambl61 said:

Nonsense. Of course we should have left long ago. Blaming trump is idiotic. The trump administration were very clear in talks with the taliban. There was no plan to immediately abandon Bagram like obiden did. 

Ask yourself why the us government did not negotiate a airbase located in a neighboring country for a duration to protect the draw down. Air power kept the useless afghan army from being slaughtered every time they were in contact with the taliban. 

Most of the afghan army is illiterate, no way of knowing if they are even in the taliban. 

The whole war was a disaster of ridiculous rules of engagement. 

Hundreds of Billions wasted trying to make tribal goat herders into a functional country is stupid. 

Misinformation. Trump, contrary to his prior breast beating self promotion clearly signalled intent for US forces to depart Afghanistan within 18 months from the Doha agreement in 02/20 at the same time giving in to Taliban demands to release their followers from prison and so on  without enforceable guarantees. The final rot started from that point on. Biden added to existing US disastrous policy with the majority of the US public no longer wishing to sacrifice US treasure and money. In his usual M.O., no doubt trump will disclaim any responsibility whatsoever with the blind acceptance of his followers.

I notice no mention of the Hazaras in current reporting, among other matters, just demonstrates lack of concern one can expect other than "look there"  hand wringing over women's rights for public consumption.

[BlueSphinx]

Somewhat off topic, but paraphrasing the Afghanistan approach a spot-on comment by Martin Kulldorff, professor of Medicine at Harvard.

[9S_]

6 hours ago, JamesE said:

He would have had to renege on Trump's surrender agreement which was approved by his sniveling, brown nosed toadies in the Senate.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/04/973604904/trumps-deal-to-end-war-in-afghanistan-leaves-biden-with-a-terrible-situation

How many provincial capitals were lost under Trump?

[RWD]

6 hours ago, Tornado said:

My own commentary:

Joe Biden gave Afghanistan to the Taliban

CRAP!.  It's always been theirs since they have essentially been the top dogs after Soviet withdrawal.  Previous just Mujihadeen (Plundering warlord led thugs) and failed communist coup.  

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Somewhat off topic, but paraphrasing the Afghanistan approach a spot-on comment by Martin Kulldorff, professor of Medicine at Harvard.

You sneaky bugger - well done in getting your point in here

[kerryd]

7 hours ago, Tornado said:

My own commentary:

Joe Biden gave Afghanistan to the Taliban

Wow.
Some people really need to learn some history.

Let me get you started:

Trump signed a deal (in Qatar) with the terrorists long before he lost (yes, lost) the election. That deal was signed in Feb 2020, when there were still about 13,000 American troops in Afghanistan.

"The Trump administration agreed to an initial reduction of its force level from 13,000 to 8,600 by July 2020, followed by a full withdrawal by May 1, 2021, if the Taliban kept its commitments"

That's right. Under Trump all the troops would have been out of the country months ago.

A part of the deal Trump made was that the US would no longer directly engage the terrorists.

Giving those terrorists free reign to train and equip and plan while Trump started reducing the number of troops in the country.

Between February and November, over 8,000 troops were sent back the USA, leaving barely 5,000 in Afghanistan.

Then, in November of 2020, Trump announced he was cutting that number by 50% !! (Look it up - the articles are from around 16 November 2020.)

That means when Biden took over, there were barely 2,500 American troops left in the whole country, including the ones guarding the Embassy and those still at the Bagram Air Base !

Yet some people want to blame Biden for the Taliban's success ?
As though those 2,500 troops would have made any difference at all ?

Not to mention that 5 days ago, American "Intelligence" estimated it would take the Taliban 3-12 months to take over.

Of course, almost no one (except me) was expecting the entire Afghan Army to immediately surrender the instant they saw any sign of anyone carrying a weapon.

I expected it because that is, literally, the history of war in Afghanistan. Whenever they have a war, when one side starts to lose, they will most often simply switch sides and start fighting for whoever they think is most likely to win.

Even if that's in the middle of a battle !! They will strike a deal with the "enemy" and then suddenly turn around and start attacking the people who were their friends and allies minutes earlier !

(The Afghan civil war that followed the Russian withdrawal was full of stories of warlords switching sides in the middle of battles.)

News articles over the last few days noted Army units simply surrendering and handing over their weapons and equipment without firing a shot.
Recent reports mentioned seeing Taliban fighters and Afghan Army soldiers mingling around the Kabul airport.

(Probably trying to find out where they've stashed all the alcohol and porn that gets confiscated by Customs.)

And yet some people think that the 2,500 soldiers Trump left in Afghanistan would have been able to stop the Taliban ?

Trump's deal with the terrorists in Feb 2020 set the stage for this to happen.

(BTW - I left the Canadian military, after 22 years of service, to go work in Afghanistan back in 2003. I ended up spending just over 10 years there.)

[AussieBob]

Bush - Trump - Biden - they are all to blame - some more than others.  The problem is that USA believes that it has to 'help' the situation in the World - and it does. Without USA money the UN and many other 'world'  organisations would be either broke, or reliant on Chinese and Russian money - so they are stuck.  Since WW2 it has been the 'role' of USA to 'police' world problems in order to try and stop another WW from happening. There are many examples of where their help has succeeded - never perfectly - but overall it has been a success. Personally I feel they should pull out completely and let them all go to Hell or China - until they ask - and until they pay. It will only be when the world realises that we need USA - when USA has gone. 

I feel sad for all those troops and their families that served.  Just as I do for all those that served in Germany and Japan and Vietnam  etc etc etc.  It was not all a fruitless exercise - would you want to be in a world ruled/run by Hitler or Japan as it was pre-WW2? Will the Taliban stop in Afghanistan or will they spread across to the Middle East?  What will they do with all that money if they do?  Why should American families pay one more life??  Was all their deaths in Europe and the Pacific and Afghanistan really needed?? Ask yourself those questions before slagging off at Biden and Trump and Bush - and remember that they didn't pay the price - the Americans who served and their families did.  

[Changnam43]

Apparently the US military are considering a replacement for the Humvee.

Well they will have to after giving them all to the Taliban.

[9S_]

23 minutes ago, kerryd said:

Trump signed a deal (in Qatar) with the terrorists long before he lost (yes, lost) the election. That deal was signed in Feb 2020, when there were still about 13,000 American troops in Afghanistan.

"The Trump administration agreed to an initial reduction of its force level from 13,000 to 8,600 by July 2020, followed by a full withdrawal by May 1, 2021, if the Taliban kept its commitments"

That's right. Under Trump all the troops would have been out of the country months ago.

A part of the deal Trump made was that the US would no longer directly engage the terrorists.

Giving those terrorists free reign to train and equip and plan while Trump started reducing the number of troops in the country.

Between February and November, over 8,000 troops were sent back the USA, leaving barely 5,000 in Afghanistan.

Then, in November of 2020, Trump announced he was cutting that number by 50% !! (Look it up - the articles are from around 16 November 2020.)

Zero provincial capitals lost during Trumps troop drawdown. Last I checked Kabul was still in Non-Taliban hands when the Resident assumed office. I say that’s a success!

 

24 minutes ago, kerryd said:

That means when Biden took over, there were barely 2,500 American troops left in the whole country, including the ones guarding the Embassy and those still at the Bagram Air Base !

And Biden became the Resident…Afghanistan fell in less than a year he was in office! They took all the provincial capitals and Kabul and seized nearly $1 Billion in US military equipment. A total failure all under Bidens watch, not Trumps