Police and protesters clash at increasingly aggressive protests

[TiT]

I'm sure the big boss is starting to get annoyed at these locusts in the streets.

[AussieBob]

17 hours ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

Nothing changes until that is dealt with.

Wrong.  Nothing changes if that is dealt with first. Many times in the past the history of Thailand shows that it divides the country. Alignment of the current 'players' has been achieved, since Democracy first emerged after discord between them. For decades now, if you attack one, you attack both.  Divide and Conquer is the only long term strategy that will succeed IMO. 

[AussieBob]

On 8/8/2021 at 1:54 PM, Stonker said:

The protesters here were from Redem, previously Free Youth.

They have no broad base of support here, and they've alienated much of the support they may have otherwise had by their adoption of "communist" ideologies and logos, particularly their flag which is effectively a hammer and sickle  -  regardless of whether Thais are pro or anti monarchy, very, very few support Redem and a "communist" regime.

Very true - most Thais do not want to become like China. But I think you underestimate how much Thais support the Monarchy.

[Poolie]

Thailand cant become China, neither in scale or ideology, even if it wants to. Not even like it. Its a sea change.

[AussieBob]

4 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Thailand cant become China, neither in scale or ideology, even if it wants to. Not even like it. Its a sea change.

Certainly not in scale, but China has a 'desired outcome' and that is that SEAsia is united economically and politically.  I agree that the Thailand people will seriously resist any change in ideology, but the reality is that things can and do change over decades.  Unlike in the west where things have to happen in an election cycle, China has always taken a long term view to things - they have 5, 10 and 20 year plans.  

[9S_]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:23 AM, poohy said:

More importantly Why i wonder is grand palace surrounded by oil  tankers

I thought nobody lived there and it was a historical tourist spot. 

[9S_]

Well at least they didn’t burn down places, looted stores or murder anyone. 

[gummy]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:23 AM, poohy said:

More importantly Why i wonder is grand palace surrounded by oil  tankers

I have not been to look myself but the pictures shown on TV and in reports have only shown several shipping containers, not oil tankers.

[Poolie]

11 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Certainly not in scale, but China has a 'desired outcome' and that is that SEAsia is united economically and politically.  I agree that the Thailand people will seriously resist any change in ideology, but the reality is that things can and do change over decades.  Unlike in the west where things have to happen in an election cycle, China has always taken a long term view to things - they have 5, 10 and 20 year plans.  

True, except the politics. It works for them, wouldnt work for others.

[AussieBob]

6 minutes ago, Poolie said:

True, except the politics. It works for them, wouldnt work for others.

Maybe - maybe not.  Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar are all socialist states - heavily militarily controlled. Only Thailand and Cambodia are viewed as 'democracies', but lets face it, Thailand's democracy is not real, nor is the Cambodian democracy. Both Thailand and Cambodia are Monarchies - but they are both States where the military/communists are very much in control - even though they hold 'elections'. China holds 'elections' too if you did not know - and I would not call them democratic in any way.

Taiwan was created when the 'democratic' people of China escaped before they were all killed.  In the early days of Mao it was a good solution for the Communists - they were busy tearing down the country and rebuilding a Communist country (removing people who did not agree) and they did not have the time or want yet another war.  It has only been through USA support that Taiwan has remained 'independent' and alive.  Meanwhile China pours dirt into the ocean and then claims 'ownership' of an island and 300-400 square kilometres of the surrounding Sth China Sea - all as part of their long term plan to isolate and take back Taiwan - by force if necessary.  

[Poolie]

26 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Maybe - maybe not.  Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar are all socialist states - heavily militarily controlled. Only Thailand and Cambodia are viewed as 'democracies', but lets face it, Thailand's democracy is not real, nor is the Cambodian democracy. Both Thailand and Cambodia are Monarchies - but they are both States where the military/communists are very much in control - even though they hold 'elections'. China holds 'elections' too if you did not know - and I would not call them democratic in any way.

Taiwan was created when the 'democratic' people of China escaped before they were all killed.  In the early days of Mao it was a good solution for the Communists - they were busy tearing down the country and rebuilding a Communist country (removing people who did not agree) and they did not have the time or want yet another war.  It has only been through USA support that Taiwan has remained 'independent' and alive.  Meanwhile China pours dirt into the ocean and then claims 'ownership' of an island and 300-400 square kilometres of the surrounding Sth China Sea - all as part of their long term plan to isolate and take back Taiwan - by force if necessary.  

Taiwan was an existing part of China when the Kou Min Tang emptied the Chinese coffers and fled there to bring an end to the civil war which they were badly losing. They still have various heads of mainland provinces. USA supports it because it holds the key to the straits. They'd be knackered without access to them.  Taiwan is also a member of the disputed island group. The have regularly been involved with Vietnam on the matter and in fact claimed the whole of the islands in the South China Sea. They arent blameless.

Yes, I did know that China holds democratic elections. Every two years I believe.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Poolie

[AussieBob]

1 minute ago, Poolie said:

Taiwan was an existing part of China when the Kou Min Tang emptied the Chinese coffers and fled there to bring an end to the civil war which they were badly losing. They still have various heads of mainland provinces. USA supports it because it holds the key to the straits. They'd be knackered without access to them.  Taiwan is also a member of the disputed island group. The have regularly been involved with Vietnam on the matter and in fact claimed the whole of the islands in the South China Sea. They arent blameless.

True.  But it was stay and die or flee - the Communists were taking no prisoners - they reckon more died than the number under Stalin.  Any attempt by Taiwan to claim islands was done to counter China's ever growing claims. That China has resorted to 'building' new islands shows how well Taiwan has done.  Yes - not blameless - but unlike Hong Kong, if China took over Taiwan there would be a massive purge (and nil media exposure about it all).  As it is China took a long term view to their 'take back' of Hong Kong, and those that stayed based on their initial promises of a separate state and certain freedoms, are now very much regretting that decision (not those who took the brown envelopes and promotions on offer). 

 

[poohy]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

I have not been to look myself but the pictures shown on TV and in reports have only shown several shipping containers, not oil tankers.

Here's one from a thai news source i do have others but not sure if its wise post them

[MikeW]

21 hours ago, Stonker said:

Thanks, @K C, but apart from wanting a debate or a quarrel I don't really know what point @Stardust's trying to make.

It was a Redem demo - everyone except @Stardust says that, whether in the media, social media, or the protesters themselves.  Some who are "UDD and red shirts ... and many other groups" support them, but it was still a Redem demo and Redem have minimal support in Thailand.

Thais generally simply don't like "communists"  -  and I'm deliberately using the label  as it has very clear connotations in Thailand and for Thais of every generation and political persuasion  -  and Redem have gone out of their way to paint themselves as "communists".

Do you have a link to some more information on Redem I tried to google it but nothing came up or I just didn't go far enough down the list. I am interested in finding out more 

[gummy]

3 minutes ago, poohy said:

Here's one from a thai news source i do have others but not sure if its wise post them

Well I didn't see those, many thanks . Maybe the next thing they will litter the area with is crushed or wrecked cars/pickups. No shortage of those either.

[Poolie]

15 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Do you have a link to some more information on Redem I tried to google it but nothing came up or I just didn't go far enough down the list. I am interested in finding out more 

Check out the NED site.

[Poolie]

50 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

True.  But it was stay and die or flee - the Communists were taking no prisoners - they reckon more died than the number under Stalin.  Any attempt by Taiwan to claim islands was done to counter China's ever growing claims. That China has resorted to 'building' new islands shows how well Taiwan has done.  Yes - not blameless - but unlike Hong Kong, if China took over Taiwan there would be a massive purge (and nil media exposure about it all).  As it is China took a long term view to their 'take back' of Hong Kong, and those that stayed based on their initial promises of a separate state and certain freedoms, are now very much regretting that decision (not those who took the brown envelopes and promotions on offer). 

That doesn't explain the dispute Taiwan has with Vietnam? China never promised a 'separate state' for Hong Kong? They said they would maintain the status quo. Hence the SAR.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Poolie
Omission