Thursday Covid Update: High of 20,920 new cases and 160 deaths

[KWOG]

5 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well, detail your alternative then.

It's very easy to disagree and dislike, but you don't seem able to actually come up with anything constructive as an alternative.

... and as Churchhill said, "Fear is a reaction. Courage is a decision".

You don't seem to have much courage, despite all your talk about fear.

A.) I briefly stated the alternative already.   Can whittle it down further if you like. No lockdowns. 

B.) I'll play you a game of scrabble for 1000 dollars and spot you the S's. 

[Stonker]

56 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

We know the answer - lockdowns.  And it is not 99% - that is a falsehood.  Covid is proven to kill 2.2% of those infected - which is 4-5 times more than the common flu.  But, and this is the big thing, it is extremely aggressive in certain people.  Although it might not kill a person, it can make them seriously ill and it causes lots of complications that take up the available medical resources.  I have a mate who thought the same as you - until he caught it.  If it was not for a friend who called the ambulance he would have died trying to prove it was just a flu.  He was in ICU for 4 days and hospital for 3 weeks - he lost almost 15kgs in weight. That was over 6 months ago - he was 'effed' for almost 2 months - and he is still 'not 100%'. 

Just the other day over here in Aust a young man died after being sick for 3 days - his wife was admitted to hospital - but he said he was OK.  They found him dead in bed the next day. He was 27 and fit and no smoking no alcohol and no underlying medical issues at all.  The flu does not kill people like that - it kills very old very sick people. 

Google John Eyers Covid.

What a terrible, pointless, stupid and totally unnecessary waste.

[KWOG]

16 minutes ago, Stonker said:

What part of this don't you understand:

If there were only those three choices, formulated by you (which of course is a false premise but)

that'd be real easy. Number 1.  Here's how i'd put it though. 

There was one government action that I thought might have been of some use when the virus first appeared...refusing entry to anyone from affected countries. In hindsight even that probably would have been useless, would have had to be maintained too long and too tightly to be tenable. But once it's in a country, a continent, I don't think there was ever any better option than doing more or less nothing, letting it spread, even encouraging it...let the 99.xx percent fight it off as they lived their lives, the vast majority not even noticing they had it, and bury the rest. The idea that the government was going to keep this virus out of your or my bloodstream was patently ludicrous from the start.

Edited August 5, 2021 by KWOG

[mcambl61]

37 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

So your going into politics?

And the data rate for the numbers infected? That are carrier’s?

But, one thing to remember, as you say it’s the older generation at risk, …. What Generation have political and financial control of this country? 

Not sure what you are going on about. 

You aren't making any valid points or suggestions, just pointless blather. 

 

Come back with something sane and salient. 

[Stonker]

5 minutes ago, KWOG said:

If there were only those three choices, formulated by you (which of course is a false premise but)

that'd be real easy. Number 1. 

That was why I said "If you can think of another option, then feel free ......".

 

All too evidently, you can't.

11 minutes ago, KWOG said:

B.) I'll play you a game of scrabble for 1000 dollars and spot you the S's. 

No thanks.

 

I don't play board games with people who are self-centred insults to humanity - I don't even bother kicking the sh1t out of them when they annoy me any more.

[KWOG]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

That was why I said "If you can think of another option, then feel free ......".

All too evidently, you can't.

No thanks.

I don't play board games with people who are self-centred insults to humanity - I don't even bother kicking the sh1t out of them when they annoy me any more.

All too evidently, I have, here and elsewhere, and kicking the sh8t out of me never was and never would be an option for you.  But of course you knew that. 

 

 

[stuhan]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

It's a question of the degree of lockdown required.

In order to shield and secure the third of the population that are vulnerable, with the other two-thirds carrying on a "normal" life, the third that are vulnerable would have to be shielded, isolated, quarantined and supervised.  That would require not only the facilities to do so, but the staff.

In Thailand the facilities simply don't exist.  Even with only 150,000 active cases, there are still some 20,000 just in Bangkok who have nowhere to be quarantined. A third of the country isn't 150,000 though, it's over a hundred times that.

Even if the facilities did somehow exist, though, and many could shield at home, who would staff and look after them?  

If you lockdown the whole country, though, allowing essential services to continue and limited shopping and exercise, then you can still give the vulnerable third the same level of protection but without needing the facilities or the staff to shield and supervise them.

There are simply three choices:

Option 1. Forget about the vulnerable and let them die. Treatment isn't an option, as that would overwhelm the medical services and treating Covid cases would be all they could do.

Option 2. Shield the vulnerable third indefinitely, until everyone can be vaccinated.  Impossible, unfortunately, as there are neither the facilities nor the staff.

Option 3. Lockdowns for all, with realistic but limited restrictions to balance protection and inconvenience.

If you can think of another option, then feel free ......

3

[mcambl61]

20 minutes ago, Stonker said:

That was why I said "If you can think of another option, then feel free ......".

All too evidently, you can't.

No thanks.

I don't play board games with people who are self-centred insults to humanity - I don't even bother kicking the sh1t out of them when they annoy me any more.

Actually, he did give you alternatives. 

 

You don't have to agree with it, but you also have no idea if the current draconian approach is the solution either, especially given the massive long term effects to tens of millions of people's livelihood and mental health. 

 

As far as your ridiculous high opinion of your moral superiority or what you determine is an insult to humanity, well, we will chalk that up to the ever present self anointed high and mighty standard of the leftist virtue signaling. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by mcambl61

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Donald said:

Easy talk from a position of privilege. If the choice is starvation and desperation or possibly catching a virus with a survival chance of 99% plus, then I think I know what the answer from most people will be.

People who advocate “letting it rip” are also missing the point that this virus is already aggressively mutating. The Delta variant being the last major mutation is now the one causing the most problems. Without keeping numbers under control globally, we could already be at variant Omega which could be more contagious and more lethal. It’s also likely that a variant could come along and kill younger people more then older. Just 100 years ago, the Spanish flu killed mainly healthy 20-40 year olds. Virus management needs to strategies. Containment and vaccination. Thailand needs to balance its containment and speed up its vaccination. 

[vlad]

Pointless answering these threads the deniers will never accept anything. So there's  little point. They just spoil a thread.

[stuhan]

50 minutes ago, KWOG said:

Hate to beat a dead horse, but again, how could it easier or more workable to lock down an entire population than a small portion of it.  To continue the horse analogy, would you rather be paid 1000 dollars for corralling  100 horses or paid 1000 dollars for corralling a dozen.  

We all have our opinions & views,but they won't change anything, this goverment will do things their way,so just lets see how it pans out and stay safe.

[mcambl61]

59 minutes ago, vlad said:

Pointless answering these threads the deniers will never accept anything. So there's  little point. They just spoil a thread.

You mean the "deniers" that do not agree with your opinions spoil the thread. Or your "approved" sources of information and data. 

 

That is intellectually lazy and arrogant. 

 

But you do you vlad. 

[mcambl61]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

People who advocate “letting it rip” are also missing the point that this virus is already aggressively mutating. The Delta variant being the last major mutation is now the one causing the most problems. Without keeping numbers under control globally, we could already be at variant Omega which could be more contagious and more lethal. It’s also likely that a variant could come along and kill younger people more then older. Just 100 years ago, the Spanish flu killed mainly healthy 20-40 year olds. Virus management needs to strategies. Containment and vaccination. Thailand needs to balance its containment and speed up its vaccination. 

The delta variant is not more fatal, just more contagious. 

 

Stop the ridiculous fear mongering and destruction of the world economy and hundreds of millions of people's lives. 

[pascal]

3 hours ago, dmacarelli said:

I saw an image of a farmer working in his field, with his father, wearing a mask. Out in the open, working meters away from someone he shares a home with. This is a good indication of how scared the people are, and how successful the authorities have been with regard to instilling an overly toxic level of fear into the hearts and minds of the people. 

What could possibly be more insane, and less science based behaviour, than wearing a mask out on a farm with no people around? I saw another guy the other day driving his car with a mask on. Nobody in the car with him. Huh?

This is not Bubonic plague. This is Covid. Yet, one would think this is the Zombie Apocalypse and the end of the world. 

maybe because these farmer are not educated enough to understand the whole picture of what is going on, this is simple of that. for sure they won't come to this forum to to say some insanity as you just did. give a chance to your brain man. it is annoying to read all this stupidity about conspiracy, fear spreading, dictature and so on. you guys do not see more far that the tip of your nose and in most of case have just selfish behaviour. fact are there, there is a bug running all around the world, it is highly infectious and it is killing.......how many more dead do you wanna see before to say " yes finally it is not not just a flu" .......i get a bad wish ...... go meet up  with some infected peoples, catch the virus, and then come back to let us know how it is .....will you?  you know what i bet my life you won t do that.

[mcambl61]

4 minutes ago, pascal said:

maybe because these farmer are not educated enough to understand the whole picture of what is going on, this is simple of that. for sure they won't come to this forum to to say some insanity as you just did. give a chance to your brain man. it is annoying to read all this stupidity about conspiracy, fear spreading, dictature and so on. you guys do not see more far that the tip of your nose and in most of case have just selfish behaviour. fact are there, there is a bug running all around the world, it is highly infectious and it is killing.......how many more dead do you wanna see before to say " yes finally it is not not just a flu" .......i get a bad wish ...... go meet up  with some infected peoples, catch the virus, and then come back to let us know how it is .....will you?  you know what i bet my life you won t do that.

There it is again, another pseudo intellectual pretending that his opinion is "educated" and those who disagree are ignorant. 

 

Look, the data and the risk groups are plainly obvious. The destruction of tens of millions of people's lives and businesses is not an acceptable solution. 

 

Get over it. 

[Guevara]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

It could be that. Or it could be that we have has so few numbers because of the lockdowns. Same thing applies in Taiwan and Singapore.  And dont forget, although the Chinese numbers are dubious, China did succeed in stopping the spread because they introduced draconian lockdowns.  

Perhaps Australia and New Zealand were just being proactive (hope for the best, prepare for the worst). 

I think your descriptive term 'draconian' was polite and diplomatic regarding the Chinese lockdown. My former colleagues in HK have been on regular Imodium for months for fear of rocking the CCP boat. I trained them well, their skills in Medicine are exemplary and they know when to keep their lips sealed.

[Guevara]

21 minutes ago, pascal said:

maybe because these farmer are not educated enough to understand the whole picture of what is going on, this is simple of that. for sure they won't come to this forum to to say some insanity as you just did. give a chance to your brain man. it is annoying to read all this stupidity about conspiracy, fear spreading, dictature and so on. you guys do not see more far that the tip of your nose and in most of case have just selfish behaviour. fact are there, there is a bug running all around the world, it is highly infectious and it is killing.......how many more dead do you wanna see before to say " yes finally it is not not just a flu" .......i get a bad wish ...... go meet up  with some infected peoples, catch the virus, and then come back to let us know how it is .....will you?  you know what i bet my life you won t do that.

Always remember Pascal, you can't educate pork!

[Donald]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

People who advocate “letting it rip” are also missing the point that this virus is already aggressively mutating. The Delta variant being the last major mutation is now the one causing the most problems. Without keeping numbers under control globally, we could already be at variant Omega which could be more contagious and more lethal. It’s also likely that a variant could come along and kill younger people more then older. Just 100 years ago, the Spanish flu killed mainly healthy 20-40 year olds. Virus management needs to strategies. Containment and vaccination. Thailand needs to balance its containment and speed up its vaccination. 

Vaccination ? It is now common knowledge that the vaccination doesn't prevent catching and getting sick with Covid 19. Nor does it prevent passing it on to others. It actually doesn't live up to the definition of vaccine. It only has an emergency approval and the manufacturers have been assured total immunity from any responsibility for side effects. Never the less they are allowed to profit massively from the "product". Meanwhile everybody is being coerced by any means imaginable to submit to this gigantic experiment. There has been no liberty into making an individual decision based upon reliable information. Anything that is challenging the official narrative is labelled fake news and gets  censored, ridiculed and criminalized .

[Guevara]

29 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

You mean the "deniers" that do not agree with your opinions spoil the thread. Or your "approved" sources of information and data. 

That is intellectually lazy and arrogant. 

But you do you vlad. 

Do you suffer with Myopia? Are you taking Phenothiazines?

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, Donald said:

Vaccination ? It is now common knowledge that the vaccination doesn't prevent catching and getting sick with Covid 19. Nor does it prevent passing it on to others. It actually doesn't live up to the definition of vaccine. It only has an emergency approval and the manufacturers have been assured total immunity from any responsibility for side effects. Never the less they are allowed to profit massively from the "product". Meanwhile everybody is being coerced by any means imaginable to submit to this gigantic experiment. There has been no liberty into making an individual decision based upon reliable information. Anything that is challenging the official narrative is labelled fake news and gets  censored, ridiculed and criminalized .

Absolutely spot on! 

Just for my curiosity > Was this your - imo absolutely correct - view from the very beginning of the vaccine roll-out or did the available data and the often ridiculous lies by its proponents convince you that we are being 'played'.

[mcambl61]

4 minutes ago, Guevara said:

Do you suffer with Myopia? Are you taking Phenothiazines?

Do you realize that your opinions are not the determining factor in what is right or "educated" 

 

Try getting out of the bubble you are in. 

[mcambl61]

8 minutes ago, Guevara said:

Always remember Pascal, you can't educate pork!

Are you assuming that you are somehow more "educated" because of the opinions you have? 

 

That would be the definition of arrogance and ignorance. 

[BlueSphinx]

13 minutes ago, Guevara said:

Always remember Pascal, you can't educate pork!

True, I tried it with the little rose piglet but failed miserably.

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

Odd that you've quoted me but left out the key part, which you failed to reply to:

Here it is again:

"Name anywhere where they've had a properly regulated lockdown where the spread hasn't been reduced, at least long enough to give some breathing space and vaccines rolled out.

Anywhere at all."

OK, here it goes.

Michigan: very strict: 21K died. Population 10M.

California: very strict: 64K died. Pop: 39,5M

New York: very strict: 53K died, Pop: 19,4M

Texas: medium strict: 52K died, Pop: 29M

Florida: relaxed since fall 2020: 39K died. Pop: 21,5M. Florida has also a lot older population than most other states. Florida won this one.

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/

 

[mcambl61]

6 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

OK, here it goes.

Michigan: very strict: 21K died. Population 10M.

California: very strict: 64K died. Pop: 39,5M

New York: very strict: 53K died, Pop: 19,4M

Texas: medium strict: 52K died, Pop: 29M

Florida: relaxed since fall 2020: 39K died. Pop: 21,5M. Florida has also a lot older population than most other states. Florida won this one.

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/

Well presented sir... 

 

Leftists don't like reality and data in proper context. 

 

It really damages the titanium bubble they exist in, protected and reinforced by corrupt media narratives. 

 

Bravo.