Thursday Covid Update: High of 20,920 new cases and 160 deaths

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

People who advocate “letting it rip” are also missing the point that this virus is already aggressively mutating. The Delta variant being the last major mutation is now the one causing the most problems. Without keeping numbers under control globally, we could already be at variant Omega which could be more contagious and more lethal. It’s also likely that a variant could come along and kill younger people more then older. Just 100 years ago, the Spanish flu killed mainly healthy 20-40 year olds. Virus management needs to strategies. Containment and vaccination. Thailand needs to balance its containment and speed up its vaccination. 

They messed it up already with the vaccination and you cannot lock up the people til this mess is solved just because they would starve to death. They have families to feed to think there is a choice is naiv because they are already poor . There was a statistic in Bangkok post and the new number was 84% of Thais have nothing anymore left (money on bankaccounts) to survive a long lockdown. 84% of the whole population this give you the answer, they have no choice anymore. People who talking about more lockdown etc . really have zero knowledge about the situation of the Thai people. To force them to be locked when they hae no more money is like provoking violence and war. Or is there anybody from any commentators who would stay at home and starve to death or let their kids starve to death?!!

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

Actually, he did give you alternatives. 

You don't have to agree with it, but you also have no idea if the current draconian approach is the solution either, especially given the massive long term effects to tens of millions of people's livelihood and mental health. 

As far as your ridiculous high opinion of your moral superiority or what you determine is an insult to humanity, well, we will chalk that up to the ever present self anointed high and mighty standard of the leftist virtue signaling. 

Yes he did, unfortunately as an edit and after I'd already replied.

 

Even more unfortunately his entire argument is based on an idea that is patently false - namely that "99.xx%" of the population can "fight it off as they lived their lives, the vast majority not even noticing they had it".

 

It's what you'd call a "ridiculous" idea, with "zero consideration of the data", but it's way beyond "truly obtuse".

 

The only reason fatalities have been so low is because lockdowns have put a brake on transmissions and so most healthcare systems have been able to cope and to treat those with Covid.  Take off that brake completely as he and you advocate and even the most truly obtuse person around would see that fatalities would spiral.

 

It's as obtuse as having a rabid dog in a cage and then saying that it's fine to release it as it only bit one person before it was caged so it's not a threat.

 

"Truly obtuse" doesn't even go near this level of ignorance.

 

 

[BeingFrank]

The steady increase in infections makes the Prime Minister claim that this crisis will be over in a few weeks seems almost laughable. We have booked for 7 weeks in November but even this prospect seems increasingly unlikely.

[mcambl61]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Yes he did, unfortunately as an edit and after I'd already replied.

Even more unfortunately his entire argument is based on an idea that is patently false - namely that "99.xx%" of the population can "fight it off as they lived their lives, the vast majority not even noticing they had it".

It's what you'd call a "ridiculous" idea, with "zero consideration of the data", but it's way beyond "truly obtuse".

The only reason fatalities have been so low is because lockdowns have put a brake on transmissions and so most healthcare systems have been able to cope and to treat those with Covid.  Take off that brake completely as he and you advocate and even the most truly obtuse person around would see that fatalities would spiral.

It's as obtuse as having a rabid dog in a cage and then saying that it's fine to release it as it only bit one person before it was caged so it's not a threat.

"Truly obtuse" doesn't even go near this level of ignorance.

Your irrational emotional premise dictates a zero risk attempt while destroying exponentially more people's lives and businesses. 

 

It's ridiculous. 

 

You constantly ignore the actual known at risk groups and fatality rates while moral preening that you have more concerns for the population.

 

You don’t. 

If you think taking the same ridiculous draconian approach after months of data and vaccines, you are just plainly wrong. 

[Stardust]

11 minutes ago, Stardust said:

They messed it up already with the vaccination and you cannot lock up the people til this mess is solved just because they would starve to death. They have families to feed to think there is a choice is naiv because they are already poor . There was a statistic in Bangkok post and the new number was 84% of Thais have nothing anymore left (money on bankaccounts) to survive a long lockdown. 84% of the whole population this give you the answer, they have no choice anymore. People who talking about more lockdown etc . really have zero knowledge about the situation of the Thai people. To force them to be locked when they hae no more money is like provoking violence and war. Or is there anybody from any commentators who would stay at home and starve to death or let their kids starve to death?!!

The title of the article in Bangkik post was

" how to save a country when it is broke"

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

As far as your ridiculous high opinion of your moral superiority or what you determine is an insult to humanity, well, we will chalk that up to the ever present self anointed high and mighty standard of the leftist virtue signaling. 

It's not my opinion of "my" moral superiority, but my opinion of humanity's over the animals' - it's what sets us apart, although sadly there are a growing number of exceptions who are always the first to cry for help when they want it after they've denied that help to others.

 

As for it being "leftist", you evidently fail to understand left and right wing as you do so much else; helping the weak is an obligation of the strong, regardless of political persuasion.

[Guevara]

44 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Do you realize that your opinions are not the determining factor in what is right or "educated" 

Try getting out of the bubble you are in. 

When you have studied virology, immunology, cross contamination and worked in an isolation Hospital/quarantine unit, please feel free to preach to me or lecture me. I find self appointed 'experts' tiresome.

[Guevara]

46 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Are you assuming that you are somehow more "educated" because of the opinions you have? 

That would be the definition of arrogance and ignorance. 

Not at all, it's called studying, education and hands on. Try it, it might open your blinkered eyes.

[pascal]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

There it is again, another pseudo intellectual pretending that his opinion is "educated" and those who disagree are ignorant. 

Look, the data and the risk groups are plainly obvious. The destruction of tens of millions of people's lives and businesses is not an acceptable solution. 

Get over it. 

what ever you said man..... you are indeed from a superior race ........ 

[mcambl61]

Just now, pascal said:

what ever you said man..... you are indeed from a superior race ........ 

No, I'm not. That's the point that you missed entirely. 

[mcambl61]

8 minutes ago, Guevara said:

When you have studied virology, immunology, cross contamination and worked in an isolation Hospital/quarantine unit, please feel free to preach to me or lecture me. I find self appointed 'experts' tiresome.

You certainly are not an expert. But I am sure you think you are. But then keyboard warriors are easy to find. 

[pascal]

54 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Are you assuming that you are somehow more "educated" because of the opinions you have? 

That would be the definition of arrogance and ignorance. 

geeeezzzzzz you really don t get dude ........

[pascal]

2 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

No, I'm not. That's the point that you missed entirely. 

as quoted whatever you said , you want be right be right and this makes you dangerous. 

[mcambl61]

23 minutes ago, Stonker said:

It's not my opinion of "my" moral superiority, but my opinion of humanity's over the animals' - it's what sets us apart, although sadly there are a growing number of exceptions who are always the first to cry for help when they want it after they've denied that help to others.

As for it being "leftist", you evidently fail to understand left and right wing as you do so much else; helping the weak is an obligation of the strong, regardless of political persuasion.

Again, you are not the judge of my humanity or anyone else's. The fact that you think you do is a perfect example of your arrogance. 

 

You think you have that right based on your opinions. You don't. 

 

No one said a word about who is or is not helping others. Just because I disagree with you does not have anything to do with helping others. 

 

It's the ridiculous arrogant notion of leftists that their views on society are somehow more humane or caring than those who disagree with their ideology. 

 

You have no idea about me or anyone else's actions to help others. 

 

You don't get to decide what "obligation" anyone else has to help society or by what means. 

 

Leftists think they get to decide what others have to "give" to satisfy their ideology.  They have no right to determine that for anyone but themselves. 

[mcambl61]

7 minutes ago, pascal said:

as quoted whatever you said , you want be right be right and this makes you dangerous. 

No, but I am sure you think you have the right to determine what is dangerous. 

 

You don’t. 

[Stonker]

4 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Your irrational emotional premise dictates a zero risk attempt while destroying exponentially more people's lives and businesses. 

It's ridiculous. 

You constantly ignore the actual known at risk groups and fatality rates while moral preening that you have more concerns for the population.

You don’t. 

If you think taking the same ridiculous draconian approach after months of data and vaccines, you are just plainly wrong. 

I'm not sure what you've been reading, but it doesn't seem to be based on what anyone's written!

 

Of course it's not "zero risk" - I've never so much as hinted that it is. 

 

... and how can I "constantly ignore the known at risk groups and fatality rates" when I've detailed and quantified what the risk groups are according to the medical experts, unanimously, even if some here don't agree!

 

... and I'm not supporting any "ridiculous draconian approach" here, as amongst its many faults it hasn't been draconian!

[mcambl61]

19 minutes ago, Guevara said:

Not at all, it's called studying, education and hands on. Try it, it might open your blinkered eyes.

The data is obvious. 

 

You can either ignore it or deal with it. 

 

Your "education" has nothing to do with the understanding the data or the fatality rate or the destruction of hundreds of millions of people's lives and the associated businesses. 

[pascal]

3 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

No, but I am sure you think you have the right to determine what is dangerous. 

You don’t. 

that is arrogant .......

[mcambl61]

2 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm not sure what you've been reading, but it doesn't seem to be based on what anyone's written!

Of course it's not "zero risk" - I've never so much as hinted that it is. 

... and how can I "constantly ignore the known at risk groups and fatality rates" when I've detailed and quantified what the risk groups are according to the medical experts, unanimously, even if some here don't agree!

... and I'm not supporting any "ridiculous draconian approach" here, as amongst its many faults it hasn't been draconian!

Of course it's been draconian. The entire Thai economy and the majority of the population are on the brink of total and complete financial ruin. 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

The delta variant is not more fatal, just more contagious. 

I never said the Delta variant was more fatal. I said that the virus will mutate the more we allow it to spread and that a mutation could become more fatal. I’m spreading no fear. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

They messed it up already with the vaccination and you cannot lock up the people til this mess is solved just because they would starve to death. They have families to feed to think there is a choice is naiv because they are already poor . There was a statistic in Bangkok post and the new number was 84% of Thais have nothing anymore left (money on bankaccounts) to survive a long lockdown. 84% of the whole population this give you the answer, they have no choice anymore. People who talking about more lockdown etc . really have zero knowledge about the situation of the Thai people. To force them to be locked when they hae no more money is like provoking violence and war. Or is there anybody from any commentators who would stay at home and starve to death or let their kids starve to death?!!

Yes I agree with all of that. But it’s about how the government support lockdown. People shouldn’t be saying lockdown is not the right thing to do. What they should be saying is supported lockdown is what’s needed. People should be given money (and the government can certainly get it) to support people properly. It’s not lockdown that’s wrong, it’s unsupported lockdown that’s wrong 

[mcambl61]

6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I never said the Delta variant was more fatal. I said that the virus will mutate the more we allow it to spread and that a mutation could become more fatal. I’m spreading no fear. 

There is no legitimate evidence that a mutation would be more fatal. 

Fomenting more Fear mongering is not helping anyone. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

Vaccination ? It is now common knowledge that the vaccination doesn't prevent catching and getting sick with Covid 19. Nor does it prevent passing it on to others. It actually doesn't live up to the definition of vaccine. It only has an emergency approval and the manufacturers have been assured total immunity from any responsibility for side effects. Never the less they are allowed to profit massively from the "product". Meanwhile everybody is being coerced by any means imaginable to submit to this gigantic experiment. There has been no liberty into making an individual decision based upon reliable information. Anything that is challenging the official narrative is labelled fake news and gets  censored, ridiculed and criminalized .

Agreed it doesn’t stop you catching it, but it does reduce the chances of catching it. There is also evidence that it reduces the chances of you passing it on. The very fact it will reduce the numbers of people catching it, by definition says there are fewer people who can pass it on.  
 

I don’t believe there is an “official narrative”. What there is, is a consistent view from all countries who have either already vaccinated many people or have done real world trial. The vaccines don’t make you immune, but they do reduce the problem and cut serious illness and deaths. 

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

There is no legitimate evidence that a mutation would be more fatal. 

Fomenting more Fear mongering is not helping anyone. 

I never said there was evidence that a mutation would be more fatal. I said it increases the probability. I also said a future mutation could not necessarily be more fatal, but could affect a younger and working age group, just as Spanish flu did. I think you should read my original post more carefully and be less keen to criticise the current vaccines. Now that is spreading fear !! 

[billybob]

1 hour ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

OK, here it goes.

Michigan: very strict: 21K died. Population 10M.

California: very strict: 64K died. Pop: 39,5M

New York: very strict: 53K died, Pop: 19,4M

Texas: medium strict: 52K died, Pop: 29M

Florida: relaxed since fall 2020: 39K died. Pop: 21,5M. Florida has also a lot older population than most other states. Florida won this one.

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/

Florida update - hospitals on the brink.

 

Hospitals in Florida are struggling with more Covid-19 patients than at any point in the pandemic, as the fast spreading Delta variant strains US states with low vaccination rates and few Covid restrictions.

Florida is at the heart of the virus’s latest surge in the US, with its hospitals now holding 12,408 Covid patients, the highest level since the pandemic began, according to a Financial Times analysis of US Department of Health and Human Services data.

Occupancy in the south-eastern US state’s intensive care units is on course to hit an all-time high by this weekend.

“We’re all exhausted, the emergency rooms are overrun, we’re at 100 per cent bed capacity,” said Frederick Southwick, an infectious diseases specialist in Gainesville, Florida, adding that some hospitals have stopped taking elective surgeries.

Other US states are also struggling, with facilities in Louisiana holding more Covid patients in its intensive care units than at the state’s winter peak, and Arkansas and Missouri rapidly approaching the same record.
 

https://www.ft.com/content/21ed4e9c-2b20-4a9d-bf38-6b76212beef8