News Forum - Israel’s supply cut reveals state’s cruel, dehumanising intentions towards Palestine

[EdwardV]

6 minutes ago, cowslip said:

so because Hamas did that does not justify anything Isreal does - unless they want to be just as bad,

Actually, it does justify Israel actions. That's how wars work and why you should always think twice before starting one. The only real question is what the level of response Israel feels is justified.  

Besides the fact it's already clear Israel is showing some level of restraint. If the conflicts in Ukraine and now in Gaza/Israel has proven once again, historically the word "justify" rarely has anything to do with war.   

 

[Fanta]

48 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Actually, it does justify Israel actions. That's how wars work and why you should always think twice before starting one. The only real question is what the level of response Israel feels is justified.  

That is not how wars work. Declaring war on Hamas does not give Israel the right to do whatever it wants to the Palestinian people. The Geneva Convention, international law and humanitarian international law are all applicable to this war and all are likely being breached by Israel. 

[Vigo]

7 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

So can you provide the link for Golan Vach quote?

It is not hidden and the statement was made as recently as october 13. https://efe.com/en/latest-news/2023-10-13/israel-releases-photos-of-babies-killed-by-hamas/

You are obsessing over this one aspect of the atrocities and mass murder  giving the impression that you are seeking to deny the event by focusing on one item and doubling down on sowing doubt.  The Israeli national pathologist is undertaking exams. There is more to come. The evidence already shows  that people including children were  burnt alive. Are you denying that too?

51 minutes ago, Manu said:

Now we are both hamas supporters. What is the point? 

You have a consistent track record of attacking Israel and alluding to your close friends who are allegedly former Israeli senior security officials. Your distinguishing feature is the quoting of one opinion that supports your position, often taking the person's published statement out of context, and intentionally ignoring the circumstances why that person may no longer occupy the position you insist provides the veneer of credibility. It is the standard 1970's  era political methodology employed by the Marxist student groups  of Europe who sought to malign and undermine using distorted facts. Pourquoi ne disiez vous- pas simplement que vous détestent les israliens et les juifs? it is more honest.  I have no hesitation in stating that I dislike Hamas and its supporters and wish their killing activity a speedy end.  You sound like a fine resident of Sevran or the 19ieme arrondisement of Paris  with your political rhetoric.

[Vigo]

15 minutes ago, Fanta said:

That is not how wars work. Declaring war on Hamas does not give Israel the right to do whatever it wants to the Palestinian people. The Geneva Convention, international law and humanitarian international law are all applicable to this war and all are being breached by Israel. 

Hamas is not a signatory of the Geneva Convention and repudiates all international laws and standards associated with the convention.  Have you seen the  Hamas video as published in Daily Mail Executed without pity: Shocking moment wounded female Israeli soldiers cowering under a table after being injured by a grenade are shot dead by Hamas gunmen   Very disturbing.  Hamas has taken non implicated civilian hostages. You have one  code of conduct for Israel and another for the  terrorists. Not surprising since you support the Russian  barbaric activities in Ukraine that have Russians murdering, looting, raping, and kidnapping children. No need for Hamas to steal  home appliances like the Russians since the international aid equips  the Gaza homes with them.  

[EdwardV]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

That is not how wars work. Declaring war on Hamas does not give Israel the right to do whatever it wants to the Palestinian people. The Geneva Convention, international law and humanitarian international law are all applicable to this war and all are being breached by Israel. 

I noticed you didn't say anything about Hamas breaching the Geneva Convention. 

The funny thing about wars is there is really no such thing as "that is not how wars work". The quote I was responding to said: "so because Hamas did that does not justify anything Isreal does" - Clearly that isn't true. Once Hamas invaded Israel, it did justify an Israeli response up to and including a declaration of war. As I pointed out, the question is at what level of response and as history has proven time and again that level is up to Israel.  As to the Geneva Convention. You can feint outrage, but it sure hasn't stopped Hamas from lobbing unguided missiles into the center of Israeli towns. Pretty sure that's against the rules too. 

[cowslip]

13 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

I noticed you didn't say anything about Hamas breaching the Geneva Convention. 

The funny thing about wars is there is really no such thing as "that is not how wars work". The quote I was responding to said: "so because Hamas did that does not justify anything Isreal does" - Clearly that isn't true. Once Hamas invaded Israel, it did justify an Israeli response up to and including a declaration of war. As I pointed out, the question is at what level of response and as history has proven time and again that level is up to Israel.  As to the Geneva Convention. You can feint outrage, but it sure hasn't stopped Hamas from lobbing unguided missiles into the center of Israeli towns. Pretty sure that's against the rules too. 

Yes I did and I said it does justify any other country doing it. - You are over-simplistic and a barbarian

[cowslip]

 Israel is about to create a humanitarian disaster on a scale on a par with the holocaust which is horrendously ironic - but of course there are plenty of modern day facsists who think this is OK - well we know how these regimes all end eventually

[Fanta]

51 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Hamas is not a signatory of the Geneva Convention and repudiates all international laws and standards associated with the convention.

Good, no mercy for those f*ckers. Execute them like the rabid dogs they are. Am I being clear enough for you? 

51 minutes ago, Vigo said:

You have one  code of conduct for Israel and another for the  terrorists.

The terrorists are 30,000 Hamas not the 2.2+ million Palestinian people trapped in the Gaza Strip. Israel has declared war on Hamas not the Palestinian people. Non combatants must be protected by international & humanitarian law and the Geneva Convention. Pourquoi ne dites-vous pas simplement que vous détestez tous les Palestiniens et les musulmans ?

[EdwardV]

15 minutes ago, cowslip said:

You are over-simplistic and a barbarian

Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

15 minutes ago, cowslip said:

 Israel is about to create a humanitarian disaster on a scale on a par with the holocaust which is horrendously ironic

The Holocaust was the genocide of European Jews during World War II. Between 1941 and 1945, Nazi Germany and its collaborators systematically murdered some six million Jews across German-occupied Europe, around two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population. The murders were carried out primarily through mass shootings and poison gas in extermination camps, chiefly Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, and Chełmno in occupied Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

What you did is called hyperbola. The only one doing mass shootings at this point in time is Hamas. Now that is irony. 

[Fanta]

41 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The quote I was responding to said: "so because Hamas did that does not justify anything Isreal does" - Clearly that isn't true.

I assumed it was incorrectly worded so I translated it to “so because Hamas did that, it does not justify everything that Israel does” 

[Vigo]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Good, no mercy for those f*ckers. Execute them like the rabid dogs they are. Am I being clear enough for you? 

The terrorists are 30,000 Hamas not the 2.2+ million Palestinian people trapped in the Gaza Strip. Israel has declared war on Hamas not the Palestinian people. Non combatants must be protected by international & humanitarian law and the Geneva Convention. Pourquoi ne dites-vous pas simplement que vous détestez tous les Palestiniens et les musulmans ?

 

 Islam calls for the subjugation of all non believers. In various koranic passages it states;

Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) 

Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."

Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush

Nor am I willing to pay jizya, the  per capita yearly tax, that dhimmis/infidels must pay to avoid public execution, nor will I accept the public humiliation that is required of the dhimmi.  As such, I reserve the right to defend myself against all Muslims and to resist the imposition of their religion on me. Islam is not a buffet that allows one to accept the nice parts while rejecting the large swathes that call for  violence and death. One must accept all or else be classified as a heretic and be subject to death as well. The  Palestinians inside Gaza are the product of 15 years of  dictatorial brainwashing by Hamas. They exist to die as martyrs for their faith and their brand of Islam celebrates death as having more value than life since one gets Paradise in death. it's like trainspotting where some choose death, Well, I choose life and reserve the right to stop the killer before the killer selects me as the next victim. This may explain why your hero Putin loves Iran as he does: They are committed to death and will bring death wherever they can. 

 

[EdwardV]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I assumed it was incorrectly worded so I translated it to “so because Hamas did that, it does not justify everything that Israel does” 

Fair and enough and I'd agree with that interpretation.

Politically Israel knows they have to play within the rules. At least as much as most which is a wider definition than some are willing to give them. However, it's going to be damn hard to do so within the confines of Gaza. I would think it's pretty hard to drop a building on the heads of Hamas terrorists using it as a defensive location and not have some level of collateral damage. The alternative is to do nothing, and we already know that isn't in the cards. I have a feeling they are going to pretty much level the northern portion of Gaza. This is where the majority of Hamas infrastructure and command and control is located. 

On a side note, it appears the Rafah crossing to Egypt is partially open and some UN relief supplies are entering, and some foreigners might be able to get out. It is also reported Israel claims they have turned on the water in southern Gaza, although it's questionable to how much and how well. 

[Vigo]

55 minutes ago, cowslip said:

 Israel is about to create a humanitarian disaster on a scale on a par with the holocaust which is horrendously ironic - but of course there are plenty of modern day facsists who think this is OK - well we know how these regimes all end eventually

Rubbish. There has been no confiscation of assets. There has been no euthanasia, no unethical medical experimentation nor mass sterilization. The humanitarian disaster is  created by the people of Gaza who have built a series of tunnels and bunkers under schools, hospitals, residential buildings  and public utility facilities. These tunnels and bunkers are used to launch  deadly attacks against Israel. The people who live above the missile launching sites and ammunition depots are human shields of Hamas own making. Israel has stated that it will enter Northern Gaza to  dismantle the extensive tunnel system in an effort to stop the deadly rain of missiles and other explosives on Israel. Israel has warned the locals to remove themselves while the operation is underway and has provided a  safe route  by which the people may leave. It is up to the  residents to  heed warnings and to leave. The people do not have far to go. the majority of people are being asked to go south of the wadi line which is approximately  5-10 km for most people. The distance from the line to the Israeli border is 15 km. Going to the safe zone will protect civilians from collateral damage.

You disagree. Ok. How would you  clean out these tunnels and bunkers that are still firing ordinance into israel? How else would ou protect non combatants other than providing advance warning and removing from the line of fire for a few days? The Russians certainly did not give the Ukrainians advance warning , let alone provide an evacuation route.  When Assad was  murdering his civilian population with help from Russia and the Hizbollah  paramilitary where were you?

I Keep reading of no electricity and fuel and water shortages, but the cameras are still rolling. Mobile phones are still in active use. There is still water and food available in much of Gaza. It seems that the israelis have either failed to cut these services off or that the reports  that these services have been cut are not accurate.  It's just like we were told that Israel stopped the rebuilding of  Gaza because of the restriction on cement and rebar, and yet  Hamas has built an underground system of thousands of KM of serviced reinforced tunnels.

 

 

 

 

[TedG]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

That is not how wars work. Declaring war on Hamas does not give Israel the right to do whatever it wants to the Palestinian people. The Geneva Convention, international law and humanitarian international law are all applicable to this war and all are likely being breached by Israel. 

This moral outage is funny coming from a Putin fluffer.  

[1234567]

On 10/14/2023 at 10:18 PM, Grumpish said:

You have very clearly taken a side. I have not, I do not defend Israel, nor do I defend Hamas, there is a lot of blood on both parties hands and neither is innocent - you are outraged by Israel's response and the civilian casualties (and I do feel that the response has been excessive) but Hamas has almost always targeted civilians in its attacks, as well.

Yes, I have taken the side based on the information.
If you are put in a prison camp, being quilty to just having born on the wrong side of the wall. Your whole family is shot and bombed into pieces for NO REASON AT ALL, then the killer shuts down you water, your electricity, your everything, humiliates you every time you want to move around by closing you in cages for "security check", are forbidden to use the rods that the killer uses, have NO LIFE nor dignity, and you see that those killers who stole your house, are dancing happily and freely; in full impunity, you WILL feel rage and anger.

If I was in Gaza as a Palestinian, FOR SURE I would raise against to those Israelis who go in complete impunity.
There is no justice for Palestinians from the outside world, and they have the FULL RIGHT to defend themselves. Exactly like othe oppresed peoples have the right.

After all it is fully and only the Israelis who started the occupation. 

[1234567]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:18 PM, Vigo said:

Which MKs and under what circumstances? There have been  MKs who spoke very nastily and violently against secular and non religious jew Israelis too.   We are in time following a horrific event when emotions are running hot.  Please be more specific. (And please note I am not israel  parliamentary  spokesperson.) And for fairness, can you do comparison of what is said in Arab assembly  events. 

In respect to the atrocities, there will be a full accounting including an inventory of photos you can drool over in delight, ok. According to you, there were no murders and no deliberate targeting of children. ok. According to you none of the graphic videos shown in this NY Times video occurred. Ok. it must be a sinister conspiracy cooked up by juden, yes?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-war-hamas-deaths-killings.html

Now can you pinpoint WHERE in the video there are "40 beheaded babies?"

A-HA!
There is no.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, cowslip said:

now resort to pure racism? You are so full of iy , you need and enema

Compare & Contrast Arab vs. Jewish Culture.

High School Essay for you and your idiotic view that “all people and cultures have equal value” .
Which modern weapons for example did Arabs Invent ? None of course. Jews ? Very many.

How about how many Nobel Prizes ( not Literature) have Arabs in Arab states ever won ? Again, None.

Jews ? 100 or so ….. are you beginning now to see the Truth about Arabs …… and Jews ? Doubtful

[oldschooler]

32 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Yes, I have taken the side based on the information.
If you are put in a prison camp, being quilty to just having born on the wrong side of the wall. Your whole family is shot and bombed into pieces for NO REASON AT ALL, then the killer shuts down you water, your electricity, your everything, humiliates you every time you want to move around by closing you in cages for "security check", are forbidden to use the rods that the killer uses, have NO LIFE nor dignity, and you see that those killers who stole your house, are dancing happily and freely; in full impunity, you WILL feel rage and anger.

If I was in Gaza as a Palestinian, FOR SURE I would raise against to those Israelis who go in complete impunity.
There is no justice for Palestinians from the outside world, and they have the FULL RIGHT to defend themselves. Exactly like othe oppresed peoples have the right.

After all it is fully and only the Israelis who started the occupation. 

“Palestinians” and their stupid violent irrational leaders are fully responsible for their entire sad condition. 
Rejected a Palestinian state five times. Not even Arab states will any longer take these violent doomed fools. 
Impossible to separate Hamas from civilians in Gaza. Like in Nazi Germany. Single Entity in a Total War. 

[oldschooler]

36 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Now can you pinpoint WHERE in the video there are "40 beheaded babies?"

A-HA!
There is no.

They were butchered, raped & murdered by psychopathic madmen. Isn’t that enough ?

 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Good, no mercy for those f*ckers. Execute them like the rabid dogs they are. Am I being clear enough for you? 

The terrorists are 30,000 Hamas not the 2.2+ million Palestinian people trapped in the Gaza Strip. Israel has declared war on Hamas not the Palestinian people. Non combatants must be protected by international & humanitarian law and the Geneva Convention. Pourquoi ne dites-vous pas simplement que vous détestez tous les Palestiniens et les musulmans ?

There is no possible separation of Hamas and their support population.

Hamas hide by force within, under, next to civilians & their infrastructure. 
This is a Total War between Israel and Gazans.

Gazans must flee Gaza City and Hamas or risk death. 
They have and will be given time for that. Hamas gave no such warnings.

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

 Israel is about to create a humanitarian disaster on a scale on a par with the holocaust which is horrendously ironic - but of course there are plenty of modern day facsists who think this is OK - well we know how these regimes all end eventually

Replace “ Israel” with “ Hamas” who deliberately provoked this with no care to civilians in their charge. 
Israel by all human laws and instincts must respond as they are doing and will do. 

 

[oldschooler]

55 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Yes, I have taken the side based on the information.
If you are put in a prison camp, being quilty to just having born on the wrong side of the wall. Your whole family is shot and bombed into pieces for NO REASON AT ALL, then the killer shuts down you water, your electricity, your everything, humiliates you every time you want to move around by closing you in cages for "security check", are forbidden to use the rods that the killer uses, have NO LIFE nor dignity, and you see that those killers who stole your house, are dancing happily and freely; in full impunity, you WILL feel rage and anger.

If I was in Gaza as a Palestinian, FOR SURE I would raise against to those Israelis who go in complete impunity.
There is no justice for Palestinians from the outside world, and they have the FULL RIGHT to defend themselves. Exactly like othe oppresed peoples have the right.

After all it is fully and only the Israelis who started the occupation. 

Presented like an Arab. All Anger Hate Violence without a single fact or Truth, completely stupid irrational views and of course anti- Semitic to the bone.  “ Gas the Jews” time again ?

[Grumpish]

2 hours ago, 1234567 said:

Yes, I have taken the side based on the information.
If you are put in a prison camp, being quilty to just having born on the wrong side of the wall. Your whole family is shot and bombed into pieces for NO REASON AT ALL, then the killer shuts down you water, your electricity, your everything, humiliates you every time you want to move around by closing you in cages for "security check", are forbidden to use the rods that the killer uses, have NO LIFE nor dignity, and you see that those killers who stole your house, are dancing happily and freely; in full impunity, you WILL feel rage and anger.

If I was in Gaza as a Palestinian, FOR SURE I would raise against to those Israelis who go in complete impunity.
There is no justice for Palestinians from the outside world, and they have the FULL RIGHT to defend themselves. Exactly like othe oppresed peoples have the right.

After all it is fully and only the Israelis who started the occupation. 

Sad, so much hate. You claim to understand all that, and yet you don't want to understand that that was the lot of the Jews for a thousand years, that that is why they want a place where they can be safe. The conflict is, and always was, driven by zealots and extremists, on both sides, that have lost their humanity to their blind hatred for anyone that does not support their cause, whatever that may be.

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

Sad, so much hate. You claim to understand all that, and yet you don't want to understand that that was the lot of the Jews for a thousand years, that that is why they want a place that they can be safe. The conflict is, and always was, driven by zealots and extremists, on both sides, that have lost their humanity to their blind hatred for anyone that does not support their cause, whatever that may be.

Zero Equivalence between unfree backward dimwit Arabs and Free Modern Western Democratic Israelis. 
Night & Day. Arabs are Completely Incompatible with Modernity. Irrational Crazed Loons.
No Reason or Peace to be had.Arabs already rejected five offers of an independent state.

[oldschooler]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Actually, it does justify Israel actions. That's how wars work and why you should always think twice before starting one. The only real question is what the level of response Israel feels is justified.  

Besides the fact it's already clear Israel is showing some level of restraint. If the conflicts in Ukraine and now in Gaza/Israel has proven once again, historically the word "justify" rarely has anything to do with war.   

Precisely. Civilised Israelis surrounded on three sides and outnumbered 100 to 1 by genocidal crazed backward loons (including Iran) determined to exterminate the people and state of Israel. 
Which demented savages stupidly rejected an independent state comprising 95% West Bank and Gaza.

Just how Dumb was that ? Gangster Terror Orgs figured more money from other Arabs than if Free. 
Not that Arabs got any conception of being free. What would they do with something they never had nor ever desired their entire lousy history ? Very Happy under Ottoman Turks for 400 years yet have Collective Fit when Jews ask for their homeland back…….Jews would have ruled Arabs even better than Turks…. But No.

Yet we know from Gaza handover how Independence would have turned out. New State becomes loon- controlled terrorist base run by Iran resulting in Cancellation of said new state by Israel and mass displacement of foolish Arabs. Sound Familiar ? 

Israel remarkably restrained at all times.
Sure some West Bank house clearances got out of hand. Nothing compared to gassing Kurds though is it ? 
Tough. Poke the Bear and weep at the demolished house outcome.