News Forum - Thai police admit extorting money from Taiwanese actress

[KaptainRob]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

What a place Thailand is. It’s non stop isn’t it. A totally corrupt mess of a country.

Dom is correct. it's endemic throughout most of Asia, probably worse in certain countries.  A $3m yacht I was taking through Indonesia was held in Kupang on demand of an "import Bond" amounting to ~$10,000.  This, despite being Australian Registered and with all documents in order.  3 days of negotiations got "bribe" down to $1,000 and I learned later they'd pulled the same scam on the Darwin to Ambon race yachts.

Fortunately, Thailand does have some very good people in positions of power. ie Big Joke, who are slowly exposing the criminally corrupt and young folk are not shy about helping via social media.

The coming election period will be interesting as there will be a few major upsets for the current regime of rip off merchants.  One can only hope that change comes for the better.

[Grumpish]

24 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Dom is correct. it's endemic throughout most of Asia, probably worse in certain countries.  A $3m yacht I was taking through Indonesia was held in Kupang on demand of an "import Bond" amounting to ~$10,000.  This, despite being Australian Registered and with all documents in order.  3 days of negotiations got "bribe" down to $1,000 and I learned later they'd pulled the same scam on the Darwin to Ambon race yachts.

Fortunately, Thailand does have some very good people in positions of power. ie Big Joke, who are slowly exposing the criminally corrupt and young folk are not shy about helping via social media.

The coming election period will be interesting as there will be a few major upsets for the current regime of rip off merchants.  One can only hope that change comes for the better.

As you say, corruption is endemic across much of Asia. It is unlikely to change until the people as a whole stop seeing it as a normal part of life (which does seem to be happening, even if it is only a very small rumbling at present) and until the offenders are actually seen to be punished - jail time and left penniless - rather than being shunted sideways and allowed to keep the proceeds because they "belong" to other family members.

[Dom4Thai]

As an ASEAN national or citizen, there are two ways of looking into corruption: (A) Corruption is a crime. (B) It's a nonviolent crime of inconveniences. 

(A) Corruption is a crime. It's only a crime if the top echelons of government say so. Otherwise, it's swept under the carpet and many officials benefit from the crime, and some even become tycoons from it. Just reread some of the postings here and you'd be amazed by some of the government officials becoming billionaires. 

(B) It's a nonviolent crime of inconveniences. Let me explain a hypothetical scenario. Supposedly you have sent two Burmese workers to service a lift in Nonthanburi, and during one of the roadblocks, the police summoned the vehicle to be inspected. The patrons inside the vehicle were asked to disembark, and since they don't have the ID cards or passports and work permits with them, they were detained for questioning. As they were detained for questioning, one of the Burmese decided to call his employer about the predicament. The boss said, "let me talk to the officers"! A negotiation begins to relay and it was decided that the employer would pay the officers 10,000 Baht! For the employer, it was trumped change, as he could meet up and handover additional expenses to his employees. So why did the employer agree to such an arrangement: (1) Lost of further downtime and trust to his loyal customers. (2) His employees could be further charged and deported, thus, giving him more costs and recruitment problems. (3) Time is money, and that corruption costs can easily be curtailed when the employees are back at work. In all this essence, it's about time, money, and relationships. That's why Western businesses and businessmen in many of these countries have a "contingent plan" to deal with these sort of issues. Most corporate expats, they also knew them as well. 

[Dom4Thai]

21 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

The corruption is more than a few thousand baht, it is for millions of U.S. dollars and comes hidden in sweetheart real estate deals, rigged cattle future deals or the best one.  Presidential foundations that allow those who wish to buy influence to legally pour millions into the foundation where of course it is siphoned off as expenses to run the foundation.  

Well, in the West, corruption is clinical. It is only whether we want to engage with that particular party or politician. Remember, that the Democrat Party used to be the party to go to by David Duke (a KKK scion) and his merrymen in Louisiana? And still many people are discounting that Hunter Biden has nothing to do with the Biolabs in Ukraine. If you look closely, it's in the details. 

[Soidog]

33 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

While it is sad it happens in Thailand it is completely wrong to think somehow it purely a problem associated with being Thai. 

I don’t think corruption is something which is purely a Thai problem and never said that. 
 

Of course other countries have corruption. I’d say ALL countries have corruption. The value in terms of dollars is not the point. You can’t equate a single multi-million dollar back hander in the US with the daily corruption which blights the life’s of every citizen in Thailand. It’s where the corruption takes place in society that impacts it so much. If you stop and think about the impact this has on Thai people, it impacts everything in their life. From a fair proportion of their tax going in to private bank accounts all the way to holding back the education of their children. 
 

I don’t understand why when people discuss a topic such as Thai police corruption, the defence is well look over there. It’s also happening there. 

[Dom4Thai]

I think we never said that corruption is a Thai thingy. If you read what I wrote, I said that corruption is endemic in ASEAN, except Brunei and Singapore. Singapore has the toughest legislation, in the world, and they don't offer any reconciliations because corruption destroys the fabric of a nation, especially one without natural resources. Brunei, don't, because corruption makes you stupid, immoral (under Islam), and the per capita income of people in relation to it's population is rather high. So, in Singapore, the government paid their top civil servants in enforcement, policing agencies, and all government departments top dollar, and good retirement. As a result, many of these civil servants are upright and they are to maintain uncorrupted agencies. As a matter of fact, Singapore civil service is one of the best paid organisations in the world. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Dom4Thai

[Soidog]

5 hours ago, Dom4Thai said:

 

As an ASEAN national or citizen, there are two ways of looking into corruption: (A) Corruption is a crime. (B) It's a nonviolent crime of inconveniences.

 

Agree with all of your post. However, point 2 of your post simply explains how corruption works. I think we all know how and why it takes place and at a superficial level it can be helpful to get you out of a sticky patch. That doesn’t make it right and if you want to change a society, ALL corruption must be seen as wrong. There are no thresholds where corruption is OK. Once you signal that, then killing someone and paying a few million to get away with it will happen. Corruption is just wrong. It destroys life’s and holds back the development of a country. 

[Grumpish]

2 hours ago, longwood50 said:

In 2013  four of the previous 7 governors of the state of Illinois went to prison for crimes including mail fraud, extortion, wire fraud, bribery etc. with Rod Blagojevich being the most celebrated for attempting to sell to the highest bidder Barrack Obama's vacated senate seat.

Which is one big difference. They got caught with their fingers in the till and ended up paying for it, whereas in Thailand, and most of Asia, there are few, if any consequences to getting caught out because it is regarded as a perfectly normal way of doing business.

[Soidog]

Forums and social media can be depressing places to spend time. It shows in stark detail just how messed up humanity is. Here we have a topic on corruption. Something most rational, decent and informed people would denounce. Yet here we have some people excusing it, making allowances for it and even advocating it. What a sick species we are. I find it truly scary how the views of various people can be so different on a crime so vile as corruption.  

[Dom4Thai]

49 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Forums and social media can be depressing places to spend time. It shows in stark detail just how messed up humanity is. Here we have a topic on corruption. Something most rational, decent and informed people would denounce. Yet here we have some people excusing it, making allowances for it and even advocating it. What a sick species we are. I find it truly scary how the views of various people can be so different on a crime so vile as corruption.  

You must be living in a comfort zone that you think it's just black and white. Step out in the zone, and you see that theiroes are just academic exercises. Three words Soidog, "Sodom and Gormorrah"! That's realism for you. 

[Faraday]

Three Off -Topic posts removed.

This is about Thai Police & the Taiwanese actress, not about the US.

Moderator

[Metoo]

15 hours ago, Soidog said:

Agree with all of your post. However, point 2 of your post simply explains how corruption works. I think we all know how and why it takes place and at a superficial level it can be helpful to get you out of a sticky patch. That doesn’t make it right and if you want to change a society, ALL corruption must be seen as wrong. There are no thresholds where corruption is OK. Once you signal that, then killing someone and paying a few million to get away with it will happen. Corruption is just wrong. It destroys life’s and holds back the development of a country. 

Well said....Absolutely spot on!

It's exactly why Thailand is decades behind.

[Soidog]

17 hours ago, Dom4Thai said:

You must be living in a comfort zone that you think it's just black and white. Step out in the zone, and you see that theiroes are just academic exercises. Three words Soidog, "Sodom and Gormorrah"! That's realism for you. 

You will need to explain that a little further in relation to my post. Right now I’m confused by what you have said and how it relates to my observation about humanity.

[Dom4Thai]

6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

You will need to explain that a little further in relation to my post. Right now I’m confused by what you have said and how it relates to my observation about humanity. 

In most parts of the world the idea civility is firstly, money, without money, you cannot do anything. Yes, money is the keepsake of all evils and good. But there's that society who will want to relent rules to get monetary incentives and benefits faster and quicker to achieve his or her aims. Those that suffered, apparently, they need to redevelop their niche, those who are straight as arrow, then, it's a long short. So, every individual will go at lengths to compete, whether legal or illegal, whether by the rules or not. If an individual is desperate, the ethics are even greyier for survival. Most of us have Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs. But is it sufficiently contingent to follow that hierarchy? Rules are meant to be broken. An expat in Singapore once relayed to me that Singapore and Singaporeans are boring. Then I said why don't  you soar above that horizon and travel Asia, Africa, or Latin America. I am sure there are many grey areas. Like for example, in the Philippines, certain places, allow you to be armed. Soi Dog, I am not sure where you're from, but from all my experiences I see more black then white. We want to be righteous, but righteousness only get us that far. 

[Soidog]

9 minutes ago, Dom4Thai said:

In most parts of the world the idea civility is firstly, money, without money, you cannot do anything. Yes, money is the keepsake of all evils and good. But there's that society who will want to relent rules to get monetary incentives and benefits faster and quicker to achieve his or her aims. Those that suffered, apparently, they need to redevelop their niche, those who are straight as arrow, then, it's a long short. So, every individual will go at lengths to compete, whether legal or illegal, whether by the rules or not. If an individual is desperate, the ethics are even greyier for survival. Most of us have Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs. But is it sufficiently contingent to follow that hierarchy? Rules are meant to be broken. An expat in Singapore once relayed to me that Singapore and Singaporeans are boring. Then I said why don't  you soar above that horizon and travel Asia, Africa, or Latin America. I am sure there are many grey areas. Like for example, in the Philippines, certain places, allow you to be armed. Soi Dog, I am not sure where you're from, but from all my experiences I see more black then white. We want to be righteous, but righteousness only get us that far. 

Somewhat of a philosophical view which perhaps misses the point I was trying to make?

The point of my post is that irrespective of cultural or political differences, I believe there are some universal standards to which humanity should have one voice and be held to. Obvious ones such as killing someone is a universal crime. Slavery is a universal crime. Freedom from discrimination. As you move along the spectrum (not the black and white view you suggest I hold), you get to things like the right to clean air. The right to voice opinions or the right to own property etc. For me, corruption is theft and a theft that erodes the higher order of human rights. If you look at the 30 articles of the universal declaration on human rights (attached), you can make a case that corruption works against the vast majority on this list, certainly the top 10.  It is astonishing that some people would support or make excuses for those who engage in corruption and therefore take away or damage these fundamental human rights. .

 

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/edumat/hreduseries/hereandnow/Part-5/8_udhr-abbr.htm

[TheDirtyDurian]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:14 AM, Soidog said:

What a place Thailand is. It’s non stop isn’t it. A totally corrupt mess of a country. Here’s the latest piece of scum who abuses his position. Don’t anyone try to defend this derelict corrupt sh*thole. We all know what it is and we all know it will never change.

The picture is of the Chief of the national parks.  You know, the ones who charge Foreigners more than Thais, but never mind, Thais pay tax, being investigated for his vile, selfish corrupt ways. Madness

Source BKK Post  

Perhaps other countries should stop Thais travelling  to send a message that this is not acceptable...

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Perhaps other countries should stop Thais travelling  to send a message that this is not acceptable...

I’ll give your intelligence the benefit of the doubt and assume sarcasm.
 

What the Thais do affects the people in Thailand and Thailands behaviour doesn’t impact the rest of the world. That’s not the case with Russia and Saudi Arabia. What I would advocate is that the rest of the world should apply more political and economic pressure on Thailand to clean up its act. The problem with that, is the Chinese would simply gain closer ties to Thailand and make it even more of a dictatorship. 
 

From your comments I’m guessing that you support corruption in Thailand. 

[Faz]

More off-topic posts and replies removed.

Topic, isn't about the UN or the war in Ukraine.
One member has been warned and received a holiday for failing to heed the previous advice of a moderator.

Carry on, and you could be next, or the topic locked.

Moderator.

[Vigo]

Yes, Thailand is corrupt and there' no denying it. Even the age old excuse" of "but others do it too" is useless now. I don't think a moderate approach will clean up the  issue.

 

[HiuMak]

On 2/4/2023 at 5:16 PM, Soidog said:

Agree with all of your post. However, point 2 of your post simply explains how corruption works. I think we all know how and why it takes place and at a superficial level it can be helpful to get you out of a sticky patch. That doesn’t make it right and if you want to change a society, ALL corruption must be seen as wrong. There are no thresholds where corruption is OK. Once you signal that, then killing someone and paying a few million to get away with it will happen. Corruption is just wrong. It destroys life’s and holds back the development of a country. 

All corruption is illegal and is wrong. All legally corrupt action forced upon is also wrong.

Corruption legally or illegally is just greed.

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, HiuMak said:

All corruption is illegal and is wrong. All legally corrupt action forced upon is also wrong.

Corruption legally or illegally is just greed.

I totally agree. I guess those who turn a blind eye or even support the acts of corruption are inherently greedy people themselves. What a fantastic world it would be if people were united against corruption. 

[Metoo]

45 minutes ago, Soidog said:

What a fantastic world it would be if people were united against corruption. 

Absolutely!

The world would be infinitely better.

[Chaimai]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

I totally agree. I guess those who turn a blind eye or even support the acts of corruption are inherently greedy people themselves. What a fantastic world it would be if people were united against corruption. 

 

 

That would be a fantasy world.

 

Unfortunately, where large sums of money are involved, and it is easier to earn from corruption than it is to do a solid days work, it will never be extinguished.

 

Singapore is as good a place as I have seen for lack of corruption. A teacher there told me how proud they were that the founding father set up the Singapore administration as corruption free.

[Metoo]

13 hours ago, Chaimai said:

That would be a fantasy world.

Unfortunately, where large sums of money are involved, and it is easier to earn from corruption than it is to do a solid days work, it will never be extinguished.

Singapore is as good a place as I have seen for lack of corruption. A teacher there told me how proud they were that the founding father set up the Singapore administration as corruption free.

Yes, unfortunately fantasy.....alas, we as a species fail on numerous ideals.

Corruption is widespread throughout mankind.

The more advanced countries will uncover the perpetrators and punish them with jail time.

Here in Thailand it seems to be a national pastime.....even an Olympic sport!

As it destroys a countries growth, it's their loss I guess.

A shame they can't see it.

[HiuMak]

13 hours ago, Chaimai said:

That would be a fantasy world.

Unfortunately, where large sums of money are involved, and it is easier to earn from corruption than it is to do a solid days work, it will never be extinguished.

Singapore is as good a place as I have seen for lack of corruption. A teacher there told me how proud they were that the founding father set up the Singapore administration as corruption free.

No country is corruption free. 

The Singapore administration is one of the highest paid in the world and tax free?