News Forum - Five US police officers charged with murder over fatal beating of black man

[Marc26]

37 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I watched the video which has been released. I saw police officers pulling the guy out the car, I saw police officers trying to arrest someone who was resisting, I then saw police officers going way overboard and beating a guy.

If you saw a video of them running up and without even talking to the guy but simply dragging him from the car can you provide a link to it please?

This is the initial stop

This is not proper or normal police procedure so you can't tell someone that they should comply when confronted like that

Compliance is no longer an option or should be expected 

It's the same situation as any group of thugs running up on you

 

I've been arrested 4 or 5x and always complied because it's the smart thing to do

 

I even had a police officer on top of me with a gun to my nose 

But he was correct in doing so and did it in a proper police manner

So I complied 

 

 

When police aren't acting properly, and  in a police manner

They are then no longer acting as police

Then "compliance" is not warranted and not a given

You are then fearing for your life

 

https://twitter.com/DubiousPod/status/1619187077035479041?t=7YFBeqvno8NaVzlfSWF9SQ&s=19

 

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

This is the initial stop

This is not proper or normal police procedure so you can't tell someone that they should comply when confronted like that

Compliance is no longer an option or should be expected 

It's the same situation as any group of thugs running up on you

I've been arrested 4 or 5x and always complied because it's the smart thing to do

I even had a police officer on top of me with a gun to my nose 

But he was correct in doing so and did it in a proper police manner

So I complied 

When police aren't acting properly, and  in a police manner

They are then no longer acting as police

Then "compliance" is not warranted and not a given

You are then fearing for your life

https://twitter.com/DubiousPod/status/1619187077035479041?t=7YFBeqvno8NaVzlfSWF9SQ&s=19

In the video you linked the guy did anything BUT comply.

He is told on several occasions to get on the ground and put his hands behind his back.

If he had done so would he be alive today?

What we are also missing is the footage before this. Why are there several police cars surrounding his and indeed one blocking his path?

[BigHewer]

I’ve had extended stays in two North American cities: San Antonio and Toronto. Otherwise, spent a couple of days here and there in Houston, Austin, Dallas and a couple of others.

Always found the cops to be friendly, polite and helpful. Just one exception. I was riding as the only white passenger in a car in Toronto, got pulled over for a “random” check, car ransacked in a drug search, IDs checked, total BS. Just a coincidence?

[Marc26]

27 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

In the video you linked the guy did anything BUT comply.

He is told on several occasions to get on the ground and put his hands behind his back.

If he had done so would he be alive today?

What we are also missing is the footage before this. Why are there several police cars surrounding his and indeed one blocking his path?

He should not be expected to comply when faced with non-police actions, that's the point..........

 

None of what they did were proper police actions, so they are no longer considered police in that situation

They are just a gang

To tell someone they need to comply is absurd.

 

The investigators and Chief have said:

Memphis Police Director Cerelyn "CJ" Davis later said investigators "have not been able to substantiate" the initial report of reckless driving.

 

So you are telling a man, who at most was reckless driving, to then comply with a gang of thugs running up on him with guns drawn and pulling him out of his car?

 

 

No........that's not the way policing should work

 

 

PS....I don't know where you live but I see 5 police cars pulled up blocking traffic for a simple one person arrest on almost a weekly basis here in Vancouver

Their stops are almost always over the top

That is part of the "militarization" and excessive use of force

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

I’ve had extended stays in two North American cities: San Antonio and Toronto. Otherwise, spent a couple of days here and there in Houston, Austin, Dallas and a couple of others.

Always found the cops to be friendly, polite and helpful. Just one exception. I was riding as the only white passenger in a car in Toronto, got pulled over for a “random” check, car ransacked in a drug search, IDs checked, total BS. Just a coincidence?

Had the same coming home on leave through Dover. Two squaddies in a Ford Capri heading home for Christmas. Tore the car apart. Suitcases searched. Door panels and the seats removed. They even bounced the spare wheel about the place.

Turned out all they found was that I had too much booze in my case which I explained was Christmas presents. Bottle of Laphroaig 12 year old for my dad and a bottle of Drambuie for my mum. They let me off with that. 

Thank god they never checked our socks though. We both had a shitload of cannabis in them 

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

He should not be expected to comply when faced with non-police actions, that's the point..........

None of what they did were proper police actions, so they are no longer considered police in that situation

They are just a gang

To tell someone they need to comply is absurd.

The investigators and Chief have said:

Memphis Police Director Cerelyn "CJ" Davis later said investigators "have not been able to substantiate" the initial report of reckless driving.

So you are telling a man, who at most was reckless driving, to then comply with a gang of thugs running up on him with guns drawn and pulling him out of his car?

No........that's not the way policing should work

PS....I don't know where you live but I see 5 police cars pulled up blocking traffic for a simple one person arrest on almost a weekly basis here in Vancouver

Their stops are almost always over the top

That is part of the "militarization" and excessive use of force

He should not be expected to comply? 

Oh OK. Do not comply and run the risk of losing your life. Just because the police are not following procedure. 

Yeah makes sense.

[Soidog]

On 1/30/2023 at 3:18 AM, cowslip said:

Well we have to decide if these officers would have been as aggressive if the victim was white - I suspect not.

THe problem now appears to be one of indoctrination of black officers who join this police force.

Well how would we ever know if it would have be different if the victim was white? There’s no basis for that other than an obviously provocative racist comment. 
 

In terms of the question of indoctrination, the premise there is that racist white police have set a culture of racism towards black people. The Memphis Police are 58% black and the chief police officer is shown below   The second is a picture of the departmental chiefs. As you can see, 66% are black.

This was just 5 bullies in uniform that fell in to pack mentality when one of them got upset after he pepper sprayed himself in the struggle. nothing racist about it.  

[Marc26]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

He should not be expected to comply? 

Oh OK. Do not comply and run the risk of losing your life. Just because the police are not following procedure. 

Yeah makes sense.

NO! That is the crux of the issue, that people like yourself think someone needs to comply to acts that aren't proper police acts

Those weren't a police act, it was gang assaulting someone...............

 

He is in fear for his life, you can't expect someone to then comply

Some might, but you can't expect that...................

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

NO! That is the crux of the issue, that people like yourself think someone needs to comply to acts that aren't proper police acts

Those weren't a police act, it was gang assaulting someone...............

He is in fear for his life, you can't expect someone to then comply

Some might, but you can't expect that...................

They are wearing police uniforms ergo they are the police. The crux of the issue is if the guy had actually got on the floor and put his hands behind his back would he be alive today?

Yes or no?

[Soidog]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

They are wearing police uniforms ergo they are the police. The crux of the issue is if the guy had actually got on the floor and put his hands behind his back would he be alive today?

Yes or no?

I do have some sympathy with this view. As I said before, if I’m stopped by the police I don’t argue. I would have my hands visible at all times. If told to put my hands behind my back I would do so. I would lay down and body relaxed so they could cuff me if they thought I was a threat. I would break free after a struggle and run away. As with the George Floyd incident, the guy was not complying with instructions.

Now, he may well have had some reason to fear what would happen. Perhaps he was concerned they would plant drugs or  some other issue? 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Now, he may well have had some reason to fear what would happen. Perhaps he was concerned they would plant drugs or  some other issue?

I have no idea about the history of this guy or his relationship with the police so I would not like to speculate.

[Marc26]

16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

They are wearing police uniforms ergo they are the police. The crux of the issue is if the guy had actually got on the floor and put his hands behind his back would he be alive today?

Yes or no?

No they aren't police when they are doing non-police actions

 

I whole heartedly agree with you, that in so many cases people should have complied....

 

But not in a case when thugs(not police) are attacking you

 

What you are explaining, is a Police state............which in a lot of cases, the US is

[Marc26]

9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I do have some sympathy with this view. As I said before, if I’m stopped by the police I don’t argue. I would have my hands visible at all times. If told to put my hands behind my back I would do so. I would lay down and body relaxed so they could cuff me if they thought I was a threat. I would break free after a struggle and run away. As with the George Floyd incident, the guy was not complying with instructions.

Now, he may well have had some reason to fear what would happen. Perhaps he was concerned they would plant drugs or  some other issue? 

Says the guy who has never had his rights violated by police..........

 

Incredibly easy for you to say that on your computer......

 

You rightfully bash the Thai police but say someone being attacked should comply

 

This guys wasn't "stopped by police"

He was attacked

[Soidog]

10 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Says the guy who has never had his rights violated by police..........

Incredibly easy for you to say that on your computer......

You rightfully bash the Thai police but say someone being attacked should comply

This guys wasn't "stopped by police"

He was attacked

I have had my rights violated by police. On at least three occasions.  On one occasion I was stopped, dragged from my car and thrown on the bonnet (hood!) of the car. As I tried to stand up I was punched in the kidneys. I was then taken to the police station and held for almost 6 hours before they realised they had the wrong guy. This happens 25 years ago while in London. 
 

I don’t think we have the details of why this guy was stopped and any perceived risk the police may have thought existed. 
 

Im not defending these thugs. They are a disgrace to humanity, let alone a police officer. I’m simply saying that if you resist arrest then things can rapidly turn nasty. 

[Marc26]

29 minutes ago, Soidog said:

 

Im not defending these thugs. They are a disgrace to humanity, let alone a police officer. I’m simply saying that if you resist arrest then things can rapidly turn nasty. 

I am absolutely agree, every time I have been arrested I have basically gone limp

Even on 2 occasions when I felt the cops were wrong

I always said " i am not going to win this argument"

 

I just don't consider what happened as an arrest, it was an attack

[Soidog]

31 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I am absolutely agree, every time I have been arrested I have basically gone limp

 

Are we still talking about police? It’s just I’ve heard a little blue pill can help

[longwood50]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:05 PM, Marc26 said:

I gave you my experience working in the black community and why black officers would still treat a black person worse than a white person

Now, I know that experience is in no way as advanced as "working in a major bank in Detroit" 55555...............so it may be lacking

I say you are full of crap.  Tell me, then this is a video of Joseph Hutchenson a white man killed in a Dallas County jail by a group of cops one of whom was black and was kneeling on Mr. Hutchensons neck until Mr. Hutchenson died.  Was this one of your examples of preferential treatment by officers treating a man more humanely because he was white? 

As to your comment about there being a sentiment between law enforcement and those who live in predominantly minority neighborhoods, did it ever strike you that the job of the police is to enforce the laws and keep the peace and that the majority of crime is happens in those same predominantly minority neighborhoods. 

Take George Floyd for an example.  Had he chosen not to try to pass counterfeit bills he would not have been confronted by police the day he died.  Take the latest case with Tyrol Nichols in Memphis.  He was being stopped for reckless driving and then fled on foot.  Choose to do things that put you in a position to confront police and you are far more at risk to suffer injuries from that encounter.  Pretty simple, obey the law and you won't be in situations that put you anywheres in the proximity of a police officer. 

 

 

[Marc26]

21 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

I say you are full of crap.  Tell me, then this is a video of Joseph Hutchenson a white man killed in a Dallas County jail by a group of cops one of whom was black and was kneeling on Mr. Hutchensons neck until Mr. Hutchenson died.  Was this one of your examples of preferential treatment by officers treating a man more humanely because he was white? 

As to your comment about there being a sentiment between law enforcement and those who live in predominantly minority neighborhoods, did it ever strike you that the job of the police is to enforce the laws and keep the peace and that the majority of crime is happens in those same predominantly minority neighborhoods. 

Take George Floyd for an example.  Had he chosen not to try to pass counterfeit bills he would not have been confronted by police the day he died.  Take the latest case with Tyrol Nichols in Memphis.  He was being stopped for reckless driving and then fled on foot.  Choose to do things that put you in a position to confront police and you are far more at risk to suffer injuries from that encounter.  Pretty simple, obey the law and you won't be in situations that put you anywheres in the proximity of a police officer. 

 

You say I am full of crap but give opinions when you clearly haven't researched the whole story

 

In the case of Nichols, the investigation has found no evidence of reckless driving 

 

 

And if you actually read what I wrote I did put all the blame on the police on the community tension

[longwood50]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:14 PM, Marc26 said:

I mentioned to @longwood50 about spending time in the black community and how much tension there is between the community and police

Yes there is tension.  When a person breaks the law they have tension worrying about the consequences of their actions.  If they don't do anything wrong such as reckless driving, or attempting to flee from the scene of an arrest, they won't have problems.  

The fact is that people put themselves into positions to be confronted by the police.  It is absolutely illegal for a person to be stopped without cause.  Simple answer.  Remove the cause to be stopped and you wont. 

[Marc26]

6 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Yes there is tension.  When a person breaks the law they have tension worrying about the consequences of their actions.  If they don't do anything wrong such as reckless driving, or attempting to flee from the scene of an arrest, they won't have problems.  

The fact is that people put themselves into positions to be confronted by the police.  It is absolutely illegal for a person to be stopped without cause.  Simple answer.  Remove the cause to be stopped and you wont. 

You keep repeating the lies that the police told

 

So you really can't see why their community would have issues?

 

Bigoted white guys like yourself perpetuate a lie, even when you been told it's a lie and their own Chief and investigators have said so...........there was no evidence of reckless driving

 

You have been shown links to that numerous times, but you intentionally keep pushing that lie

 

But facts and truth don't matter to bigoted right wingers like yourself

[longwood50]

12 hours ago, Marc26 said:

You keep repeating the lies that the police told

No, I read the statistics something you obviously either don't or care to.  The fact is that the black community represents approximately 13% of the USA population but in each case committs crimes far disproportionate to that percentage.  The Hispanic group likewise represents about 15% of the USA population but commits a disproportionate percentage of crime, particularly drug related.  

I am not condoning what those police officers did, however your assetion that the beating was somehow more severe because the victim was black is so insane as to hardly be believed.  All 5 of the police officers were black.  Now as to your statement about reckless driving, I suspect that there was police car camera footage.  If that proves your assertion then you are vindicated.  If it shows he was reckless then they had cause to stop him.  I find it amazing that somehow at night following from the back with the glare of headlights going through the back window of a car traveling at some higher rate of speed that a police officer could identify the race of the driver when at best the back of their neck would be showing and then being a black police officer I would then be motivated to stop a fellow black.  




https://drugpolicy.org/resource/drug-war-mass-incarceration-and-race-englishspanish
 https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2