To settle an argument - when does 90 days start ?

[DwizzleyMatthews]

As the title suggests a friend and myself are disagreeing on this matter, please clarify.

In the case of someone entering on a 30 ( or 45 ) day visa exempt and applying for an O visa does the 90 days clock start on:

a) The date of entry to Thailand 

b) The date of application for O visa 

or

c) Varies from IO to IO

 

TIA 
Dwizzley

[Faz]

90 day reporting or 90 day stay of acquiring the Non O ?

[DwizzleyMatthews]

90 day reporting.

I always assumed it was 90 consecutive days in Thailand irrespective of what visa or visa exempt made up the 90 days.

But a friend says the 90 days clock starts on application for O visa ( using my example in the op) .

Since then, another poster, on the t’other forum says it starts on your first 12 months extension.

[Guest1]

It starts with the day, your extension got granted. That is imho the last contact to immigration, 90 days, better 89 days later you have to report again. 

[Faz]

You are only required to submit 90-day reports if you have permission of stay for more than 90 consecutive days. So your first 90-day report would be due 90 days from receiving a 1-year extension of stay.
On receiving a 1-year extension, the IO will place a paper notification in your passport of when your first report is due.

The TM47 clearly states:
FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY OF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

If for any reason you exit and re-enter Thailand with a re-entry permit, the 90-day report clock resets, the date of entry being day 1 of the count. In those situations, I've always amended the date on the 90-day notification slip as a reminder.

[DwizzleyMatthews]

5 minutes ago, Faz said:

You are only required to submit 90-day reports if you have permission of stay for more than 90 consecutive days. So your first 90-day report would be due 90 days from receiving a 1-year extension of stay.
On receiving a 1-year extension, the IO will place a paper notification in your passport of when your first report is due.

The TM47 clearly states:
FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY OF STAYING LONGER THAN 90 DAYS

If for any reason you exit and re-enter Thailand with a re-entry permit, the 90-day report clock resets, the date of entry being day 1 of the count. In those situations, I've always amended the date on the 90-day notification slip as a reminder.

Okay, i think I’ve got it, so the previous visa exempt and O visa do not apply to the 90 days count only the start of the 12 month extension ( more than 90 days permission to stay ) . Obviously returning from oseas on the extension the clock starts on entry.

 The bad news is that i was wrong.

The good news is that my friend was also.

Thanks @Faz

 

[Faz]

Except for PR, as a general rule you are not permitted to remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days without submitting a 90-day report, or reporting to an IO.

Questions arose during the Covid period when there were those that stayed for 18 months or longer via Covid extensions asking when they had to submit a 90-day report. The answer was always the same, you don't!
Although they stayed far longer than 90 consecutive days, each permission of stay granted was 30/60 days, meaning they were reporting to an IO every 30/60 days to submit a further application.

Similarly, a foreigner with a Thai spouse is entitled to apply for a 60-day extension.
If they entered with a TV (60 days) or Non Imm O (90 days) with the extension they will stay for longer than 90 consecutive days, but they aren't required to submit a 90-day report, due to applying at an IO for the 60-day extension, which acts as a report.

[Faz]

16 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

The bad news is that i was wrong.

The good news is that my friend was also.

The old saying is true, 'two wrongs, don't make a right'.  

It's an archaic system of tracking the whereabouts of foreigners.

If you enter VE or TV, you're only granted permission of stay for 30/60 days.
In either case though, whether staying in a hotel or private residence, a TM30 should be filed notifying Immigration of your place of residence - report 1.

If you then apply for a change of Immigration status from Tourist to Non Immigrant (Non O) you either file a TM86 or TM87 with your address details - report 2.

Within the 90-day permission of stay the Non O grants, you then apply to extend your stay for a further 365 days on a TM7, also with your address details - report 3.

Thereafter, every 90 days you submit 90-day reports, again confirming your address, until the following year, when we start the process again by completing another TM7, and so on and so on.

[Faz]

1 hour ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

But a friend says the 90 days clock starts on application for O visa ( using my example in the op) .

Your friend, maybe under the misapprehension he's applying to extend his Non O visa each year at Immigration, hence his reply.

[DwizzleyMatthews]

4 minutes ago, Faz said:

Your friend, maybe under the misapprehension he's applying to extend his Non O visa each year at Immigration, hence his reply.

No.

Our mutual friend is quite proficient in immigration matters, in this case he quoted what his IO had done nearly 90 days ago , they will process his 90 days report shortly on extension.

He and i are making the same “ kill OA, enter visa exempt, obtain O visa and retirement extension “ scenarios.

It was while swapping notes that this topic arose.

[Leo]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:43 PM, Faz said:

Questions arose during the Covid period when there were those that stayed for 18 months or longer via Covid extensions asking when they had to submit a 90-day report. The answer was always the same, you don't!

I had to do a 90-day reporting last year, as a result of the Covid extensions. The reminder was clipped on my passport, and it was the first thing they checked when I went for another extension (Chaeng Wattana).

My question though now is when would I have to do the 90-day report. I entered visa exempt on Jan 4. On Feb 22 I applied for a Non-B visa, valid till May 22.  Thanks Faz.

[Pinetree]

The clue is in the title.  You report before the end of 90 days in country,  to get clearance for another 90 days. 

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Leo said:

I had to do a 90-day reporting last year, as a result of the Covid extensions. The reminder was clipped on my passport, and it was the first thing they checked when I went for another extension (Chaeng Wattana).

My question though now is when would I have to do the 90-day report. I entered visa exempt on Jan 4. On Feb 22 I applied for a Non-B visa, valid till May 22.  Thanks Faz.

I'd say, since Feb. was 28 days, you are good till May 22 (day 90, methinks)

Since the extension was a report, like every contact from immigration with Passport is a report, and you assumingly either leaving or going for a one year extension, enjoy till then.

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Leo said:

My question though now is when would I have to do the 90-day report. I entered visa exempt on Jan 4. On Feb 22 I applied for a Non-B visa, valid till May 22.  Thanks Faz.

Your application for the Non B is also classed as a report, as you provide an address.

I assume you'll be applying for a 1-year extension of stay prior to May 22nd, which is also classed a report as again you'll be confirming your address. The extension should start from May 22nd, therefore your first 90-day report will be due 90 days from May 22nd.
They should place a notification slip in your passport of when your first report is due.

90 day reports should only apply if you have been given permission of stay for more than 90 consecutive days. Your VE only granted you a stay of 45 days. Your Non B granted you a stay of 90 days, neither being for more than 90 days.

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Pinetree said:

The clue is in the title.  You report before the end of 90 days in country,  to get clearance for another 90 days. 

Not quite.

90 day reports are only due when you've been granted permission of stay for more than 90 consecutive days.
You wouldn't be required to submit a 90-day report if you entered VE, TV, or Non O.
Even if you applied for a Non O in Country, you'd either have to exit or apply for an extension prior to expiry of the 90 days and submit your address again on the TM7.

At the point of granting a 1-year extension, Immigration will staple a 90-day notification slip in your passport of the first due date of your report.

If you enter on a Non O, as I did, then apply for the 1-year extension, the first report would be due 90 days after the start date of the 1-year permission of stay, by which time you'd have been in Country almost 6 months.

[DwizzleyMatthews]

22 hours ago, Pinetree said:

The clue is in the title.  You report before the end of 90 days in country,  to get clearance for another 90 days. 

That’s what i thought, hence the thread.

But , as Faz states above, “ not quite “.

[Faz]

3 hours ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

That’s what i thought, hence the thread.

But , as Faz states above, “ not quite “.

Anyone that came in on a Non Imm O, should recall their first 90-day report was due 90 days after acquiring their 1-year extension.

A Non Imm O-A grants a stay of 1 year on entry, so only then, would the first 90-day report be due 90 days after entry, or after entering with a re-entry permit on a 1-year extension.

[gozzers]

STARTS WHEN ONE ARRIVES BACK INTO THE COUNTRY

prety obvious to me !!!!

[Faz]

14 minutes ago, gozzers said:

STARTS WHEN ONE ARRIVES BACK INTO THE COUNTRY

prety obvious to me !!!!

Wrong!

It starts when you are granted permission of stay for more than 90 consecutive days.

My next report is due April 17th.
I'll depart Thailand April 21st, returning May 15th.
According to you, my next report would therefore be due on August 12th, 90 days after arriving back in the Country.

Actually, my next 90-day report after April will be in October - why?

[gozzers]

ok you know.....and are clever more than me.......

[palooka]

On 12/13/2022 at 7:02 PM, Faz said:

It's an archaic system of tracking the whereabouts of foreigners.

Very apt description.

If you get along with your Immig. Officer ask where all the paperwork they generate goes. Enjoy the confused look. 

Must be the biggest warehouse in Bangkok, probably has its own suburb name and BTS station by now.