How to verify income for marriage visa

[Weave73]

Ok so im hoping someone can clarify this because any youtube video, or visa lawyer site is pretty much mum on this topic.   The requirements for income state that for a marriage visa you need to verify that you have 40,000 baht per month income OR 400,000 in a thai bank account.  Since most embassies are no longer verifying income (including the US) what is the deal?  For instance, I am retired and have a federal pension that is MORE than the 40,000 per month requirement. But, I do not have the ten grand to put into a thai bank account..  so is there another way to verify my income?  has anyone else gone through this?

[Chaimai]

56 minutes ago, Weave73 said:

Ok so im hoping someone can clarify this because any youtube video, or visa lawyer site is pretty much mum on this topic.   The requirements for income state that for a marriage visa you need to verify that you have 40,000 baht per month income OR 400,000 in a thai bank account.  Since most embassies are no longer verifying income (including the US) what is the deal?  For instance, I am retired and have a federal pension that is MORE than the 40,000 per month requirement. But, I do not have the ten grand to put into a thai bank account..  so is there another way to verify my income?  has anyone else gone through this?

The requirement is to show 400,000 Baht in a Thai bank evidenced by bank passbook and a bank letter. The funds have to be in the bank for 2 months prior to your extension application.

 

Alternatively, you can show monthly income of 40,000 Baht into a Thai bank account for 12 months. This is evidenced by bank letter and bank statements showing the 40k going in each month.

 

Be aware that there may subtle differences in requirements from different Immigration offices.

[Faz]

Welcome to the forum @Weave73.

There is no such thing as a Marriage Visa.

Are you applying for the Non Imm O Visa based on Thai spouse from a Thai Embassy, OR, asking about a 1-year extension of permission of stay based on Thai spouse from a local Thai Immigration office ?

[cuzzy]

We got married in March. Kaset Sombun office only reqiured that I complete a declaration including income without evidence of that income.

Of course, rules are sometimes applied in an ad-hoc manner and can differ from office to office.

[palooka]

On 10/22/2022 at 6:20 PM, Faz said:

Welcome to the forum @Weave73.

There is no such thing as a Marriage Visa.

Are you applying for the Non Imm O Visa based on Thai spouse from a Thai Embassy, OR, asking about a 1-year extension of permission of stay based on Thai spouse from a local Thai Immigration office ?

Come on @Faz you focussed on a minor interpretation of his wording of his visa type and failed to answer his question in any form or manner about his dilemma of proving income for visa purposes.

Lighten up.

[Faraday]

28 minutes ago, palooka said:

Come on @Faz you focussed on a minor interpretation of his wording of his visa type and failed to answer his question in any form or manner about his dilemma of proving income for visa purposes.

Lighten up.

The OPs questions, were answered in the second post.

My learnéd colleague was correct by saying there's not a "Marriage Visa". 

We got to get the terminology right, so Immigration don't get confused.

Anyway, not a bad effort for a 7 month bump.

[Faz]

2 hours ago, palooka said:

Come on @Faz you focussed on a minor interpretation of his wording of his visa type and failed to answer his question in any form or manner about his dilemma of proving income for visa purposes.

Was his enquiry about a visa or an extension of stay, which is a permit, not a Visa.

To give the correct advice, it's important to understand exactly what they have.
There is no such 'retirement' or 'marriage' visa types, both are actually a Non Imm O visa issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates for the purpose of retirement or Thai spouse, both having different conditions.
Visas have either single or multiple entries attached.

Extensions of stay are permits, not visas. This is clearly written on the forms you complete and sign.
To explain these differences, I posted an article on the subject;
https://talk.thethaiger.com/topic/1652-visa-or-extension-of-stay/#comment-5567

Some years ago, a local expat received news of a family bereavement and was urgently trying to book a flight home. He asked if he could return to Thailand without any problems.
I asked on what basis and how he stayed in Thailand, and he assured me he had a Non Imm O-A visa.
(That visa type allows multiple entries for stays of up to one year on each entry. It's also based and issued purely on the basis of retirement).

 

Several weeks later, I bumped into the same expat whilst shopping at Big C, and he wasn't very happy.
Apparently, on re-entering Thailand, he received a 30-day visa exempt stamp.
It transpired that his original Non Imm O-A visa expired 4 years previously, and he'd since married and now had a 1-year extension of stay based on Thai spouse.

Had he informed me correctly of his status, I would have answered differently, informing him he required a re-entry permit. He was clearly under the impression he extended his 'visa' each year at Immigration, because the IO's always stated 'extend visa' on his visits.
If only he'd read the forms he completes and signs, eh!

He unfortunately learned the hard way, and that differences certainly do matter.

 

[Faz]

On 5/8/2023 at 8:08 AM, cuzzy said:

We got married in March. Kaset Sombun office only reqiured that I complete a declaration including income without evidence of that income.

Of course, rules are sometimes applied in an ad-hoc manner and can differ from office to office.

Proof of income can also depend on your nationality.
Most nationalities can provide a declaration from their Embassy as to their income, some without any proof whatsoever. However, unfortunately for British, Australian and American citizens this service was withdrawn at the beginning of 2019. Immigration changed the rules allowing transfers to a Thai bank account as evidence of monthly income for those citizens.

[palooka]

12 hours ago, palooka said:

There is no such thing as a Marriage Visa.

There is no such thing as a retirement visa either.  May help explain why some call it that.

[Faz]

57 minutes ago, palooka said:

There is no such thing as a retirement visa either.  May help explain why some call it that.

The reason for the extension of stay is clearly printed, 'retirement' or 'Thai spouse' and the stamp clearly indicates you are extending your permission of stay. 'Extension of stay is permitted up to ..........'.
Nowhere does the word 'visa' appear on the stamp, contrary it also clearly states 'To keep your stay permit', indicating it is a permit (of stay), not a visa.

A visa cannot be extended. If it's a single entry, it's 'USED' on entry. If it's a multiple entry, it expires on the 'valid until' date. Thereafter, you extend the permission of stay granted on entry, subject to the reason and meeting the requirements.

[Marc26]

11 minutes ago, Faz said:

The reason for the extension of stay is clearly printed, 'retirement' or 'Thai spouse' and the stamp clearly indicates you are extending your permission of stay. 'Extension of stay is permitted up to ..........'.
Nowhere does the word 'visa' appear on the stamp, contrary it also clearly states 'To keep your stay permit', indicating it is a permit (of stay), not a visa.

A visa cannot be extended. If it's a single entry, it's 'USED' on entry. If it's a multiple entry, it expires on the 'valid until' date. Thereafter, you extend the permission of stay granted on entry, subject to the reason and meeting the requirements.

So if I'm married and get "an extension of stay"

I need to get a multi-entry visa for the time frame as well?

 

I never knew that, if that's the case

 

Do you get that at the same time when you get the marriage extension?(with added cost)

 

 

If so, sounds similar to my wife in Canada 

She gets a work permit but also needs a visitor visa to come and go from Canada 

[palooka]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

Nowhere does the word 'visa' appear on the stamp, contrary it also clearly states 'To keep your stay permit', indicating it is a permit (of stay), not a visa.

So when Immigration request a signed photocopy of my visa, their words not mine, I and they have been getting it all wrong then.

[KaptainRob]

7 minutes ago, palooka said:

So when Immigration request a signed photocopy of my visa, their words not mine, I and they have been getting it all wrong then.

Perhaps visa is easier pronunciation for them but yes, it is wrong.

[Faz]

1 hour ago, palooka said:

So when Immigration request a signed photocopy of my visa, their words not mine, I and they have been getting it all wrong then.

If you entered Thailand either Visa exempt or on a Tourist visa, then your status is a 'Tourist' and you cannot apply for a 1-year extension of stay. You must have 'Non Immigrant' status, to apply for a 1-year extension, as per their written orders.

Therefore, when applying for a 1-year extension, they request a copy of your original Non Immigrant visa as evidence you have Non Immigrant status and are eligible to apply.

In the 'screenshots' you posted, the IO hand wrote O-A on the stamp (O-A is a non Immigrant visa type), whereas they may also hand right 'Non O'. One of the differences between an 'O' and 'O-A' type is that the O-A requires the compulsory Health Insurance (unless the extension is based on Thai spouse), whereas the 'O' does not.

The TM7 form you complete clearly states as the header 'Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom'. As part of the application process, the IO will require you to sign additional forms (in Thai and English), one of these being an 'Acknowledgement of terms and conditions for permit of temporary stay in the Kingdom of Thailand'. Under note 3, it states; 'I do herby acknowledge the terms and conditions applicable to this permit'

You can only extend your temporary permission of stay, not the visa, although its type is relevant.

If you believe that you're extending your Non Imm O-A visa each year, then cross a border and re-enter. After all, the O-A is multiple entry, right, no need for a re-entry permit in that case.

[Faz]

5 hours ago, Marc26 said:

So if I'm married and get "an extension of stay"

I need to get a multi-entry visa for the time frame as well?

I never knew that, if that's the case

Do you get that at the same time when you get the marriage extension?(with added cost)

In short;

1. To stay in Thailand for several months, you should first obtain a Non Immigrant visa based on Thai spouse.
2. On entry, you will be granted permission of stay for 90 days.
3. Open a Thai bank account and deposit 400 K THB.
4. Within the last 30 days of the 90 granted, you can apply to extend your stay for a further 1 year.
5. Your wife must attend the application, and you must provide evidence of said 400K being deposited in a Thai bank account for 60 days. The account must be in your sole name.
6. Extensions of stay based on Thai spouse have to be approved at regional headquarters, which usually takes 30 days, then you can return for the extension permit.
7. If you intend to leave and re-enter during this period, you need to purchase either a single (1,000 BHT), or multiple (3,800 BHT) re-entry permit.

[palooka]

5 hours ago, Faz said:

If you entered Thailand either Visa exempt or on a Tourist visa, then your status is a 'Tourist' and you cannot apply for a 1-year extension of stay. You must have 'Non Immigrant' status, to apply for a 1-year extension, as per their written orders.

Therefore, when applying for a 1-year extension, they request a copy of your original Non Immigrant visa as evidence you have Non Immigrant status and are eligible to apply.

In the 'screenshots' you posted, the IO hand wrote O-A on the stamp (O-A is a non Immigrant visa type), whereas they may also hand right 'Non O'. One of the differences between an 'O' and 'O-A' type is that the O-A requires the compulsory Health Insurance (unless the extension is based on Thai spouse), whereas the 'O' does not.

The TM7 form you complete clearly states as the header 'Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom'. As part of the application process, the IO will require you to sign additional forms (in Thai and English), one of these being an 'Acknowledgement of terms and conditions for permit of temporary stay in the Kingdom of Thailand'. Under note 3, it states; 'I do herby acknowledge the terms and conditions applicable to this permit'

You can only extend your temporary permission of stay, not the visa, although its type is relevant.

If you believe that you're extending your Non Imm O-A visa each year, then cross a border and re-enter. After all, the O-A is multiple entry, right, no need for a re-entry permit in that case.

When you are talking to an Immigration Officer they do not quote the rules, they don't have to, if they refer to your extension stamp as a visa then to all intents and purposes it is a visa.

Or do you be contentious and demand legal clarity on every small point ie do you want a photocopy of my visa or of my visa extension? That would be a good start to visa extension.

You quote well and are very well informed but like most laws and rules in all countries they are not iron and get bent to suit the situation of reality.

As for the handwritten (O-A) legally could be anything. Maybe it is initials of a double barrel name ie  Oswald- Arguston, his mother married a farlung.

The whole point I have been trying to make is that the rules do not always apply in real life and all situations. Dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's doesn't happen ever.

The final say is with the individual Immigration Officer not the rule book and how he or she interprets those rules.

I realise and apologise to admin that this whole conversation has gone way off topic and will desist with any further comments.

[Faz]

48 minutes ago, palooka said:

When you are talking to an Immigration Officer they do not quote the rules, they don't have to, if they refer to your extension stamp as a visa then to all intents and purposes it is a visa.

As I previously stated, if for all intents and purposes, they tell you it's a visa, then cross a border and try to re-enter, at which points you'll receive a 30-day stamp, because you're attempting to enter without a visa!
You can then argue your local IO stated it was a visa.

It's clear you didn't read the links I posted.

My IO call an extension a visa, and a re-entry permit, a re-entry visa.
I honestly don't think they know or understand the difference, but what they think or call it is immaterial.
It's the applicant that needs to understand the differences, or one day you may come a cropper, as the expat did that gave me incorrect information.

48 minutes ago, palooka said:

The whole point I have been trying to make is that the rules do not always apply in real life and all situations. Dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's doesn't happen ever.

You can't play the game if you don't know the cards in your hand and understand the rules.

Evil and corruption only succeeds if good men do nothing about it.
There is nothing wrong with challenging an IO if you think he's wrong, but you need to know the rules to challenge them, otherwise they'll have you singing and dancing to their tunes, whilst collecting the money for next month's car payment.

A fool and his money are soon parted is Immigrations slogan.

 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Faz said:

In short;

1. To stay in Thailand for several months, you should first obtain a Non Immigrant visa based on Thai spouse.
2. On entry, you will be granted permission of stay for 90 days.
3. Open a Thai bank account and deposit 400 K THB.
4. Within the last 30 days of the 90 granted, you can apply to extend your stay for a further 1 year.
5. Your wife must attend the application, and you must provide evidence of said 400K being deposited in a Thai bank account for 60 days. The account must be in your sole name.
6. Extensions of stay based on Thai spouse have to be approved at regional headquarters, which usually takes 30 days, then you can return for the extension permit.
7. If you intend to leave and re-enter during this period, you need to purchase either a single (1,000 BHT), or multiple (3,800 BHT) re-entry permit.

Thanks I never really here guys talk about the re-entry permit so I never knew that 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, palooka said:

When you are talking to an Immigration Officer they do not quote the rules, they don't have to,

They do and can when they're after 'tea money', but are they always right?

Some years ago, before the new amended TM 30 regulations came into force and new TM30's had to be filed after visiting overseas, I travelled back by air from Bangkok to Roi Et along with another non-Thai on the same flight.

The following day, I visited my IO to file a new TM30 and low and behold by sheer coincidence the same non-Thai that was on the same flight was also visiting to file a new TM30.
I sat directly behind him at the desk, close enough to overhear the conversation.

The IO stated unfortunately he'd have to fine the man 2,000 BHT for not filing the same day as requested by the rules, but if he didn't want a receipt he could reduce the fine to 800 BHT.
I was following doing the same thing and knew the IO was trying to fleece the guy, so in my own defence piped up and stated he was wrong, the rules stated you should file a new TM30 within 24 hours of returning to your place of residence. As our flight didn't land until 7pm the previous evening, we were both well within the 24-hour period.

Rather sheepish, he retreated 'to check', although I knew he knew anyway.
Returning, he apologised and gave us both a TM30 receipt. The other gentleman thanked me as we were leaving.

[Faz]

30 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Thanks I never really here guys talk about the re-entry permit so I never knew that 

Only required if you intend to leave and return during your 1-year extension, which is a permit allowing you to stay, whilst it allows you to stay for a set period, it does not allow you to leave and return.
If (as has happened) you inadvertently left without obtaining a re-entry permit, any permission of stay already granted would immediately cease on your exit.

On returning, you'd be allowed to enter, but only for 30 days, and you'd have to start the whole procedure from scratch again.

The re-entry permit protects any permission of stay you have already been granted.
If for example your 1-year extension was dated Apr 2023 to April 2024, but you left for 2 months in October, returning December, on arrival the IO will stamp you back in until Apr 2024.

[Marc26]

10 minutes ago, Faz said:

Only required if you intend to leave and return during your 1-year extension, which is a permit allowing you to stay, whilst it allows you to stay for a set period, it does not allow you to leave and return.
If (as has happened) you inadvertently left without obtaining a re-entry permit, any permission of stay already granted would immediately cease on your exit.

On returning, you'd be allowed to enter, but only for 30 days, and you'd have to start the whole procedure from scratch again.

The re-entry permit protects any permission of stay you have already been granted.
If for example your 1-year extension was dated Apr 2023 to April 2024, but you left for 2 months in October, returning December, on arrival the IO will stamp you back in until Apr 2024.

I will always be leaving and coming back once we are settled in Thailand 

I got ants in my pants 5555

 

[ChicagoExpat]

On 5/28/2023 at 10:41 PM, Faz said:

 However, unfortunately for British, Australian and American citizens this service was withdrawn at the beginning of 2019. Immigration changed the rules allowing transfers to a Thai bank account as evidence of monthly income for those citizens.

This was a good thing for those citizens -- one less $50 stupid notary service to do.

[Thai_Law]

On 10/22/2022 at 11:22 AM, Chaimai said:

The requirement is to show 400,000 Baht in a Thai bank evidenced by bank passbook and a bank letter. The funds have to be in the bank for 2 months prior to your extension application.

Alternatively, you can show monthly income of 40,000 Baht into a Thai bank account for 12 months. This is evidenced by bank letter and bank statements showing the 40k going in each month.

Be aware that there may subtle differences in requirements from different Immigration offices.

This is the correct advice here. Using the income method is almost not possible for the first time around. Use there deposit method the first time. if you have trouble, reach out to an agent. we can help. DM me.

[Thai_Law]

On 10/22/2022 at 6:20 PM, Faz said:

Welcome to the forum @Weave73.

There is no such thing as a Marriage Visa.

Are you applying for the Non Imm O Visa based on Thai spouse from a Thai Embassy, OR, asking about a 1-year extension of permission of stay based on Thai spouse from a local Thai Immigration office ?

We all know what you are saying, but the average guy does not. we also often call it a Thai wife visa. Yes, it's not the correct legal terminology, but we all know what the OP means.  

[oldschooler]

 

vi·sa (noun)

“an endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country” 

note the “stay” part but yeah “ no such things as a marriage or retirement or tourist “ visa” , right…..

 “ permit to stay” is clearly a “visa” and vice versa. Pointless distinction by the “immigration lawyers” here confuses many. But hey call it a permit to stay then ,if you pedantically insist.who gives a shyte.

I always use an Agent to avoid all that immy humiliation mess around. Or just go visa exempt.