News Forum - Putin: Russian government is trying to end the Ukraine invasion

[Fanta]

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:01 AM, Marble-eye said:

And stop designing this debate to suit your own agenda, "one military push into Kyiv" they tried that once and failed if my memory serves me well, besides how does adding that to the debate mean anything. Peace talks = Russia stalling for time and Zelensky knows that peace talks = surrender and the loss of his country, Ukraine has two options 1. Fight option 2. Fight. Anything else is a no brainer and will not be entertained.

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No. Your solution is simply more war with no end in the foreseeable future while peace talks, as unpalatable as they are, offer a realistic solution that will eventually occur anyway and it is better sooner rather than later for all parties. You constantly equate peace talks with surrender. No same same. Get it through your head. 

[Fanta]

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:01 AM, EdwardV said:

The lack of Russian willpower to punish Russia is what got Russia in the war? 
 

How do you enforce a security agreement against a future Russian invasion without either foreign troops on the ground or a binding article 5 type language? Neither of which Russia would agree too. You keep talking about a security agreement like it’s possible. It’s not. Anything Ukraine would demand Russia won’t agree too, and anything Russia would demand isn’t something which would offer Ukraine any security. It’s a pipe dream. Ukraine isn’t going to be secure until the Russian army is no longer a threat. Lucky for them that’s no longer unbelievable. 

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So the aim is to crush Russia’s military and by default the nation. This is the Cold War grown warm.  Good luck on that one. Ukraine is already a battlefield and there is no reason to believe that will change as long as Ukraine persists with attempts to join NATO. And it could all be avoided with peace talks, neutrality and security guarantees. Iran, Iraq, Israel etc , all arch enemies. have uneasily co-existed for decades since their wars ended largely based on peace treaties so the “crush Russia sooner rather than later” argument just doesn’t cut it. 

[EdwardV]

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:40 AM, Fanta said:

So the aim is to crush Russia’s military and by default the nation. This is the Cold War grown warm.

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You don’t have to crush Russia in order to crush its army. Remember some 80% of all Russian battalion tactical groups are in Ukraine. You only have to crush those to succeed. Any warmth was started by Russia and continues because of Russia. Ukraine is just defending itself. 

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:40 AM, Fanta said:

Iran, Iraq, Israel etc , all arch enemies. have uneasily co-existed for decades since their wars ended largely based on peace treaties so the “crush Russia sooner rather than later” argument just doesn’t cut it. 

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That would make more sense if they had not fought what 5-6 wars against each other. Fact is those wars didn’t end because of a security agreement. They ended because the Israel’s defeated the opposing armies on the battlefield (often larger armies at that). That uneasy co-existence was only possible because of Israeli strength and US support. You do know there has been pre-positioned US equipment in Israel for decades right? You think Russia would allow that in Ukraine? 

[Marble-eye]

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:24 AM, Fanta said:

No. Your solution is simply more war with no end in the foreseeable future while peace talks, as unpalatable as they are, offer a realistic solution that will eventually occur anyway and it is better sooner rather than later for all parties. You constantly equate peace talks with surrender. No same same. Get it through your head. 

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No you are wrong again, there is only one party here that is capable of stopping the war and that would be Russia. All they need to do is remove themselves from all territories that that have stolen and only you on here find that untenable. 

As it's been explained to you time and time again peace talks are a total waste of time and would achieve nothing but to give Putin some more breathing room.

Incidentally do you think out of a full squad of recruits that you are the only one in step and further more using inflammatory words like "get it through your head," is conducive with civilised debate you would be very wrong.

[Smithydog]

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