News Forum - Thailand backs ‘One China’ policy amid US Taiwan PR disaster

[Mudshark]

3 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

do you think the US would accept a similar situation if Chinese built bases like this around the States?

Nice map. However starting at the US base in Hong Kong China (!), loop through the Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia, Singapore, back up to those three bases in SEA. That is ten bases that currently do not exist. Note the US coast Guard does refuel and maintain supplies at Singapore. A lot less threatening once the historical bases, but not current, are erased.  

Erase both Afghanistan and Pakistan bases too. 

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

There are over 20 US bases and military facilities operating on Philippine territory, occupying 90000 hectares of land.

You want to back that up with something? The US has no permanent bases in the Philippines, the last one was in the 90s. What they do have is a “Visiting Forces Agreement” which allows US troops to visit on a temporary basis to help train with Philippine troops on Philippine bases. It’s part of the US Philippine mutual defense treaty. I do understand that’s probably a foreign concept to you as China doesn’t many of those (Pakistan maybe?). 
 

https://news.usni.org/2020/06/08/philippines-freezes-pull-out-from-visiting-u-s-forces-agreement

 

[EdwardV]

8 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

The kind of thinking that believes Sandy Hook was a hoax.

Another whataboutism. Classic reply when you run out of facts in an argument. 

[riclag]

4 hours ago, garyknrd said:

With de-globalization coming fast. All the US has to do is wait and stop being stupid. In 5-10 years the China factories from the US will be relocated. The US will not loose any sleep over China in the next decade. Pelosi needs to be put out to pasture..

Yes Mr. Bob is a idiot .I too am surprised he was allowed to voice his opinion! Im all for deglobalists , especially when it comes to the CCP.
 

 And the 80 yr old,  knows she’s gonna be out of the leadership position ,due to the reported trouncing  her party is gonna get in the midterm elections come November.She went on the tax payers dime  , her and her large delegation!

Just think of all the ice cream she can buy with the savings as opposed to going as a private citizen!

 

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

 

 And the 80 yr old,  knows she’s gonna be out of the leadership position ,due to the reported trouncing  her party is gonna get in the midterm elections come November.

Are you sure about that???

 

I'd make a friendly wager you could be wrong................

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, Khunmark said:

A foreign power in same manner as The English were a foreign power invading North America or Australia. Truth is Chinese occupation of Taiwan predates 1949 and can be traced back to the Ching dynasty. So if you want to play that card feel free. And as an aside the aboriginal population of Taiwan were just as delighted  as the aboriginal populations of America and Australia  when the Chinese came marching in, Ching dynasty and ROC inclusive.

CCP never occupied Taiwan and crucially rejected by the people there. 
case closed. CCP have zero legit claim on Taiwan. Under democratic rules.

Only tyrants claim land by force disregarding the wishes of the people there. CCP invasion of Tibet for example although they had to do that to prevent a weak Tibet falling to India. 

[NorskTiger]

Let us return to the headline of this thread and the fact that the legitimate governing body of Thailand makes it clear it supports SQ and does not want to pick a side. Why does this matter? Because Thailand is one of THE most sovereign powers in Asia. 

    Besides a cohercive/occupation-style ordal with the Japanese in early WW2, Thaiald has never been colonied. Their historical threat pattern is Burma. The Thai banking system is one of the best capitalized with stable foreign reserves in the world. And it's status as a major food exporter is also increasingly significant. 

 

     I have dated several very intelligent and well-versed Thai ladies who have taught me a lot about the Thai view upon the world, or more specifically, Asia. I have a friend who is a cyber security expert in Thai army and she hardly knew who Hitler was. The latter is an "outrage" in the west, but merely shows where the Thai focus and worldview sits.  

       By projecting their indepedence here, they are making it clear they do not want Western vassalhood and also signals to China that, YES, they value the BRI projects in Thailand more than the CIA-sponsored attempts to tear down their monarchy and replace it with the regular Liberal globalism model. 

       When you go on the ferris wheel at Asiatique and pay more because you are not Thai, as a matter of the norm. it also shows a lot about Thailand belief and thoughts about itself. 

 

     At this time, with strong capitalized reserves; world's 8-9th food exporter; tourism magnet number one in the world; women to die for and a staunch zeal to be sovereign, Thailand is making an early message here. "Don't drag us into this mess and leave us out of it", both to China and USA. 

 

[NorskTiger]

10 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

.....Only tyrants claim land by force disregarding the wishes of the people there. CCP invasion of Tibet for example although they had to do that to prevent a weak Tibet falling to India.....

   If the first sentence is a principle and the second one a mere example, I believe the US colonization and murder of the overwhelming majority of the original inhabitants may be one of the best ones. 

    Great powers have a tendency to do what they want. When a fading power clashes with a great one, things tend to happen. 

  

[dmacarelli]

I love it. Of course Thailand is going to take China's side. When was the last time Thailand took a position that was just and righteous? 

China is acting like a bully, with the entire China Sea region and the nations within it. Someone has to stand up to them. And in reality, they seem to have nothing but bad intentions for the future, and the exertion of more and more control. As an American, I question alot of US policy. Not this time. 

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

   If the first sentence is a principle and the second one a mere example, I believe the US colonization and murder of the overwhelming majority of the original inhabitants may be one of the best ones. 

    Great powers have a tendency to do what they want. When a fading power clashes with a great one, things tend to happen. 

Suppose it’s the human condition that when a more advanced (superior) civilization colonizes, the inferior culture is practically obliterated by disease, forced labour and force of arms.

China & Tibet and yes USA & Native Indians , Spain & Natives, Australia, are all examples of that. Been going on since Neolithic times eight thousand years ago. 

But for China, a backward tyranny, to be coveting a free, more advanced independent nation like Taiwan, disregarding the wishes of the settled people, is just absurd.But serves as a convenient pivot for CCP’s Destruction. 

Terms such as “ fading” and “ great” are subjective and relative. USA will crush the CCP Military in 48 hours when they eventually try to invade Taiwan. CCP won’t even see it comingJapan, S. Korea, Taiwan will all join in for fun

Numbers of men and equipment are irrelevant without experience, morale, competence and power projection which if “fading” USA are still scoring 95/100, China are what 5/100. No Contest in conventional military terms.

[NorskTiger]

3 hours ago, dmacarelli said:

I love it. Of course Thailand is going to take China's side. When was the last time Thailand took a position that was just and righteous? 

China is acting like a bully, with the entire China Sea region and the nations within it. Someone has to stand up to them. And in reality, they seem to have nothing but bad intentions for the future, and the exertion of more and more control. As an American, I question alot of US policy. Not this time. 

      Thailand is NOT taking China's side. It is merely reiterating the same stance which most of the world has had. The underlying act of this being stated NOW is merely to (as a close neighbor and well-tied regional partner) to state that they would prefer not to be dragged into this. 

      In reciprocity, China is NOT trying to drive regime shifts or influence major shifts within Thailand. China is heavily invested in BRI initiative in Thailand. There are Chinese everywhere; the upper strata in Thailand has MANY Thai-Chinese connections. Finally, Thailand has never been colonized by the regular suspects and their powers as an almost sole nation in the region. These things drive a closer tie to China than to a nation on the other side of the globe. 

     Whether or not China is a "big bully" is in the eye of the beholder. The 50+ millions people taken out of poverty within the last 10 years definitely do not think so.  On the contrary many peoples and nations accross the world think the sme about USA. Again, Thailand is being wise here, not taking a stance. 

    Implying that Thailand has a policy that is unjust is simply a petty insult towards the monarchy. It is your opinion, but still insulting. 

    Sabai Sabai.

Edited August 5, 2022 by NorskTiger

[NorskTiger]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Suppose it’s the human condition that when a more advanced (superior) civilization colonizes, the inferior culture is practically obliterated by disease, forced labour and force of arms.

China & Tibet and yes USA & Native Indians , Spain & Natives, Australia, are all examples of that. Been going on since Neolithic times eight thousand years ago. 

But for China, a backward tyranny, to be coveting a free, more advanced independent nation like Taiwan, disregarding the wishes of the settled people, is just absurd.But serves as a convenient pivot for CCP’s Destruction. 

Terms such as “ fading” and “ great” are subjective and relative. USA will crush the CCP Military in 48 hours when they eventually try to invade Taiwan. CCP won’t even see it comingJapan, S. Korea, Taiwan will all join in for fun

Numbers of men and equipment are irrelevant without experience, morale, competence and power projection which if “fading” USA are still scoring 95/100, China are what 5/100. No Contest in conventional military terms.

    Again, calling China a "backwards tyranny" neglects the recognition of the greatest achievement in humanity with the abolishment of poverty and starvation in the country. Of course, "fading" and "great" are subjective, but so is "tyranny". 

 

     When it comes to military situation, I recognize your sense of bloodlust here, but a few things sem dertain. A nation who (after 20 years) cannot defeat a people without air force or heavy weapons maybe should not boast of "competence". Neither is it very "moral" to accept 5 out of 6 (or so according to many analysts) casualty rate of innocents in order to get one "terrorist" or much value in a n experience of constantly losing every armed conflict in modern time one enters into.  There is NO EVIDENCE that USA will "crush China". The latter amost single-handedly bled out Japan during WW2 and has a people's power of mass organization that always will defeat mercenaries far away from home. 

    But why talk about "war"? China has ONE military base outside it's nation and does not desire to be world police. I believe the entire Taiwan ordeal is a very minor thing for China, in a sense that there is little point in making the island reunite with the mainland thorugh military means. Instead, China will continue to grow it's economy and develop the Asian infrastructure and I feel certain Taiwan is more likely to WILLINGLY integrate with China through peaceful transition as it's economy become alomost totally dependent upon the former. 

    I know MANY MANY Chinese businessmen in Thailand. Some of them even post on Thaiger. None of them project obnoxious sense of imperialism or a zeal to be the new Rome. What most of them have in common is an incredibly talented ay of looking at the region; at Thailand and learning about us Westerners. It has been said many times before, but it truly is noticeable that when Americans think in days, Chinese think in years. Most of them see the struggle with USA of today as the culmination of a decolonization that started with the Boxer rebellion. I am confident Thailand is very prudently holding their own in choosing not t be dragged into the hegemons need to fight everyone they cannot subjugate. 

[oldschooler]

11 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

    Again, calling China a "backwards tyranny" neglects the recognition of the greatest achievement in humanity with the abolishment of poverty and starvation in the country. Of course, "fading" and "great" are subjective, but so is "tyranny". 

     When it comes to military situation, I recognize your sense of bloodlust here, but a few things sem dertain. A nation who (after 20 years) cannot defeat a people without air force or heavy weapons maybe should not boast of "competence". Neither is it very "moral" to accept 5 out of 6 (or so according to many analysts) casualty rate of innocents in order to get one "terrorist" or much value in a n experience of constantly losing every armed conflict in modern time one enters into.  There is NO EVIDENCE that USA will "crush China". The latter amost single-handedly bled out Japan during WW2 and has a people's power of mass organization that always will defeat mercenaries far away from home. 

    But why talk about "war"? China has ONE military base outside it's nation and does not desire to be world police. I believe the entire Taiwan ordeal is a very minor thing for China, in a sense that there is little point in making the island reunite with the mainland thorugh military means. Instead, China will continue to grow it's economy and develop the Asian infrastructure and I feel certain Taiwan is more likely to WILLINGLY integrate with China through peaceful transition as it's economy become alomost totally dependent upon the former. 

    I know MANY MANY Chinese businessmen in Thailand. Some of them even post on Thaiger. None of them project obnoxious sense of imperialism or a zeal to be the new Rome. What most of them have in common is an incredibly talented ay of looking at the region; at Thailand and learning about us Westerners. It has been said many times before, but it truly is noticeable that when Americans think in days, Chinese think in years. Most of them see the struggle with USA of today as the culmination of a decolonization that started with the Boxer rebellion. I am confident Thailand is very prudently holding their own in choosing not t be dragged into the hegemons need to fight everyone they cannot subjugate. 

The practice of Capitalism alone has lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese from poverty and seen off famine and drought. CCP ruined and held back China for 40 years before being forced to “allow” Capitalism for CCP survival reasons only not for peoples benefit. Tyranny serves only Itself. 

China did relatively very little in WW2 except tie down the occupying Japanese armies. Japan was 99% defeated by USA and in Burma by Britain / India. 

Tyranny is clear & absolute not relative.

China are a great economic and regional power but insufficient war capability outside own land borders.

The “bloodlust” always comes from tyrants like Xi who see all people as expendable in serving their tyrannical power objectives. Tyrants start Wars. Democracy Ends Wars.

Like any rational free person I look forward to the utter destruction of the CCP Tyranny which oppresses, enslaves and betrays the great Chinese people. 

Only two forces can destroy the CCP:-

Internal : Chinese People

External : Free Pacific Alliance (USA etc)

[astro]

15 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

The practice of Capitalism alone has lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese from poverty and seen off famine and drought. CCP ruined and held back China for 40 years before being forced to “allow” Capitalism for CCP survival reasons only not for peoples benefit. Tyranny serves only Itself. 

You forget that famine & drought during the emperor period were what kicked off the revolution.

Do really believe the ordinary factory workers have been "lifted" from poverty? I'd rather say they are being exploited and work under conditions which have been unimaginable in Europe for decades - that is what capitalism combined with state corruption do.

[stevenkongju]

On 8/5/2022 at 5:53 AM, Khunmark said:

All nations have a past to reconcile, each past is nuanced and unique. Failure to recognise this smacks of arrogance and ignorance.

What "smacks of arraogance and ignorance" is to somehow believe that the actions of the US today are even close to the level of malevolance that the CCCP actions are. The current genocide of the Uyghers for a start. How about the continued destruction of the Tibeten culture? The persecution of Falun Gong members? The current slave labor of political prisoners ain't so nice. Squashing democracy in Hong Kong, after signing a treaty promising that the city would remain free for 50 years is another strike. And do you wanna talk getting involved in affairs of other countries? How about the wholesale theft of technologies and intellectual property? We also have the Belt and Road Initiative that takes advantage of poor countries desperation by building infrastructure and then basically changing usury type repayments.

We could go on and talk about the surveillance state that is the PRC, the lack of freedom of speech, association, religion, press et al. But I suppose that would just be Western Arrogance. I am sure the average Chinese citizen wants none of these freedoms.

Has the US been perfect? Nope. Is it perfect now? Nope, again. But US citizens are allowed to criticize their leaders, talk about the stain that was chattel slavery, argue about the past and even present treatment of native Americans and protest any time they believe their government has failed them or the world.

I tried not to answer the above rediculous post, but sometimes we need to call out BS.

[Rookiescot]

Fact is the US is always going to support and defend Taiwan because two of the worlds biggest semiconductor companies are located there.

There is no way the west could allow those to fall into the hands of China.

Xi for his part wants those companies and the tech they hold. The nonsense about one China and sovereign territory is simply a dog whistle to Chinese nationalists (most of the people in China).

Taiwan also has highly trained and equipped defense forces and taking that island would be very difficult especially given the population would not be welcoming to the Chinese invaders.

China will also be looking at the sanctions Russia is now under after its illegal invasion of the Ukraine. Such sanctions against China would bankrupt the country. Its economy is already in a precarious state.

Mortgage strikes threaten China’s economic and political stability | China | The Guardian 

[Khunmark]

1 hour ago, stevenkongju said:

What "smacks of arraogance and ignorance" is to somehow believe that the actions of the US today are even close to the level of malevolance that the CCCP actions are. The current genocide of the Uyghers for a start. How about the continued destruction of the Tibeten culture? The persecution of Falun Gong members? The current slave labor of political prisoners ain't so nice. Squashing democracy in Hong Kong, after signing a treaty promising that the city would remain free for 50 years is another strike. And do you wanna talk getting involved in affairs of other countries? How about the wholesale theft of technologies and intellectual property? We also have the Belt and Road Initiative that takes advantage of poor countries desperation by building infrastructure and then basically changing usury type repayments.

We could go on and talk about the surveillance state that is the PRC, the lack of freedom of speech, association, religion, press et al. But I suppose that would just be Western Arrogance. I am sure the average Chinese citizen wants none of these freedoms.

Has the US been perfect? Nope. Is it perfect now? Nope, again. But US citizens are allowed to criticize their leaders, talk about the stain that was chattel slavery, argue about the past and even present treatment of native Americans and protest any time they believe their government has failed them or the world.

I tried not to answer the above rediculous post, but sometimes we need to call out BS.

Great post- I love parody! Julian Assange loves this post too.

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, astro said:

You forget that famine & drought during the emperor period were what kicked off the revolution.

Do really believe the ordinary factory workers have been "lifted" from poverty? I'd rather say they are being exploited and work under conditions which have been unimaginable in Europe for decades - that is what capitalism combined with state corruption do.

You are making separate points. Whataboutism.

[Khunmark]

19 hours ago, oldschooler said:

CCP never occupied Taiwan and crucially rejected by the people there. 
case closed. CCP have zero legit claim on Taiwan. Under democratic rules.

Only tyrants claim land by force disregarding the wishes of the people there. CCP invasion of Tibet for example although they had to do that to prevent a weak Tibet falling to India. 

What? Like Diego Garcia you mean? 

[Khunmark]

23 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Wrong card. I wasn’t making the point out the fact communist China has never owned Taiwan. My point was the fact Taiwan is an independent country and completely separate from mainland China. That it’s mainland China who is in fact the foreign power intent on interfering with Taiwan. 

Then you’d better tell that to the United Nations. 

[astro]

25 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

You are making separate points. Whataboutism.

Nah, just correcting your misconceptions.

No need to thank me.

[DesperateOldHand]

And still......the dominant paradigm insist on a continuous make believe boogieman [them] and a deluded shining light [us]. 

The particular Kool-Aid, tainted with perceived and misdirected illusions, is terribly easy to digest.

[DesperateOldHand]

40 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

What? Like Diego Garcia you mean? 

Or thousands of other locales and instances that are conveniently lost in the malaise of historic and current affairs.

[stevenkongju]

1 hour ago, Khunmark said:

3 hours ago, stevenkongju said:

What "smacks of arraogance and ignorance" is to somehow believe that the actions of the US today are even close to the level of malevolance that the CCCP actions are. The current genocide of the Uyghers for a start. How about the continued destruction of the Tibeten culture? The persecution of Falun Gong members? The current slave labor of political prisoners ain't so nice. Squashing democracy in Hong Kong, after signing a treaty promising that the city would remain free for 50 years is another strike. And do you wanna talk getting involved in affairs of other countries? How about the wholesale theft of technologies and intellectual property? We also have the Belt and Road Initiative that takes advantage of poor countries desperation by building infrastructure and then basically changing usury type repayments.

We could go on and talk about the surveillance state that is the PRC, the lack of freedom of speech, association, religion, press et al. But I suppose that would just be Western Arrogance. I am sure the average Chinese citizen wants none of these freedoms.

Has the US been perfect? Nope. Is it perfect now? Nope, again. But US citizens are allowed to criticize their leaders, talk about the stain that was chattel slavery, argue about the past and even present treatment of native Americans and protest any time they believe their government has failed them or the world.

I tried not to answer the above rediculous post, but sometimes we need to call out BS.

Expand  

Great post- I love parody! Julian Assange loves this post too.

So no real reply...I figured.

[Outsider]

On 8/4/2022 at 1:11 PM, Chairman said:

Presumably Bob Scott works for The Nation and/or Bangkok Post. Felt his piece on the Pelosi visit to Taipei was hugely biased. That style of writing is not for me. I have always sought out balanced, objective and fact based news reporting over opinion pieces. But it’s becoming increasingly difficult to find. It would be great if The Thaiger could exercise more editorial control over what it chooses to copy paste. 

So you would  suggest greater  censoring of  not only content but opportunity to comment as you have done already on the basis of  perceived bias  versus  a journalistic perspective that  does not conform to yours? How then to establish balance in presentation of  opinion ? Exercise more (editorial)  control?  Think on   !