News Forum - Putin declares Mariupol ‘liberated’ despite Ukrainian troops, civilians holding out

[vlad]

Your getting confused Haw Haw 1 Minute you're quoting " The British Biased Company " then you're posting a link from the BBC News?. We know full well how honest and truthful the kremlin is when posting news. All morning news in the UK reported the Russian troops have entered the Tunnel systems under the steelworks in an all-out assault.  Unless of course, you think all media in the UK is misleading the British public.

[Guevara]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:20 PM, EdwardV said:

I've never called him one, don't lump me in with others. Making bad decisions, just about every one of them has backfired on him, doesn't make him crazy. 

I'm not saying Putin won't drop a nuke, but he isn't going to obliterate London. There is no reason to think he is suicidal. If he does, it will be a small tactical one in Ukraine. Not on NATO as he can't win that war. Not sure he will, but it could happen. It will be to warn NATO off and to convince Ukraine to capitulate. If he does, two things instantly happen in return. First is every NATO country with a nuclear reactor will start building a bomb. Second is NATO will forward deploy into Ukraine. Probably just east of Kyiv down to east of Odesa.

Putin has delusions of grandeur for sure, but he isn't the first leader to have that. His problem is he waited too long to act. Had he fully invaded Ukraine back in 2014, it probably would have worked. 

You are right about Putin suffering delusions of grandeur but a good number of Schizophreniccsor Schizo Affective disorders do. Putin's difference is that he is a very dangerous Sociopath who is sadly suffering with the dismantling of the USSR, it's called Prolonged Grief Reaction. Treatable but in his case , too late.

[astro]

On 5/4/2022 at 9:38 AM, vlad said:

So are you still saying their Alleged war crimes or do you admit it has happened don't deflect the question we are discussing Russian war crimes not Ukrainian?

Actually, we have been discussing both.

It does seem to be a rather odd, not to say superfluous question whether one acknowledges that warcrimes are being committed and whether one condemns them or not, but then...

while I haven't seen anybody approving of or even applauding Russian warcrimes, that hasn't been so for the Ukrainian side.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by astro

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Guevara said:

You are right about Putin suffering delusions of grandeur but a good number of Schizophreniccsor Schizo Affective disorders do. Putin's difference is that he is a very dangerous Sociopath who is sadly suffering with the dismantling of the USSR, it's called Prolonged Grief Reaction. Treatable but in his case , too late.

you have outdated data.  Over the past few years, Putin has publicly scolded the USSR many times and blamed it for many of today's problems in Russia.  The more problems, the more the USSR was to blame.

[Fanta]

Russian President Vladimir Putin says Ukraine should order its fighters remaining in Mariupol's besieged Azovstal steel plant to put down their weapons and surrender.

The last video call with the leader of the Azov soldiers trapped in the steelworks says they will follow orders and continue fighting. After the civilians are moved out of the firing line over the next few days the remaining Ukrainian soldiers trapped underground will either surrender or die.

No doubt the Ukrainian propaganda team will push this as a courageous fight  to the death and a needless slaughter by the Russians while the ignoring the truth that their deaths are totally unnecessary. I noted all the Ukrainian wives of the trapped soldiers gathered to appeal for help all held signs written in English. I guess appealing to Zelenskyy to order them to surrender or for help is considered an act of treason or a waste of time.

 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I noted all the Ukrainian wives of the trapped soldiers gathered to appeal for help all held signs written in English.

Were they immediately arrested as they would be in Russia?

[Fanta]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Were they immediately arrested as they would be in Russia?

Of course not. As far as we know Ukraine only arrests those who don’t put a positive slant on Ukraine’s war efforts, much like Russia has been doing. Here’s an example. 

 

Authorities in Ukraine have arrested a journalist with a Kremlin-funded news agency who they said “justified” Crimea’s annexation, “supported” pro-Russian separatists and now faces up to 15 years in jail for treason.

https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russian-journalist-20180517-story.html

 

[Rookiescot]

53 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Of course not. As far as we know Ukraine only arrests those who don’t put a positive slant on Ukraine’s war efforts, much like Russia has been doing. Here’s an example. 

Authorities in Ukraine have arrested a journalist with a Kremlin-funded news agency who they said “justified” Crimea’s annexation, “supported” pro-Russian separatists and now faces up to 15 years in jail for treason.

https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russian-journalist-20180517-story.html

 

[Fanta]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Both sides are doing it, same as alleged war crimes. Pointing out one sides wrongs while ignoring the other sides wrongs is biased at best, deceitful at worst.

[EdwardV]

9 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

you have outdated data.  Over the past few years, Putin has publicly scolded the USSR many times and blamed it for many of today's problems in Russia.  The more problems, the more the USSR was to blame.

“Scolded” oh my how awful. Of course he needs a fall guy, can’t blame everything on the West (not that he doesn’t try). I don’t think you are really proving your point. 
 

Putin has been very clear the collapse of the Soviet Union “was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century”. That doesn’t sound like someone blaming the USSR for the problems of today. 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Both sides are doing it, same as alleged war crimes. Pointing out one sides wrongs while ignoring the other sides wrongs is biased at best, deceitful at worst.

But thats what you do. You ignore Czar Putins crimes and defend him constantly.

[Guphz]

On 4/23/2022 at 2:38 AM, Fanta said:

So the Ukrainians were not fighting tooth and nail and using the protection of buildings to defend Mariupol? You cannot fire weapons from inside buildings and not expect to be fired upon in return. The theory that the Russians are bombing urban areas to force civilians to be evacuated leaving only soldiers behind seems extremely probable. not that the Russians are attacking civilians for the fun of it. At Kyiv the Russians announced, hours beforehand, that they would be attacking the TV tower and to move civilians out of the way. That is hardly consistent with the indiscriminate targeting portrayed by the Western media.

Russians reduced the entire city to rubble. This is a war crime. You can keep defending Russia's war crimes forever, but that just says more about you than anyhthing else.

No, Russia is not attacking civilians for the fun of it. Russia is attacking civilians to spread terror. It's the same thing they have done in every war.

Quote

 

Sadly the rules of war, as defined by the Geneva Convetion, are being ignored by both sides. Ukrainian soldiers are on video kneecapping bound Russian POWs, executing POWs before mutilating their corpses then dumping them on the road like trash but we never see that in Western media. The Kyiv Independent reported that dead Russian soldiers are being dug up and swapper for live Ukrainian POWs. 2 dead Russians for 6 live Ukrainian soldiers is the current exchange rate. Hell of a good deal for the Ukrainians and not mentioned in the Western media. Is that a war crime or simply beyond distasteful? Either way it is rejected as an unsuitable ingredient for the mix spewed out by the propaganda pumps. No-one wants a nasty surprise in their propaganda pie.

 

Your claims are all obviously completely untrustworthy. The claim that the supposed Russian POWs being shot in the legs was not shown in Western media is completely false, and a simple Google search would reveal your untruths. For example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

Of course, if it is really true that Ukrainian soldiers shot Russian POWs in the legs, I hereby denounce their actions, and I denounce all war crimes on the Ukrainian side. Indeed, Ukrainian authorities are looking into the alleged war crime you mentioned.

But while I denounce any war crimes by Ukrainian forces, you cannot bring yourself to do the same with Russia. Just look at how you are actually defending the way they completely flattened Mariupol and murdered countless innocent civilians.

[Guphz]

On 4/23/2022 at 3:09 AM, Fanta said:

I have asked this question twice and the slack jaws it creates must force fingers away from keyboards. If the Russian Armed Forces are so shit why hasn’t Ukraine destroyed them? 440,000 dig in on home soil against 200,000. Why?

Russia outnumbered and outgunned Ukraine from the start. Ukraine then started calling in reserves and basically revving up for war.

By the way, according to Wikipedia which you linked to, Ukraine had around 40,000 deployed personnel in 2021. Active personnel was 196,600 as of 2022. These can't magically be deployed overnight. The 400k figure is the number of people reaching military age yearly.

Anyway, Russia had more active troops than Ukraine when they invaded. And of course bigger guns. And they still managed to mess everything up in their eternal incompetence.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Guphz