News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Rookiescot]

7 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

of course you can change the title on paper. but the townspeople will call the city as before, as long as the people of Kiev live in it, and this is exactly what is happening now. Alas.

Its up to the Ukrainians what they call it. They want to call it Kyiv. Get used to it.

[Fanta]

45 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

One incident. Show me one where the west targeted something like a railway station full of women and kids.

Shock and Awe. 

[Smithydog]

13 hours ago, Thaidup said:

My view on this predicament, is simply my view, I do not support Russia nor do I support Ukraine, My point is to remind us all that the only winners in these conflicts are "The military industrial complex" as Eisenhower once warned of.

Very true....the Industrialists seemingly always find a way to win no matter where they are!

[Smithydog]

12 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

fair. but Russia has not expanded in the last 20 years, unlike NATO.

An unusual and unfair comparison. Russia is a country. NATO is a military alliance of countries. I feel that the CSTO - Collective Security Treaty Organization is a better comparison with NATO. I note that it too has expanded since its formation. Is that an issue as well or is it just NATO?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization#:~:text=The Collective Security Treaty Organization,intergovernmental military alliance in Eurasia.

Attempts to expand a country beyond recognised national borders is way different to a "club" growing through individual countries choosing to join an alliance whilst retaining national identity and boundaries.

 

[Santa]

On 4/24/2022 at 8:41 PM, Rookiescot said:

You must also be aware of how western tanks store their ammunition outside of the crew compartment. Indeed they store it in a section of the tank designed to take any blast away from the crew.

You know zero about western tanks. The above reply is a complete joke. Do you really think there's enough room in a tank for separate bomb proof compartments?  You'll try convincing us next about where the toilet is situated. 

[Guest1]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

One incident. Show me one where the west targeted something like a railway station full of women and kids.

My guess is, if the west would have targeted a railwaystation with 4000 people in it, they would have killed more as "just 50". Dont you think so, too?

[EdwardV]

18 minutes ago, Santa said:

You know zero about western tanks. The above reply is a complete joke. Do you really think there's enough room in a tank for separate bomb proof compartments?  You'll try convincing us next about where the toilet is situated. 

Other Western tanks, such as the M1 Abrams used by the US and some allied armies, are larger and have no carousel. In the Abrams, a fourth crew member in the tank retrieves shells from a sealed compartment and transfers them to the gun for firing. The compartment has a door that the crew member opens and closes between each shot taken by the tank, meaning that if the tank is hit, only one shell is likely to be exposed in the turret. "An accurate hit can damage the tank, but not necessarily kill the crew," Bendett said.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/27/europe/russia-tanks-blown-turrets-intl-hnk-ml/index.html 

The article mostly talks about the design flaw in Russian tanks and how they like to do a Jack in the box impression when hit. 

 

[Smithydog]

29 minutes ago, Santa said:

You know zero about western tanks. The above reply is a complete joke. Do you really think there's enough room in a tank for separate bomb proof compartments?  You'll try convincing us next about where the toilet is situated. 

Well it certainly seems to apply to the M1-A2 tank.

"Armament load is placed in special built armed combat load compartment. Main gun is fitted with ejector and thermo sleeve body. Ammunition load compartment is separated from crew with armored screens. Ammunition load compartment has it's own hatch used to load ammunition storage. Furthermore it has special construction which blows off hatch and releases explosion energy threw it saving crew members, in case of direct hit into ammunition storage."

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product429.html

But I think we are getting a bit off topic here with the comparisons. 

[KRLMRX]

43 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

An unusual and unfair comparison. Russia is a country. NATO is a military alliance of countries. I feel that the CSTO - Collective Security Treaty Organization is a better comparison with NATO. I note that it too has expanded since its formation. Is that an issue as well or is it just NATO?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization#:~:text=The Collective Security Treaty Organization,intergovernmental military alliance in Eurasia.

Attempts to expand a country beyond recognised national borders is way different to a "club" growing through individual countries choosing to join an alliance whilst retaining national identity and boundaries.

the confrontation is between NATO and Russia. CSTO does not participate. and the CSTO has not almost doubled in 20 years and has not participated in military operations in third countries.

[Guest1]

46 minutes ago, Santa said:

You know zero about western tanks. The above reply is a complete joke. Do you really think there's enough room in a tank for separate bomb proof compartments?  You'll try convincing us next about where the toilet is situated. 

Yes, indeed, it is!

That destroyed russian tanks have often "lost" the turret has one reason: they have build the amunition chamber UNDER the turret, the crew is sitting on top.

That was, some decades ago, a speed advantage (T72 every 3 or 4 sec. Was one shot of 44 rounds possible), realized through an load mechanic with short ways. And one person less on bord needed.

Western tanks are more about "safety" for the own crew. The Leopard 2 has 2 chambers for amunition, one of it is only reachable, in case the torret is attached to 3 o'clock position.

"You know zero about .... ", this kind of phrasing, with obviously absolutely no knowledge yourself,  why does seem that so familiar in this topic, star.. eh, santa?

 

 

[KRLMRX]

8 hours ago, EdwardV said:

It is when they bring Russian artillery and tanks with them (whoever they were), and start a civil war. Those things have a tendency to kill people and destroy things.  

this is the reason for the current crisis - some bastards can destroy cities and kill people, others are not and they are outraged by this. discrimination against scoundrels, resulting in the death of ordinary people.

8 hours ago, EdwardV said:

That was already tried, it failed. 

you need to try more persistently and thoroughly.

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Its up to the Ukrainians what they call it. They want to call it Kyiv. Get used to it.

it was decided not by Ukrainians, but by insane officials. everything will change, democracy will inevitably win. alas for you.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

it was decided not by Ukrainians, but by insane officials. everything will change, democracy will inevitably win. alas for you.

Yes Ukrainian officials. Nothing insane about them.

Is it now up to Czar Putin and his apologists to decide what other countries call their capitol?

 

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Santa said:

You'll try convincing us next about where the toilet is situated. 

Oh, almost forgot: I think the Challenger 2 and the latest russian, the Armata, have something like a toilet on bord.

Oh, and the Armata has different ammunition storage options, or better , it has a remote controlled turret with only an auto loader and amunition in it. The crew is sitting in front, in a special secure compartment. Google is your friend. Ok, could be .....!

[EdwardV]

27 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

the confrontation is between NATO and Russia

I’m pretty sure Ukraine would take exception to that statement. 
 

 

[Guest1]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes Ukrainian officials. Nothing insane about them.

Is it now up to Czar Putin and his apologists to decide what other countries call their capitol?

I hope, you are going to live that for Bangkok, too?

https://thethaiger.com/news/bangkok/bangkok-to-be-officially-named-krung-thep-maha-nakhon 

[Vigo]

11 hours ago, Thaidup said:

You sure about that?

The difference between the civilized world and savage brutes like Russia is that the truth comes out relatively quickly and there is a judicial process with criminal acts punished when western countries are involved. The Russians have a long history of intentional wrongdoing. The USA and coalition forces did not intentionally target non combatants, nor did they intentionally bomb non combatant civilian shelters and hospitals, nor did they engage in mass murder or rape. 

The Iraq  wrongdoings do not justify Russia's activities in the Ukraine, and that is your sole justification for  the Russian barbarism.

[Smithydog]

48 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

the confrontation is between NATO and Russia. CSTO does not participate. and the CSTO has not almost doubled in 20 years and has not participated in military operations in third countries.

I thought Russia invaded Ukraine, a non-NATO Country. Where are NATO troops "on the ground" in Ukraine? Where is your evidence of direct NATO involvement. It seems even President Putin does not consider NATO involved as his warning reported just yesterday infers: ‘Lightning-quick’ response if NATO intervenes in Ukraine: Putin. No mention of "because they ae involved" only "if".

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/27/lighting-quick-retaliation-if-nato-intervenes-in-ukraine-putin

CSTO has not doubled in size as even some old Soviet countries see the dangers in being involved with Russia. They formed the GUAM organisation to stay away. Perhaps they learnt the hard way as to what involvement with Russia only gets you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUAM_Organization_for_Democracy_and_Economic_Development

Are they now a threat too since they are in a different club?

Call it what you may, but Russia (a country) invaded Ukraine (another country). Not NATO and nor has NATO invaded Ukraine in this war or even Russia.

[Santa]

47 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

"You know zero about .... ", this kind of phrasing, with obviously absolutely no knowledge yourself,  why does seem that so familiar in this topic, star.. eh, santa?

12 years in the Royal Amoured Corp. 5 years working on research and development at AW/MVEE Kirkucdbright. I think I have a damn site more knowledge about tanks than most posters on this thread.

[Santa]

53 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

they have build the amunition chamber UNDER the turret, the crew is sitting on top.

No different to any other country's tanks. Please tell me where Challangers ammunition is stored? All tanks have their ammunition stored within the turret to allow ease of access for the loader.

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, Santa said:

12 years in the Royal Amoured Corp. 5 years working on research and development at AW/MVEE Kirkucdbright. I think I have a damn site more knowledge about tanks than most posters on this thread.

M1 Abrams - Wikipedia

The main gun's ammunition is stored in the rear section of the turret, with blast doors that open under power by sliding sideways only to remove a round for firing, then automatically close. Doctrine mandates that the ammunition door must be closed before arming the main gun.

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, Santa said:

12 years in the Royal Amoured Corp. 5 years working on research and development at AW/MVEE Kirkucdbright. I think I have a damn site more knowledge about tanks than most posters on this thread.

Leopard 2 - Wikipedia

 In the turret, the ammunition and the hydraulics are located in compartments separated from the crew. In case of a detonation, the blow-off panels on the compartment roofs will direct the explosion and fire away from the crew.

[EdwardV]

15 minutes ago, Santa said:

No different to any other country's tanks. Please tell me where Challangers ammunition is stored? All tanks have their ammunition stored within the turret to allow ease of access for the loader.

 

[Noble_Design]

10 hours ago, Dmitrii said:

Unfortunately, Europe depends on Russian oil and gas too much to stop buying it in the nearest future.

Good news is that it does not really need to stop buying it in order to deter Russian militaristic plans.

The rest of sanctions (embargo on exporting to Russia of a number of equipment, materials , and components needed for Russian industries) is enough to push Russia back 30 years in sense of technologies including military technologies.

Even now we see that Russian battle tanks and aircrafts while numerous are significantly outdated. The situation will progress in the same direction and in 10 years Russian economy (and army) will become weak enough to make Russia peaceful again.

The rule is simple: do not feed authoritarian countries too much, they become vile and aggressive when they feel themselves mighty. Keep them slim and a little hungry - it keeps them modest and peaceful.

Unfortunately, there is no quick and easy way to stop Russia's militaristic aggression without blowing our planet in a Nuclear War. The leaders of democratic countries should be prepared for the long process of the gradual isolation of the Russian economy and strangling Russia economically. It will take years but it is the only real way to stop Mordor.

I hope Russia's reign of terror will end soon though because Putin has most of Europe's balls in his hand and is squeezing them tighter every minute:

Russia to cut off gas buyers that don't pay in rubles, Kremlin says

https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/04/28/russia-to-cut-off-more-gas-buyers-that-dont-pay-in-rubles-kremlin-says/

 

[Fanta]

Where there is a will there is a way.

“Under the new payment system, the Kremlin has said importers would have to establish an account in dollars or euros at Russia’s third-largest bank, Gazprombank, then a second account in roubles. The importer would pay the gas bill in euros or dollars and direct the bank to exchange the money for rouble”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/27/russian-gas-crisis-5-things-to-know-about-europes-supply