News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[vlad]

23 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

What is going to give? NATO or Russia?  At this point the only thing is clear that NEITHER will give in at this time. 

   NATO now shipping more stand-off weapons, will lead to a massive increase in destruction of cities and civillians on both sides. Stand-off weapons can only be answered with stand-off wepaons when there is no interest in mass charges with high casualty rates. 

    The bigger picture is that a "risk" of a Nuclear war is not calculateable. The globalist bankers are pushing the "global warming" dogma with the argument that the consequences of ignoring it can entail the globel heating up. However, nobody seem to take the same view upon any nuclear conflict. 

    A nuclear war will be the end of the Human experiment. The psychopathic elite leaders may think it an acceptable outcome, but to the rest, it will be a scenario of misery unless anything we have ever experienced. 

  However, NATO seems to accept a "risk" of escalated conflict, because their strategic goal og crushing Russia is worth taking it. Their only answer to this view is to demonize anyone in opposition of such madness; to demonize anyone as "agents" or "sock puppets". 

    Here in North Norway there are more and more people who are starting to look at this as utter madness. The politicians are more and more avoiding a deeper talk about the conflict and even throwing the living standards of our people under the bus. As always, the anglo-americans have no other humanity than the desire to start a war far away from their own home. 

    Russias invasion of Ukraine is wrong, illegitimate and harmful to world stability. It is as wrong as the invasion of another country with an equivalent amount of people, where the pretext was of similar characther. 

   The invasion of Iraq in 2003 was done with overwhelming force and powr, but very little coverage of human suffering. The most notorious war crime there, murder of several journalists from the air by helicopter pilot slaughing over the entire ordeal only lead to the grossest persecution of a man in modern times. 

       At this time, does Zelensky have ANY ability to influence the larger picture? History would suggest a clear no. The military might is carried by the larger political will. Ukraine of today has no military resources left besides what they get sent from NATO. It is very unlikely that Zelensky could even send out a peace feeler that was not pre-screened by the larger Westenr apparatus and his existence would be at stake if he were to consider such a thing with a clear goal of saving lives.

     All the Western warmongers can do is demonize Russia and simpy ignore the reality that to Russia, this is existential. At the same time, they do not admit their own economic existential struggle that has led them this far. 

    The question one should ask now is, WHEN will the West realize that Russia does not issue rhetorical red lines? Does the geniuses in the West really still believe Kremlin is not willing to back up their statements? They are being foolish to the zillionth degree. 

   Russia Again Warns Any NATO Vehicle Entering Ukraine With Weapons Will Be Destroyed | ZeroHedge

let's be honest only 3 things have come out of Norway the women, Cross Country skiing there good at that, and they're good at hiding German pocket Battleships in Fjords. Has Norway ever helped in any conflicts ??  

[KRLMRX]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Accidents like Malaysian Airlines flight 17 for example?

Now Russia and Czar Putin STILL lie about this but you will see from the link that the investigation is complete (I know you like to wait for that) and the fact is Russian backed terrorists in the Donbass shot it down. 

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 - Wikipedia

it's not a fact, it's an opinion. and not everyone agrees

in your link:

Following release of the JIT report, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir said the JIT was making Russia a "scapegoat" and that he did not believe the Russians whom the JIT had charged were involved.

[vlad]

11 hours ago, Fanta said:

Russia has made a lot of payments towards  ownership of the skies. I don’t know the “scanning” range of these spy planes. NATO spy planes are on the Ukraine Polish border and over the Black Sea. I’m just saying that NATO & Russian spy planes and drones might enter off limits airspace because “accidents” happen and they might get shot down because “accidents” happen on both sides. 
https://www.ft.com/content/2c7340bc-3f45-4948-b878-2d1d490ab94b

You don't need a spy plane over Ukraine or Russia Haw Haw a satellite orbiting the Earth will zoom in close enough to what Putin's mistress is wearing.

[EdwardV]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Southwest corner. The Ukrainians are going to drive towards the Crimea. Its Czar Putins longest and weakest point regarding logistics and supply.

The Ukrainians are also driving southeast out of Kharkiv in the northern part of Russian occupied area. They drove the Russians back some 40km in the last few days. 

Ukrainians have been doing an able job over the last 24/48 hours of pushing the Russians further away, and they have managed to push the Russians out about 40 kilometers to the east of Kharkiv,” a senior Pentagon official told reporters on Monday.

Kyiv Redux? Ukraine Is Pushing Russia Back From the Strategic City of Kharkiv | The National Interest

 

[Vigo]

18 minutes ago, vlad said:

let's be honest only 3 things have come out of Norway the women, Cross Country skiing there good at that, and they're good at hiding German pocket Battleships in Fjords. Has Norway ever helped in any conflicts ??  

Norway is a small country located  in close proximity to some countries with a history of savagery and barbarism. I remind you that Norway was invaded and brutally occupied by Germany in WWII. Despite some collaborators, Norwegians resisted the Germanification and thousands paid the price. Subsequent to 1949, Norway has been an integral part of European defense and a reliable member of NATO, contributing to key  NATO deployments.Norway has been moving closer to the key %GDP target unlike  cheap countries Italy, Spain  and Canada. Norway has had one of the largest % expenditures in equipment of NATO members in recent years.  Norway's role has also been primary of providing mediation and conciliation services. It has been a key contributor to the peace process  around the world. Isn't ensuring peace and contributing to peace keeping better than making war?  And in respect to ongoing confict with Russia invasion of Ukraine, Norway has been very active co-ordinating with Baltics, Sweden and Finland to keep close eye on Russia activity. It is these nations working closely with Poland and Romania who are tracking the Russians and sharing intelligence. UK and USA are taking the heat, so that others who have better access can do their job without public watching.

[Vigo]

19 minutes ago, vlad said:

You don't need a spy plane over Ukraine or Russia Haw Haw a satellite orbiting the Earth will zoom in close enough to what Putin's mistress is wearing.

More important are intelligence assets on the ground and countries like Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia,  Slovakia, Romania, have good operations and contacts. Russians are hated in much of  former eastern europe and millions of  former occupied peoples are just itching to give payback to thug occupiers.

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Vigo said:

Norway is a small country located  in close proximity to some countries with a history of savagery and barbarism. I remind you that Norway was invaded and brutally occupied by Germany in WWII. Despite some collaborators, Norwegians resisted the Germanification and thousands paid the price. Subsequent to 1949, Norway has been an integral part of European defense and a reliable member of NATO, contributing to key  NATO deployments.Norway has been moving closer to the key %GDP target unlike  cheap countries Italy, Spain  and Canada. Norway has had one of the largest % expenditures in equipment of NATO members in recent years.  Norway's role has also been primary of providing mediation and conciliation services. It has been a key contributor to the peace process  around the world. Isn't ensuring peace and contributing to peace keeping better than making war?  And in respect to ongoing confict with Russia invasion of Ukraine, Norway has been very active co-ordinating with Baltics, Sweden and Finland to keep close eye on Russia activity. It is these nations working closely with Poland and Romania who are tracking the Russians and sharing intelligence. UK and USA are taking the heat, so that others who have better access can do their job without public watching.

Yes. Fair to say Norway pulls more than its own weight. Very small nation but important within NATO. Strategic for Energy & Atlantic Control. 

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Accidents like Malaysian Airlines flight 17 for example?

Now Russia and Czar Putin STILL lie about this but you will see from the link that the investigation is complete (I know you like to wait for that) and the fact is Russian backed terrorists in the Donbass shot it down. 

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 - Wikipedia

With Russian serial numbered equipment & named commanders & operators, tracked by Investigation coming in and out of Ukraine from Russia lands. 

[oldschooler]

20 hours ago, Fanta said:

You are assuming that Russia is losing. imo, a nuke is a defensive weapon or a necessary knockout blow. Russia is still far from those desperate times. Risk vs reward. Slog on in Ukraine or push the button and risk Moscow being rubble. No brainer there. 

Russian Army utterly incompetent so can’t win. They were pushed back 40 kms in Donbass last few days ( Pentagon). THATS why I’m concerned ! 

[oldschooler]

23 hours ago, EdwardV said:

The first question would be if the Russian military is willing to follow through? It's not a guarantee in any country, especially as an offensive strike instead of a defensive one. They know once that line is crossed, it might be suicide at worse, and standing in front of a military war crimes tribunal at best. Might be better to give Putin a 9mm headache instead.

Besides the fact Putin would have to explain to the country why Big old Russia was force to nuke a small little country. No more hiding the fact their vaunted military is inept, with the resulting loss of face. What will probably happen is every country who owns a nuclear reactor would start building a bomb. More advance countries could have a working one by the end of the year. The nuclear proliferation treaty is a voluntary agreement. You promise not to build a bomb in return for those who have them not using them. Depending on where they drop the bomb, the West would probably launch a massive strike against the Russian army logistics. Every bridge, weapons depot, rail junction and air base within the war zone (including those just inside Russia itself). Basically kill off the Russian army's ability to function. Last NATO would forward deploy into Ukraine. Set up a line running from east of Kyiv south to east of Odesa. The Ukrainian army would still function to the east of the line, just their safe zone would move much closer to the front. Of course if Russia actually is dumb enough to drop a bomb on a NATO country, all bets are off.  JMO

Hope the “ head bullet” option applied if Putin orders any tactical nuke strikes. 
Fully confident it would be for any insane Putin strategic nuke strike instructions.

[EdwardV]

In the "oh damn here we go again" column:

The Russian troops, facing stiff resistance from the Ukrainians, have suffered a major blow with Kremlin losing its most advanced T-90M Proryv-3 (Breakthrough-3) battle tank. An image of the mangled battle tank was posted on Twitter by a Kyiv-based media reporter. It shows the T-90M still smoldering from what appears to be a direct hit. Though the location is unclear, the tweet suggests it is somewhere within Ukraine’s northeastern Kharkiv Oblast. The post was shared by The Kyiv Independent’s defense reporter Illia Ponomarenko on Wednesday. According to a report by The Drive, the T-90M is the most technologically advanced and capable tank within Russia’s frontline military arsenal. The much-hyped T-90Ms were handed over to the Tamanskaya Motor Rifle Division, a unit of the Guard Tank Army deployed in the Western Region, only in April 2020. Recent estimates suggest that only 100 or so models are currently in service. And, the only better model is the T-14 Armata main battle tanks, which aren't yet ready for frontline combat. 

Russia Loses Its Most Advanced T-90M Tank In A Direct Hit At Kharkiv: Report (ibtimes.com)

To it's credit, it didn't do the usual jack in the box imitation most other Russian tanks so love to do. It's my understanding the "M" version has additional protection to keep that from happening.

The reason the T-14 Armata hasn't seen action is, well, basically they don't have any. To be fair, they don't have any production models. They do have about 20 pre-production prototypes that are still in testing. Seems they can't get it out of design, and reportedly they can't really afford them either. Seems they cost 4-5 times as much as a T-90M. Without foreign orders to drive down the cost, the few Russia would order will be very expensive. Which is probably another reason none have shown up in Ukraine, losing one would be bad for sales. It's "scheduled" to begin production in 2025, but the start date has already been pushed back a few times.  

 

[socal]

2 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Russian Army utterly incompetent so can’t win. They were pushed back 40 kms in Donbass last few days ( Pentagon). THATS why I’m concerned ! 

They weren't. Ukraine isn't winning anything. Egging them on in a war that they cant win is just cruel. Its hard to find a family in Russia who doesn't have extended family in Ukraine. Russia is going slow to try and kill as few ppl as possible. They are hoping to get traunches of Ukraine soldiers to surrender. And they've had mixed results.

Russia spends the same on military/PPP as the UK, France and Germany spend nominally combined. They are using 20% of their forces in this war. Do you think the UK , France and Germany combined could not beat Ukraine ? And you really think its due to incompetence ? Why did Russia win the Syria war then ? 

Russia's military spending is between 150 and 170 billion dollars.

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/commentary/2019/05/03/russian-defense-spending-is-much-larger-and-more-sustainable-than-it-seems/

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by socal

[socal]

Historically the financial markets are also a good indicator as to who is winning or losing a war. 

The Russian ruble has gained 20% against the dollar within a month.

Edited May 5, 2022 by socal

[EdwardV]

5 minutes ago, socal said:

The Russian ruble has gained 20% against the dollar within a month.

Completely meaningless because the Ruble is under capital controls. You can sell them and the trading in Forex is so thin as to be none existent. If you can't sell and there is no volume, it's not hard to manipulate it's value.  

[socal]

15 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Completely meaningless because the Ruble is under capital controls. You can sell them and the trading in Forex is so thin as to be none existent. If you can't sell and there is no volume, it's not hard to manipulate it's value.  

Not true. So what if Russia has capital controls now. China has capital controls on a permanent basis. And has since the 1970's. Just because foreigners cant speculate on it with leverage doesn't mean its not a legit rate.

Russia has the 6th biggest trade surplus in the world and no net debt. That's why the ccy is strong

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by socal

[EdwardV]

42 minutes ago, socal said:

Not true. So what if Russia has capital controls now. China has capital controls on a permanent basis. And has since the 1970's. Just because foreigners cant speculate on it with leverage doesn't mean its not a legit rate.

Yes China has capital controls too. However, the Chinese Yuan is pegged to the dollar, and it's only allowed to trade within a certain range. Since China doesn't allow it to float, doesn't allow it to trade, and it's pegged to the dollar, it works even though the controls exist. It's also not a storage of value to foreigners, so again it doesn't matter.  

It's not a legit rate because Russia is manipulating the value. If it's not allowed to float freely because you can't sell it, there is no way to know what it's true value is or isn't. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Completely meaningless because the Ruble is under capital controls. You can sell them and the trading in Forex is so thin as to be none existent. If you can't sell and there is no volume, it's not hard to manipulate it's value.  

If the gains  are meaningless then the previous losses are also meaningless? 

[Fanta]

Ukraine has launched a crowd funding platform. Ukraine is definitely winning one war - the social media war. Russia has lost their password for their MySpace page. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-05/ukraine-zelenskyy-launches-new-global-crowdfunding-platform/101042956

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

it's not a fact, it's an opinion. and not everyone agrees

in your link:

Following release of the JIT report, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir said the JIT was making Russia a "scapegoat" and that he did not believe the Russians whom the JIT had charged were involved.

And the Malaysian Prime Minister is an expert on accident investigations is he?

So if Russia did not shoot down the aircraft who did?

[EdwardV]

33 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If the gains  are meaningless then the previous losses are also meaningless? 

Well since those values were in the past, yes.
 

When the day comes it’s again allowed to float freely, it will do so from whatever value Russia has set it at that time. Keeping in mind it could drop like a rock at that point. I highly doubt that day will be anytime soon. 

[Fanta]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So if Russia did not shoot down the aircraft who did?

If you believe the story, and I do due to a lack of any other theory, Russia didn’t shoot down the plane, pro Russian separatists did. Regardless it was an accident and a tragic loss of life. No-one in their right mind targets, identifies and then shoots down a commercial airliner because it is passing by.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

 Some accidents need further investigation such as the March incident when a Romanian fighter jet crashed and the Romanian helicopter sent to search for it also had an unscheduled rapid disassembly. Both in Ukrainian air space. Western media is rather quiet about that apart from blaming it on bad weather.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/3/army-helicopter-fighter-jet-crash-in-romania-killing-all-crew

 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If you believe the story, and I do due to a lack of any other theory, Russia didn’t shoot down the plane, pro Russian separatists did. Regardless it was an accident and a tragic loss of life. No-one in their right mind targets, identifies and then shoots down a commercial airliner because it is passing by.

Using a gadfly missile system provided to the terrorists by Czar Putin.

[Fanta]

So was it an accident or a deliberate act? Using your logic Japan is responsible for every vehicle death to date involving a Toyota.

[Fanta]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

The Russian troops, facing stiff resistance from the Ukrainians, have suffered a major blow with Kremlin losing its most advanced T-90M Proryv-3 (Breakthrough-3) battle tank.

So only 99 more to go. I wonder how they will fare against the big artillery from the US making their way to the front? I imagine the Howitzers from the stingy Germans will just bounce off them. 
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-03/card/germany-steps-up-delivery-of-heavy-artillery-to-ukraine-wTK60Ggpb74yxfXV0MBy

.The Germans big tanks with the Brazilian ammo must be due to arrive any day now. 
 

[EdwardV]

Ukraine is making their list, Biden will check it twice. They are already telling the US some of the weapons they would like to get in the upcoming $33B package. First they want truck mounted Harpoon anti ship missiles to clear the Russian Navy out from the western Black Sea. Next they want long range drones. Read Predator and Reapers. Last they want HIMARS, long range rocket systems. 
 

I’m surprised a little with the harpoons since they have them from the UK. My first thought it they really don’t have many Neptune missiles after all. Maybe they need more harpoons or the US version is longer ranged? Unlike the UK, America does make a truck mounted version. The drones are clearly the next step up from the Turkish ones. The Reapers can carry much heavier weapons. As for the HIMARS, they want something with a lot of range to counter Russian artillery. Those rockets can reach out to 300km. I thought they were already getting some but I guess not. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna27406