News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[oldschooler]

36 minutes ago, Fanta said:

We don’t know anything about Russian or Ukrainian systems for reporting/not reporting mistreatment of POWs/non combatants. And they would be dealt with by the military not the court of public opinion. Anything else is specilation.

My bad? I want the fighting to stop. I am not a believer in the “Kill ‘em all. Let God sort ‘em out” crowd nor the “Fight to the death” crowd. Label me as you will. 

Let’s just assume such military reporting systems either don’t exist or never used (same result).

Putin (the Illegal Aggressor) can always unilaterally “ ceasefire” or “ stop the fighting” and see what Ukraine does. No one forced Putin to invade & fight offensively. STOP!

Your final paragraph simply makes no sense.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

I respond to your less absurd claims and ignore the fanatical ones. Shame on me?

Your claim of a system/culture implies the majority of the Russian Armed Forces are involved. The extent of alleged war crimes revealed to date simply don’t support that claim. We would be seeing hundreds of thousands of dead non combatants.

And give up their gains to date? That is as realistic as expecting Amber Heard to be a subservient housewife. 

Ongoing Denial of Reality not a good look

[Rookiescot]

The Ukraine has now received an undisclosed number of HIMARS launch systems with more on the way apparently.

These bad boys have a range of over 300 miles.

M142 HIMARS - Wikipedia

[Alavan]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Yes because Russia traded space for time, and were defending their home. I have a feeling you missed the irony. 

I have a feeling he is missing a lot more.

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

You first. Why hasn’t China condemned the invasion, agreed with sanctions against Russia, cut Russia off economically and rattled some sharpened chopsticks at them? Surely the bad karma from the West outweighs the benefits of dealing with Russia ??? 

Another question to answer a question. So predicable.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, CamPat said:

Sorry to interrupt. But this is the very last Celebrity, nobody less that the President of the Swiss (usually neutral but on the Russian Cash Side they just couldn't keep their hands off russian cash) National Assembly

Irene Kaethlin (a bit stormy in Kiev after that long train ride). She came to see some real blood !

Suggest you start a New Topic entitled 

“ celebrity - style leaders visiting Ukraine for Photo Ops making Political Capital from Dead People” .

Grateful if you might cease your unwelcome disruptive “ OK Magazine”  distractions on this (fairly) serious thread. 

[Rookiescot]

HIMARS with its 300 mile range means there is nowhere inside Russian held Ukraine that is safe from bombardment. Given the west is freely sharing intelligence with the Ukrainian armed forces the location of many high value targets are probably already known. Things like supply dumps. Field headquarters. Radar systems. Artillery. Communication nodes.  

Indeed that Russia to Crimea bridge probably has a limited lifespan 

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-vector/ukraine-map-vector-outline-scales-600w-1090007219.jpg

[Marble-eye]

 

'The Russian navy is supposed to be one of the most powerful navies in the world, well how has it lost 4 or 5 of its ships in a land battle to a country with very few ships?'

[Rookiescot]

If approved by Congress, the Biden administration believes the $33 billion will be spent over a five-month period, Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby said during an April 29 press briefing. That could give Ukraine’s military an enormous boost, equivalent to what countries like Italy and Australia spend on their military in a given year and about half of Russia’s 2021 defense spending, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. 

So essentially the Ukraine for the next 5 months has a defense budget the same as Russias. And it will only be used for weapons effective in a ground war not stuff like navies and nukes as Russias is. 

Soon the Ukrainian army will be far better equipped and motivated than Czar Putins gang of thieves, rapists and murderers.  

[Fanta]

9 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

'The Russian navy is supposed to be one of the most powerful navies in the world, well how has it lost 4 or 5 of its ships in a land battle to a country with very few ships?'

Russian losses - 1 cruiser, 1 landing ship and 2 patrol boats.

Ukraine - 1 navy 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ship_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet

[Smithydog]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Russia must surely now be removed from UN Security Council.

Veto Problem Solved.  

I like that the Ukraine representative is permitted to attend discussions about Ukraine. But as to removing Russia, I don't think it will achieve much. The symbolic move to suspend Russia from the UN Human Rights Council was a proper move in my opinion under the circumstances, but diplomatic discussions need to have an avenue.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/07/un-votes-to-remove-russia-from-human-rights-council.html

But It is hard one as really at the moment it has simply become a talkfest with the veto inhibiting the enshrined powers of the UN. In reforming the Security Council, removing the veto power from all would be my first preference and ensuring more equal representation across the globe and political influences would be the second.

It needs reforms in a variety areas from structure, through funding and even location. The veto is a scourge in my opinion for some of the bigger nations to effectively bully the others.

For example, I think Switzerland (often considered the world's most neutral country) may be a better host for the Assembly and Council. I also think that the European Union should not have the right to speak in the UN General Assembly, as this is unique when compared to say other blocs like the African or Arab Unions. To me the UN is for countries first and foremost. 

https://www.history.com/news/why-is-switzerland-a-neutral-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_observers

Somehow its power needs to be strengthened and better balanced. The Ukraine war is highlighting the deficiencies in its powers.

[Marble-eye]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Russian losses - 1 cruiser, 1 landing ship and 2 patrol boats.

Ukraine - 1 navy 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ship_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet

You deliberately missed the whole point of the post which was to show just how useless the Russians are, I know it upsets you when anyone says anything negative about Russia, so rather than exchange dialogue with yourself I shall go and find something more useful and interesting to do like stubbing my big toe on the free standing gas oven.

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

You deliberately missed the whole point of the post which was to show just how useless the Russians are, I

I didn’t miss it. Did you deliberately fail? Plenty more tugboats where those 4 came from. Check the Black Sea fleet Wikipedia page. You can do it!

9 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

I shall go and find something more useful and interesting to do like stubbing my big toe on the free standing gas oven.

Stands to reason as you appear to be a sucker for punishment.

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

I didn’t miss it. Did you deliberately fail? Plenty more tugboats where those 4 came from. Check the Black Sea fleet Wikipedia page. You can do it!

Stands to reason as you appear to be a sucker for punishment.

Everybody else is wrong but you, seriously you need to have a good look at yourself in the mirror, you are the one out of step.

Humourless as well, there is no hope.

[Fanta]

10 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Everybody else is wrong but you, seriously you need to have a good look at yourself in the mirror, you are the one out of step.

Humourless as well, there is no hope.

I am not in the Angry Dad’s Army so I don’t need to fall into line. Happy stubbing!  

[Marble-eye]

3 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I am not in the Angry Dad’s Army so I don’t need to fall into line. Happy stubbing!  

You are in Putins Red Army, rear echelon brigade, in charge of degrading the truth causing massive moral loss amongst members who actually care about the loss of life Putin is responsible for, but you just don't see reality.

[Chatogaster]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

You deliberately missed the whole point of the post which was to show just how useless the Russians are, I know it upsets you when anyone says anything negative about Russia, so rather than exchange dialogue with yourself I shall go and find something more useful and interesting to do like stubbing my big toe on the free standing gas oven.

What did you expect? Your post doesn't show that fact, it just tries to impose it as the thing to believe without bothering to provide substantiation. I like its sentiment/implied conclusion, but you shouldn't get upset if somebody replies and provides some substantiation which contradicts your claim (especially since you phrased it in the form of a question). As funny as your humoristic deflection to void/prevent counter-arguments may be, it carries no argumentative weight. Either defend your claim by providing additional facts, or acknowledge that it was factually wrong/misleading. I prefer the former but I suspect it's not trivial (you may need to sum & compare relative values+expenses and take default presences into account).

[Marble-eye]

4 minutes ago, Chatogaster said:

What did you expect? Your post doesn't show that fact, it just tries to impose it as the thing to believe without bothering to provide substantiation. I like its sentiment/implied conclusion, but you shouldn't get upset if somebody replies and provides some substantiation which contradicts your claim (especially since you phrased it in the form of a question). As funny as your humoristic deflection to void/prevent counter-arguments may be, it carries no argumentative weight. Either defend your claim by providing additional facts, or acknowledge that it was factually wrong/misleading. I prefer the former but I suspect it's not trivial (you may need to sum & compare relative values+expenses and take default presences into account).

Anything in particular that bothers you?

Are you speaking for other posters now with your very verbose post, but I have listened to your rant and quite frankly I am not interested and if my posts bother you so much I suggest you do the same!

Day after day of listening to the same drivel and excuses about Ukrainians getting slaughtered ones patience can become a little drawn, but hey you carry on and try to add something of value to the argument instead of attacking other posters, I will wait with baited breath.

[CamPat]

2 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Suggest you start a New Topic entitled 

“ celebrity - style leaders visiting Ukraine for Photo Ops making Political Capital from Dead People” .

Grateful if you might cease your unwelcome disruptive “ OK Magazine”  distractions on this (fairly) serious thread. 

Just because these info's don't match your picture of the War doesn't mean that you decide what everyone else here is interested as long as it is realted to the matter. I suggest that contributors on this forum take a look at The Duran which looks at the War from all sides which is not what the western media does in general. And no , they are not russian propaganda posters.

We all depend on information to make up our mind but the general western media is not delivering. Just my take.

[Smithydog]

25 minutes ago, CamPat said:

Just because these info's don't match your picture of the War doesn't mean that you decide what everyone else here is interested as long as it is realted to the matter. I suggest that contributors on this forum take a look at The Duran which looks at the War from all sides which is not what the western media does in general. And no , they are not russian propaganda posters.

We all depend on information to make up our mind but the general western media is not delivering. Just my take.

Many of us do read alternative sources but choose also to steer away from news sources that lack reliability, like The Duran.

For example.

 

“Overall, we rate The Duran as a Questionable source based on far-right-wing bias, promotion of Russian propaganda, right-wing conspiracies, a lack of transparency, use of poor sources, plagiarism, and failed fact checks.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-duran/

Pretty clear why I personally will chose not to follow your recommendation.

 

 

[Del_SoL]

About 500 billions usd of western actives on Russia territory in auditing for confiscation.

As answer of act of robbery from western thiefs.

Prepare for Golden Rouble.

 

 

[Benroon]

20 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Well since you asked, I’ll give you a clue, the culture than invented Modern Science , Medicine , Industry, Banking, Steam Power, Metal Ships, Submarines, Railways, Steels & Alloys, , Computers, Jet Engines, Motor Engines & Vehicles, Internet, Spacecraft, Tv, Radio, Radar, Satellites, Orbiting Telescopes, Nuclear Power, Electrical Power, Refrigeration, Air Conditioning, Aircraft, Democracy, Classical Music ; I could go on.

Or you could go with other cultures than invented Reggae, Tequila, Curry, Korans or Boomerang or useful Ancient stuff but never progressed. 

Of course I would always prefer to judge individuals based on merit not origin. 

I should apologise, I previously surmised you were upwards of 83 - reading that I need to recalibrate to possibly 10 ! So Maths - originated in Africa (black Egyptians) , earliest forms of art, step forward Africa, the first language system, guess what Africa, oh you mention medicine , hmmm I'm afraid those pesky black egyptians beat us to it, and without the Congolese you wouldn't have a mobile phone given they discovered and utilised Cobalt first, but I don't really want to have a 'xenophobic off' with you Alf as people like you can't be told.

Oh apart from a muslim who in 936 created a medicinal encyclopedia that the EUROPEANS used for 500 years after he died (and is credited for creating how to stitch humans up even today), the crankshaft, a pivotal mechanical invention in the modern world, errrr a muslim invented that, hang on also the earliest camera which then lead to how doctors performed surgery on eyes even today, another muslim. Small cheese but they invented the windmill too bringing prosperity to Europe! Did you know the NHS the 'free at the point of use' principle was first launched by the muslims ?

However climate is what gives the west a head start nothing else. There is no superior brain formation of anyone living in the west. Unless of course you think someone growing up in Somalia starts with an equal chance as someone born in Cambridge ?

Sorry I couldn't spot the answer to the question as to whether a 'lesser culture' doctor is acceptable to save your life when you've been rushed into A&E ? Or would you refuse his assistance on principle ? The great thing about people like you, coupled with the more enlightening attitude of the young more tolerant generally less xenophobic better educated people, is people like you will be gone within a couple of generations and the world will be a far better more tolerant place. Though you will be amongst friends here no doubt, xenophobes love a forum to anonymously relay their white supremacist bile.

You must be utterly aghast that the earliest forms of human were found in Africa ? (Broken Hill Skull) ie I'm afraid you're one of them ! Quick get a bath!

You have no idea how much better that has made me feel !

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Chatogaster said:

What did you expect? Your post doesn't show that fact, it just tries to impose it as the thing to believe without bothering to provide substantiation. I like its sentiment/implied conclusion, but you shouldn't get upset if somebody replies and provides some substantiation which contradicts your claim (especially since you phrased it in the form of a question). As funny as your humoristic deflection to void/prevent counter-arguments may be, it carries no argumentative weight. Either defend your claim by providing additional facts, or acknowledge that it was factually wrong/misleading. I prefer the former but I suspect it's not trivial (you may need to sum & compare relative values+expenses and take default presences into account).

This post is asinine and sophomoric. While we can ignore your passive aggressive attitude your incongruity is poignant. 

[KRLMRX]

6 hours ago, oldschooler said:

even named “ BLEDSEL”

 

6 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Once again; the Russian Army has had for 500 years a proven SYSTEMIC indiscriminate shelling, terror, rape, murder, pillage culture ( even named “ BLEDSEL”),from the very top, made worse under communist Cheka terror.

Do you deny the more well - known outcomes like Katyn Wood? Or the documented WW2 rape of millions of females ? Or Grozny & Aleppo ?

This  CLEAR Systemic Destruction befits a “ federation” of thieves, brigands, tyrants, murderers & terrorists. 

Such enlightened Russian culture of music, art ballet & literature never reached the 99% masses and is long gone. There was also never any faith in the decency of any Russian Institutions, always geared up for tyranny or destruction.

So cease your tiresome apologist ridiculous talk of “exceptions, rogue elements, all” in this matter.

this is not the first time you have used this word, but there is no such word in Russian, not in English.

the rest is a set of stamps.

it is certainly not for the representative of Britain to talk about massacres, here you can safely multiply the number of Russian victims by 10. And why 500 years? Before that, Russia did not kill en masse?

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

this is not the first time you have used this word, but there is no such word in Russian, not in English.

the rest is a set of stamps.

it is certainly not for the representative of Britain to talk about massacres, here you can safely multiply the number of Russian victims by 10. And why 500 years? Before that, Russia did not kill en masse?

Russian war crimes - Wikipedia

Thats pretty damning is it not?