News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes

[butterfly]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Absolutly brainwashed and sick in the brain as it is described in this video about you guys who talked about it is staged and titled "completly brainwashed"

Just sick

https://edition.cnn.com/

you seem to be very easily manipulated by the press. You are the perfect audience. Remember how the press was complicit during Iraq 1 and Iraq 2, and the Arab spring. We are food for the press.

[butterfly]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Here whats about the stunts it is staged

that makes a nice story for the evening news, but nothing concrete is being said here. Nice try.

[butterfly]

6 hours ago, Stardust said:

And has to do with the Ukraine what? Another brain gymnastic from you??!

I think the point he was making was that in wars, staging and blaming others for war crimes is quite common. It's actually part of the war playbook now.

Even the Russians staged such things in Chechenia, so they know bs when they see it

Edited April 4, 2022 by butterfly

[Stardust]

3 minutes ago, butterfly said:

you seem to be very easily manipulated by the press. You are the perfect audience. Remember how the press was complicit during Iraq 1 and Iraq 2, and the Arab spring. We are food for the press.

The stunts, sick brain gymnastics and what aboutism doesn't work anymore. You guys are standing naked on the podium and identified as completly brainwashed. This fact that is worldwide realized but you still not realizing it that you are naked already. And this old stunt with the western media becomes realy boring! Talking always same old text even when they put you already the pants down.

[oldschooler]

11 hours ago, butterfly said:

Russia war effort in WW2 was essential, and without Russia, the allies would have lost the war against Hitler, and the Normandy invasion wouldn't have happened

and without the Allies, Russia couldn't have reach Berlin

Russia was 60% of the effort and took 80% of the war casualties hence why they believe they "own" the war

in the west, the Allies think that their late "arrival" when Hitler was starting to collapse with the Russian invasion was "sufficient" to win the war, that's debatable

But Russia effort and sacrifice was the biggest one and in that sense they "own" the victory

strangely, in France, the French Resistance think they also own the victory, and so did DeGaulle 

Some fair points for once but how on EARTH would Axis have even reached let alone conquered USA or UK or AUS or IND or CAN Homelands??? IMPOSSIBLE ! Allied Navy / Air Power Far Too Strong
UK Destroyed German Navy & Reduced Luftwaffe
UK Brains / USA Production/ USSR Blood with Allied Geography an UNBEATABLE Combination ; even if Germany had beaten USSR AND  Normandy Landings Failed. 

USA had Atom Bomb June 1945. END. Berlin Original Target switched to Japan. 

West does NOT think their European Liberation alone “ won the war”. 
West recognizes & grateful for Russian MASSIVE ( Human Wave) Contribution.

West simply disappointed & annoyed Russia completely ignores West MASSIVE but Different / Essential Contribution!!

Russian Human Waves Alone ( USSR ONLY Strategy) Clearly would NOT have beaten Germany. 

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Some fair points for once but how on EARTH would Axis have even reached let alone conquered USA or UK or AUS or IND or CAN Homelands??? IMPOSSIBLE ! Allied Navy / Air Power Far Too Strong
UK Destroyed German Navy & Reduced Luftwaffe
UK Brains / USA Production/ USSR Blood with Allied Geography an UNBEATABLE Combination ; even if Germany had beaten USSR AND  Normandy Landings Failed. 

USA had Atom Bomb June 1945. END. Berlin Original Target switched to Japan. 

West does NOT think their European Liberation alone “ won the war”. 
West recognizes & grateful for Russian MASSIVE ( Human Wave) Contribution.

West simply disappointed & annoyed Russia completely ignores West MASSIVE but Different / Essential Contribution!!

Russian Human Waves Alone ( USSR ONLY Strategy) Clearly would NOT have beaten Germany. 

But getting back to Ukraine and the present day, not 75 years ago,  as you usually say...........

[butterfly]

2 minutes ago, Stardust said:

The stunts, sick brain gymnastics and what aboutism doesn't work anymore. You guys are standing naked on the podium and identified as completly brainwashed. This fact that is worldwide realized but you still not realizing it that you are naked already. And this old stunt with the western media becomes realy boring! Talking always same old text even when they put you already the pants down.

I find it ironic that someone being manipulated calling others "being brainwashed" simply because we want to know the "underlying" truth and not the "TV staged" truth.

Tribunals for such grave accusations are not on TV.

those poor civilians deserve a full independent investigation, not some TV ops. Because if it was "staged", then that's really the "sick brain gymnastics" including for those that fell for it. It's disgusting.

[Stardust]

2 minutes ago, butterfly said:

I find it ironic that someone being manipulated calling others "being brainwashed" simply because we want to know the "underlying" truth and not the "TV staged" truth.

Tribunals for such grave accusations are not on TV.

those poor civilians deserve a full independent investigation, not some TV ops. Because if it was "staged", then that's really the "sick brain gymnastics" including for those that fell for it. It's disgusting.

The completly brainwashed want to explain others about manipulation. Good joke

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, butterfly said:

I find it ironic that someone being manipulated calling others "being brainwashed" simply because we want to know the "underlying" truth and not the "TV staged" truth.

Tribunals for such grave accusations are not on TV.

those poor civilians deserve a full independent investigation, not some TV ops. Because if it was "staged", then that's really the "sick brain gymnastics" including for those that fell for it. It's disgusting.

Try listening to the real Experts speaking directly to us “on TV” ! And writing direct articles online. NATO Country former Commanders, Intelligence Operators & Analysts, Defence Ministers, Defence Institutes. 
Catch up with them on You Tube.

If you really search for Truth . Start with These People ! Agree the TV “ talking heads” presenters & correspondents can be largely ignored.

[PBS]

12 minutes ago, butterfly said:

if there was such a massacre of civilians, we would get a lot of more pictures and overseas journalists reporting them, they are still a few of them right now on the war zone. Yet, nada.

same with the mass grave? where are the pictures with all the bodies? so far, a stage scene with a few body bags. I guess they need more times to fill in the mass grave, a few more days, and it should be ready for the photo ops.

That's why an international investigator needs to be there ASAP, but I have a feeling the Ukraine local authorities will not let that happen.

Media has only recently gained access to the area with mass garves; it is claimed so far approx 140 bodies have been accessed. Media has been able to see civilians bound and shot in the back of the head and so on. Members with obvious anti Western MSM bias, IMO, should hold back with insulting the Ukarian people with comments such as "I guess they need more times to fill in the mass grave".

Personally I do not concur with members posting denegrating comment on Ukranian victims, without any proof whatsoever which is in breach of forum rules.

For the meantime...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-04/ukraine-latest-satellite-mass-grave-bucha-kyiv-peace-talks/100963202

 

[butterfly]

9 minutes ago, PBS said:

Personally I do not concur with members posting denegrating comment on Ukranian victims, without any proof whatsoever which is in breach of forum rules.

and likewise, TV news is not evidence of a war crime and yet that doesn't stop some members from calling one.

Edited April 4, 2022 by butterfly

[butterfly]

11 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Catch up with them on You Tube.

I did, and some of them are being very "prudent" with those "photo ops" because they know it can swing both ways. The purpose of the "staged scenes" is to create an emotional reaction, not to find the truth of what happened.

[butterfly]

17 minutes ago, vlad said:

Atrocities have been committed by Russian forces with civillian hands tied behind there backs,

we do not know that yet for sure, that's the problem. What really happened is what we should ask ourselves. Not react conclusively to a staged photo op.

[vlad]

10 minutes ago, butterfly said:

I know I don't want to see "staged" scenes like we have been seeing too many times on TV over the last 20 years. But the truth is less "flashy" and prone to "photo ops" so we don't get to see it on the news.

If there was any dead kids massacre, you can be sure the local authorities would use those pics everywhere. Yet, nada. It's a plant story. I can smell bs when I see it, simply because I smelled plenty of it in the past.

You guys are rose smelling virgins 

Reported.

[butterfly]

1 minute ago, vlad said:

Reported.

classic when losing an argument, wouldn't be your first time 

[PBS]

2 minutes ago, butterfly said:

and likewise, TV news is not evidence of a war crime and that doesn't stop some members from calling it.

At the very least you should be providing credible  link/s to support your claims. I am sure majority of members are totally over members insulting the Ukranian people with unforgiveable conspiracy allegations e.g. from your post...

"I guess they need more times to fill in the mass grave"

[butterfly]

6 minutes ago, PBS said:

At the very least you should be providing credible  link/s to support your claims.

where is your credible link to support that there was a war crime by the Russian army? that's right, there isn't. You don't know. You are only reacting.

Because this just happened. There is no credible link for anything, for now, it's all gut feeling reactions.

My gut tells me it's staged, and yes I can be wrong on that. Likewise, you guys can be wrong.

Let's wait for a credible investigation.

Edited April 4, 2022 by butterfly

[butterfly]

9 minutes ago, PBS said:

"I guess they need more times to fill in the mass grave"

wouldn't be the first time that happens, so I am wondering how far they will go

[Stardust]

13 minutes ago, butterfly said:

where is your credible link to support that there was a war crime by the Russian army? that's right, there isn't. You don't know. You are only reacting.

Because this just happened. There is no credible link for anything, for now, it's all gut feeling reactions.

My gut tells me it's staged, and yes I can be wrong on that. Likewise, you guys can be wrong.

Let's wait for a credible investigation.

You not even understand that there are survivors and Ukrainian citizens are in Ukraine and watched it. And in towns there are neighbours, relatives .of the deads. You really want to explain others about manipulatiin but are not able to think or realities on planet earth?! Really?!

[butterfly]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You not even understand that there are survivors and Ukrainian citizens are in Ukraine and watched it. And in towns there are neighbours, relatives .of the deads. You really want to explain others about manipulatiin but are not able to think or realities on planet earth?! Really?!

I only believe in real evidence, let's have an international forensic team on the ground to investigate. It's the only way.

[Smithydog]

Enough

The sheer lack of sensitivity being shown by some members towards people who have died, just to support alternating claims of responsibility in a war situation, is obnoxious, sickening and beneath what is considered to be any form of civil behaviour.

Take this as a final warning. Sanctions will apply if you continue on this path in the future.

Topic has been locked for future comment due to the sheer disgusting and insensitive opinion stating by some members on both sides.

Moderator