News Forum - UKRAINE UPDATES: Russia relents, Ukraine offers concessions at Turkey peace talks; Amnesty decries Russian war crimes

[oldschooler]

On 3/30/2022 at 4:11 PM, Fanta said:

I wonder if Amnesty International will also investigate the alleged kneecapping of Russian soldiers by Ukrainians? BBC covered it in their Fact Check so I wonder why this hasn’t been mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-russia-pow-video/

AI concerned only with “ prisoners of conscience” people persecuted for expressing their beliefs so no interest in any practitioners of violence, good or bad.

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Funny, I post a relevant post, you find it weak, and if I explain it’s irrelevant.

Explanations don’t make Relevance.

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Adults though. and their culture with lack of education gives most of them no chance to become other than thieves & serious criminals. to fit in & survive.foxes in the henhouse in the west. Criminal holiday camp. if they could somehow be separated from their culture re-educated would be different but too late for that as adults. 

So if you want to separate them from the lower elements of their culture and educate them then where better than western countries?

[Fester]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Then why not stay on the Pub forum if out of your depth here …or create Lightweight sub forum perhaps….

If you read all of my posts you might relax a bit - you need to.

[Fester]

On 3/30/2022 at 4:01 PM, CamPat said:

Buddhist teaching tell us that Nothing is forever. Hopefully we will see an end to the Ukraine Conflict soon. While i have my doubts we may see a completely different enviroment after the US Election in 2024. That will possibly put everything of this conflict upside down over night.

NATO would rethink U.S. relationship if Trump wins in 2024

https://www.yahoo.com/news/romney-nato-would-rethink-us-relationship-if-trump-wins-in-2024-204421714.html

While Biden was preaching a change from relentless wars to relentless diplomacy during his first speech at the UN Assembly what we now experience is a Proxy War with Europe in the Frontline and the US reaping in the Weapon Orders. That is what we've seen with Trump when he demonstrated his Saudi Orders for US Weapons next to murderous Mohammed bin Salman. The future will tell us what the "Future War with China - North Korea" might look like.

 

If you want to listen to Romney that's up to you but his slanted opinions are rather off topic here.

[Fester]

11 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

2024 ? US Elections Irrelevant in Geopolitcs. Let’s take it month by month shall we? 2024 might bring CCP Invasion of Taiwan. No Important country is Buddhist.

Bearing in mind where most of us here live and how important this religion is in this part of the world, I think that last comment is rather disrespectful. 

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

Putin is a total liar and cannot be trusted as proven, talks would be total useless as all it would do is give the Russians time to re-arm then renege on the talks. The Russians cannot be seen to have gained anything by this heinous crime.

Just keep on pushing the Russians out of Ukraine, Putin has been totally humiliated and he needs his nose rubbing in it now. 

The future of Europe lies on Zelensky and his brave warriors shoulders, he fails, we all fail.

“…..lies on NATO “ actually, while Russia remains under Tyranny. 
Ukraine retrained & rearmed by NATO last 8 years since Crimea.

Ukraine defending homeland. 
NATO defends Europe…. in Ukraine..

NATO set a Giant Bear Trap in Ukraine ….. which Putin stepped into…. Putin Ego ensures No Escape & Ruination of Russia. All Planned.

Ukraine would always need to fight a Russian Invasion (with NATO help). Now’s a good time…..Ukraine fully prepared…not ready to fight Russia over Crimea in 2014.

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, Fanta said:

So the Nazis should have investigated their own war crimes?

Using that apologist thinking there would be no POWs because all captured soldiers would be executed in the spot. That’s why the Geneva convention exists to protect civilians and non combatants (aka POWs).

Tyrannies have never adhered to Geneva Convention. So when caught in breach, payment in kind owed. Unwritten code. In war, Justice is often swift at the sharp end……

[EdwardV]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

So Ukraine is the cannon fodder for NATO’s plan to bleed Russia dry? I’m sure news of that plan will go down well with the Ukrainians next election time. And how brave of many people to back this plan by saying that Ukraine should fight to the death especially when they’re 1000’s of kms away fondling their keyboards. Zelenskyy must sue for peace. All the best wishes and hero worship in the world won’t stop the shells falling. 

You are looking at it like Ukrainians are not choosing to fight, like they are being thrown to the wolfs. It's the opposite, they are asking for weapons, not a ride out of town. Russia has chosen war, not NATO and certainly not Ukraine. Excuse the Ukrainians for wanting to defend their homes and families. 

Why must Zelenskyy sue for peace? Why not Putin? 

[oldschooler]

15 minutes ago, Fester said:

Bearing in mind where most of us here live and how important this religion is in this part of the world, I think that last comment is rather disrespectful. 

Believing any Buddhist country or Buddhism is important on the world stage or is applicable to this topic is a rather strange delusion ….Reality has Nothing to do with “disrespect” , except of course to the perpetually offended folk…

[oldschooler]

27 minutes ago, Fester said:

If you want to listen to Romney that's up to you but his slanted opinions are rather off topic here.

So is any continued talk of “US Elections” & participants which has zero relevance to Ukraine.

[oldschooler]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:12 PM, Convert54 said:

While such accusation  may be true  it is also as possible that "recorded" hearsay events are not as  described. 

What is important  above all is that such accusation on both side be  noted and in hopefully the atmosphere of  reconcilliated political rationale  truth is at least established if possible.

Only  then can  humanity once again declare  some small but pathetic false acclaim to demonstrable "animal " sophistication".

Pompous Gibberish…..not one word of sense. Translation Software malfunction perhaps ? Must try harder if you wish to assign false equivalence to “both sides”. 

[Fester]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Believing any Buddhist country or Buddhism is important on the world stage or is applicable to this topic is a rather strange delusion ….Reality has Nothing to do with “disrespect” , except of course to the perpetually offended folk…

You stated "No Important country is Buddhist". If, as you infer, that Buddhism is not important and non applicable to this topic, then why did you mention it in the first place?  

[oldschooler]

On 3/30/2022 at 9:01 PM, Stardust said:

The hacks from Anonymous are in the net and in many news outlets around the world

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60784526

I could fill it up with links, so what he is shown there is already documented! 

By the way it was from cnn to all famous news outlets the hack of the ministries

Please explain reliable source while I read from this posters permant stories with out any source. And give evidence that this officer from the Ukrainian National Guard and his chanel is not reliable source including the claims about the hacked documents what are out from Anonymous and accessable in the net and confirmed from news outlets.

Cant we just cut the Gordian Knot here and re-confirm that all tyrannies lie with disinformation constantly & nothing they say has any value ?

Unless some reputable Western source is reporting this & it’s similarly corroborated,can’t we just dismiss it & cease being distracted by Tyrants from more important issues ?

[oldschooler]

8 minutes ago, Fester said:

You stated "No Important country is Buddhist". If, as you infer, that Buddhism is not important and non applicable to this topic, then why did you mention it in the first place?  

I didn’t. Convert opened his lengthy original post with it. Then said I was “disrespectful “ when questioning relevance. 

[Fanta]

5 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Why must Zelenskyy sue for peace? Why not Putin? 

You have taken my reply out of context. I was replying to a comment claiming that Russia had fallen into a NATO and Ukraine trap hence the cannon fodder comment. And suing for a negotiated peace is not a surrender. Don’t confuse the two or associate a negotiated peace with a lack of  fighting spirit. 

To answer your question of why Zelenskyy wants a negotiated peace - the risk/damage is not worth the reward.  Ukrainian cities are being leveled, the economy has ground to a halt, damage is being done on a daily basis, Ukrainian soldiers and citizens are dying, 10 million people displaced - the list goes on and on. And for what? Not why. For what goal?  2 regions that have been a thorn in Ukraine side for years? Crimea that was lost 7 years ago? NATO membership that Ukraine will not get? National pride? And there are benefits for Ukraine that will last far beyond any possible victory against the Russians could bring. They are some of the reasons why I think a negotiated peace is in Ukraine’s best interests. The “baying for Putin blood” and “fight to the death” crowd can’t or won’t see that. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. I assume your “why not Putin” question was rhetorical but I will ask you a rhetorical question as an answer. Suppose the Russians are defeated and withdraw, what will Putin do next? Sit at home and lick his wounds? Or come back, bigger and harder?

[Fester]

17 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I didn’t. Convert opened his lengthy original post with it. Then said I was “disrespectful “ when questioning relevance. 

It was CamPat actually but he did not associate Buddhism as a measure of the importance of nations.

[Fester]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You have taken my reply out of context. I was replying to a comment claiming that Russia had fallen into a NATO and Ukraine trap hence the cannon fodder comment. And suing for a negotiated peace is not a surrender. Don’t confuse the two or associate a negotiated peace with a lack of  fighting spirit. 

To answer your question of why Zelenskyy wants a negotiated peace - the risk/damage is not worth the reward.  Ukrainian cities are being leveled, the economy has ground to a halt, damage is being done on a daily basis, Ukrainian soldiers and citizens are dying, 10 million people displaced - the list goes on and on. And for what? Not why. For what goal?  2 regions that have been a thorn in Ukraine side for years? Crimea that was lost 7 years ago? NATO membership that Ukraine will not get? National pride? And there are benefits for Ukraine that will last far beyond any possible victory against the Russians could bring. They are some of the reasons why I think a negotiated peace is in Ukraine’s best interests. The “baying for Putin blood” and “fight to the death” crowd can’t or won’t see that. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. I assume your “why not Putin” question was rhetorical but I will ask you a rhetorical question as an answer. Suppose the Russians are defeated and withdraw, what will Putin do next? Sit at home and lick his wounds? Or come back, bigger and harder?

After enough of the Russian people get to know the truth of this, he'll probably be too busy worrying about his own butt to try again. 

[oldschooler]

13 minutes ago, Fester said:

It was CamPat actually but he did not associate Buddhism as a measure of the importance of nations.

Point is it’s irrelevant here.

[Fester]

13 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Point is it’s irrelevant here.

Yus, master. 

[oldschooler]

10 minutes ago, Fester said:

After enough of the Russian people get to know the truth of this, he'll probably be too busy worrying about his own butt to try again. 

No Peace Possible until Russia weakened significantly so they can’t “ come back” at all.
 

NATO don’t want Putin to Quit until he’s simply unable to go on. That’s the NATO Plan. Support Ukraine from afar so Ukraine & NATO Sanctions Bleeds Out Russia away from NATO.
 

Ukraine accept this Deal as there’s no escape for them being at least WRECKED in any scenario from Russian Invasion and without NATO they would fall to Putins Regime Change ( Control) Prime Objective then be Neutralized / Demilitarized too. And still Wrecked.
Game Set Match to Russia.

Best way for Ukraine is what’s happening now…..believe it or not. 

[oldschooler]

Just now, Fester said:

Yus, master. 

Right so now perhaps we can return to relevant points 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

I assume your “why not Putin” question was rhetorical but I will ask you a rhetorical question as an answer. Suppose the Russians are defeated and withdraw, what will Putin do next? Sit at home and lick his wounds? Or come back, bigger and harder?

Yes of course it was rhetorical, but I will respond in kind of why Putin should sue for peace:  The risk/damage is not worth the reward. His army has reached it's culmination point, they lack the resources and/or will to advance further. They are being slowly ground into a bloody, wreck strewn mess. His economy is being destroyed from the worse sanctions in world history (with more to follow), and if it lasts any longer it will take 20-30 years minimum to recover. With Russia's terminal demographics, that's pretty much a death sentence. Russia can't archive their stated objective of conquering Ukraine and absorbing them into Russia proper with their current force levels. It's now outside their reach. There is no need to bleed out the Russian army to a level it can't recover. For what? To own Ukraine? That was never the real objective, so it's better to cut losses now. 

That said, I don't think Putin will or can withdraw or sue for peace. To do so would result in him slipping in the shower and falling on some bullets. Honestly I think he ups the ante. He will order a mobilization of the Russian army reserves and attempt to grind Ukraine into dust. Of course throwing raw recruits into a war they don't want to fight with an increasing level of obsolete weapons will vastly increase Russian casualties (but that's never really bothered Russia). How he sells that to the Russian population probably isn't as hard as it would be somewhere else but it still won't be easy. Never the less, it might be enough to win a general war. A full blown raging insurgency is a different matter, but then Russia knows how to do that too. That of course will have bled out the Russian army so completely they will never again be a threat to NATO. Sucks if you are Ukraine, but they have no intention of letting it happen and they might just win. Just my opinion. 

 

[Stardust]

28 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Yes of course it was rhetorical, but I will respond in kind of why Putin should sue for peace:  The risk/damage is not worth the reward. His army has reached it's culmination point, they lack the resources and/or will to advance further. They are being slowly ground into a bloody, wreck strewn mess. His economy is being destroyed from the worse sanctions in world history (with more to follow), and if it lasts any longer it will take 20-30 years minimum to recover. With Russia's terminal demographics, that's pretty much a death sentence. Russia can't archive their stated objective of conquering Ukraine and absorbing them into Russia proper with their current force levels. It's now outside their reach. There is no need to bleed out the Russian army to a level it can't recover. For what? To own Ukraine? That was never the real objective, so it's better to cut losses now. 

That said, I don't think Putin will or can withdraw or sue for peace. To do so would result in him slipping in the shower and falling on some bullets. Honestly I think he ups the ante. He will order a mobilization of the Russian army reserves and attempt to grind Ukraine into dust. Of course throwing raw recruits into a war they don't want to fight with an increasing level of obsolete weapons will vastly increase Russian casualties (but that's never really bothered Russia). How he sells that to the Russian population probably isn't as hard as it would be somewhere else but it still won't be easy. Never the less, it might be enough to win a general war. A full blown raging insurgency is a different matter, but then Russia knows how to do that too. That of course will have bled out the Russian army so completely they will never again be a threat to NATO. Sucks if you are Ukraine, but they have no intention of letting it happen and they might just win. Just my opinion. 

The losses from the Russians are extremly high not only on dead soldiers also in equipment, they could not stand to any single tiny country in Europe anymore, too weak

 

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So if you want to separate them from the lower elements of their culture and educate them then where better than western countries?

Too late as adults & they will simply join Russian crime gangs in west.