News Forum - Should Foreigners Still Come To Retire In Thailand?

[LoongFred]

  On 3/9/2022 at 8:24 AM, Faz said:

It's a funny old world, as one stone is hidden, another is uncovered 

London used to issue both the Non Imm O ME Visa based on Thai spouse and the Non Imm O based on retirement until late 2014. The USA also never offered the Non Imm O based on retirement.

Then came the 'online' application service, first in China, followed by France, the UK, the USA and Canada.
This is a standard 'online' application system offering the same Visa types to nationals of those Countries.
With it, back came the single entry Non O Visa based on retirement as an option, but away went the Non Imm O ME Visa based on Thai spouse, which is now only available as a single entry.

The Non Imm O Visa based on retirement therefore became available either for the first time or available once again for those intending to retire in Thailand.
Australia for example do not yet use the 'online' system (I believe Spain is next) so unfortunately for their nationals intending to retire in Thailand, the Non Imm O-A Visa is currently the only available option.

As already mentioned, the way to skirt that and avoid the mandatory Health Insurance requirement is to enter either VE or TV, apply for a change in Immigration status from Tourist to Non Immigrant at your local Immigration office (Non O), then apply for further 1 year extensions of stay without any Insurance requirements.

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Correction: I received my original Non O retirement visa in the US.  The financial requirements for renewal were met by a letter from the Consulate or Embassy. When Thai immigration asked for verification these letters were stopped. Therefore a letter from a Thai bank verifying funds became the new requirement for most.

As far as Non OA and Non O visa required different things. For Non OA funds could  be in your home bank and some were able to stay 2 years by timing the renewals. There were no insurance requirement and some chose to return home every two years and  return. Of course insurance requirements and covid travel restrictions .

[dj230]

After being in Thailand for about half a year and having plans to relocate here, I'm starting to question whether this would be a sustainable place to retire in 10-20 years. I usually plan ahead and from what I see Bangkok is not too different than Toronto, I wouldn't be surprised to see the prices of everything in Bangkok go up significantly in 10-20 years to something similar to a price in Toronto or another big city. 

Bangkok is looking less and less like a place for short term visitors / retiree's and more like a place for expats / digital nomads which means everything will get more expensive since expats /digital nomads have more money. 

If the nightlife stays closed + new visa's are a success, I can see a lot more expats / digital nomads relocating here.  

[Faz]

  On 3/9/2022 at 9:21 AM, LoongFred said:

Correction: I received my original Non O retirement visa in the US. 

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They were once available as in the UK, then ceased until the 'online' system was introduced based on retirement. I also received a Non Imm O based on retirement in the UK before they were withdrawn.

  On 3/9/2022 at 9:21 AM, LoongFred said:

The financial requirements for renewal were met by a letter from the Consulate or Embassy. When Thai immigration asked for verification these letters were stopped. Therefore a letter from a Thai bank verifying funds became the new requirement for most.

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Already explained Fred if you've read my replies.
Only applied to those using the 'income' or 'combination'  method.

  On 3/9/2022 at 9:21 AM, LoongFred said:

As far as Non OA and Non O visa required different things. For Non OA funds could  be in your home bank and some were able to stay 2 years by timing the renewals. There were no insurance requirement and some chose to return home every two years and  return. Of course insurance requirements and covid travel restrictions .

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Again already explained and how it's changed since.

[Faz]

  On 3/9/2022 at 9:39 AM, dj230 said:

If the nightlife stays closed + new visa's are a success, I can see a lot more expats / digital nomads relocating here.  

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Only the cost of the Visas has been mentioned.

Wait for the rest of the requirements to be confirmed. I doubt it will attract more than a handful of takers.

[dj230]

  On 3/9/2022 at 9:52 AM, Faz said:

Only the cost of the Visas has been mentioned.

Wait for the rest of the requirements to be confirmed. I doubt it will attract more than a handful of takers.

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With the current rising costs of living in bigger countries, I would say it would be quite attractive to those looking to save money and retire young, most people that work online can do so anywhere in the world, unless they have obligations to stay where they are, it would save people a lot of money. I found almost no differences living in Bangkok versus Toronto in terms of technology/infrastructure, in most cases it's actually been better.

[JamesR]

  On 3/9/2022 at 1:05 AM, Marc26 said:

If someone is used to a downtown lifestyle I don't think they would feel stuck BKK

I've lived downtown almost my whole life

I'd be perfectly happy to live in Bangkok  it's what I'm used to

And when we build a house in Thailand, I will still spend plenty of time in BKK

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There was a song from an American singer, Uptown Girl and the song mentioned a Downtown Guy.

What is the meaning of 'downtown', is it a poorer part of a city?

In the UK (North) we say we are going shopping downtown which means in the city centre. 

[JamesR]

  On 3/9/2022 at 5:43 AM, Faz said:

If your Non O-A Visa is still valid (1 year validity) then leaving the Country and re-entering wouldn't make any difference as you'd simply be granted a further 1 year permission of stay on re-entry, subject to the Insurance expiry date.

If your original Non Imm O-A Visa has expired and you've now extended your permission of stay at Immigration (a temporary permit to stay , not a Visa), then if you exit without a re-entry permit, any permitted stay is immediately cancelled on exit.
You can then re-enter VE or TV and apply to change your status to Non Immigrant (Non O), then apply for further extensions of stay based on Non O, which has no mandatory Health Insurance attached.

Indeed I know a few expats who intended to do exactly that, when Covid became a pandemic and local borders closed. I expect when some normalities resume, they will endeavour to change to a Non O.

At Thai Embassies, Non Imm O-A Visa are issued purely on the single basis and purpose of retirement.
Non Imm O Visas can be applied for (where available) for the purpose of retirement, Thai spouse/family, voluntary work, medical etc.

Note that if your original Visa was Non O-A type, but you apply to extend your stay based on Thai spouse/family, then the mandatory Health Insurance is non applicable.
It purely applies to those who entered on a Non Imm O-A Visa and apply to extend your temporary stay based on section 2.22 (retirement) of Immigration orders. It is not applicable when applying under section 2.18, Thai spouse/family.

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Am I missing something or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Why wouldn't a foreigner in Thailand need/want health insurance.

I was in Thailand for seven months in 2020 and I was sick, the hospital bill came to £4000 and my insurance paid for it, hospitals in Thailand are not free to foreigners are they?

What about serious health issues lasting months, treatment can't be free?

The above are questions and not criticism. 

[Marc26]

  On 3/9/2022 at 8:27 PM, JamesR said:

There was a song from an American singer, Uptown Girl and the song mentioned a Downtown Guy.

What is the meaning of 'downtown', is it a poorer part of a city?

In the UK (North) we say we are going shopping downtown which means in the city centre. 

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Yes downtown is the city center 

As for the song

Billy Joel

Uptown Manhattan is more glamorous than downtown 

Downtown, back then, was more working class

But downtown, when used, just means the city center

I guess I would say I've always lived in urban areas

Where you can walk everywhere

That's my lifestyle 

Walking by the grocery store every night and picking up what I need

Walking to the bar/dinner

Walking to dog park 

[Marc26]

  On 3/9/2022 at 8:42 PM, JamesR said:

Am I missing something or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Why wouldn't a foreigner in Thailand need/want health insurance.

I was in Thailand for seven months in 2020 and I was sick, the hospital bill came to £4000 and my insurance paid for it, hospitals in Thailand are not free to foreigners are they?

What about serious health issues lasting months, treatment can't be free?

The above are questions and not criticism. 

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A lot of guys feel it's worth the risk to go without and just pay if something happens

I never feel comfortable without insurance 

[Raugh]

  On 3/7/2022 at 12:06 PM, Soidog said:

Sorry if I touched a nerve with my post!

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Appreciate that. Sorry I snapped at you. Yes it has been a long standing issue for me personally of what to do with time in a foreign land where I don't really want to become involved outside of just living and trying to find some happiness.

[Soidog]

  On 3/11/2022 at 5:23 AM, Raugh said:

Appreciate that. Sorry I snapped at you. Yes it has been a long standing issue for me personally of what to do with time in a foreign land where I don't really want to become involved outside of just living and trying to find some happiness.

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Thanks and no worries. To be fair, I think being retired for some people can create difficulties you never imagined, even in your own country. The main thing is the focus you seem to have, which is finding happiness. I once read a quote which said something like - “There is only one real objective in life and that is the pursuit of happiness”. Certainly made me think. Almost all we do as humans is based on the desire for happiness. 

[LoongFred]

  On 3/9/2022 at 8:42 PM, JamesR said:

Am I missing something or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Why wouldn't a foreigner in Thailand need/want health insurance.

I was in Thailand for seven months in 2020 and I was sick, the hospital bill came to £4000 and my insurance paid for it, hospitals in Thailand are not free to foreigners are they?

What about serious health issues lasting months, treatment can't be free?

The above are questions and not criticism. 

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You lucky that you weren't in the US your bill would be much higher, probably $50,000 + . Care in Thailand is very good an very inexpensive. 

[ExpatPattaya]

  On 3/6/2022 at 9:19 AM, JustAnotherExpat said:

Being referred to as a "dirty farang" or a "f***ing farang" while the cost of staying here rises gets me thinking.

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It is all in the attitude IMO.  Yes, there will always be a few Thais who have this attitude.

For me, it is still better than back in the USA would come across worse treatment by fellow Americans for being a liberal or hippy or environmentalist by the rednecks/Trump worshipers abundant there.

[Marc26]

  On 3/11/2022 at 6:41 AM, ExpatPattaya said:

It is all in the attitude IMO.  Yes, there will always be a few Thais who have this attitude.

For me, it is still better than back in the USA would come across worse treatment by fellow Americans for being a liberal or hippy or environmentalist by the rednecks/Trump worshipers abundant there.

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Are you having arguments with strangers over politics that it gets to name calling?

A) I am just about the most confrontational person I know

B) I am pretty liberal and hate all things Trump(and Republican)

But I'm never in a situation where I am arguing with strangers 

I was just in Florida last week

When I would say I live in Canada they would all want to talk about Trudeau because Fox News told them to

I'd sort of make fun of them but in a joking sort of manner 

And they'd just slink away

But I'm not out there getting into arguments 

[Soidog]

  On 3/9/2022 at 8:42 PM, JamesR said:

Am I missing something or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Why wouldn't a foreigner in Thailand need/want health insurance.

I was in Thailand for seven months in 2020 and I was sick, the hospital bill came to £4000 and my insurance paid for it, hospitals in Thailand are not free to foreigners are they?

What about serious health issues lasting months, treatment can't be free?

The above are questions and not criticism. 

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You raise some interesting questions James. As you rightly say, treatment isn’t free unless you are Thai and even then it’s only free (“30 baht”) in “Government” hospitals. If you want to go to many of the high quality and excellent private hospitals, then costs are high. It’s also interesting when people from various countries discuss this topic. To you or I, £4,000 for hospital treatment is a cost we can never envisage. To an American for example, this is normal and hence they are use to making sure they have good quality health insurance. Many Brits travel on holiday simply hoping nothing bad will happen to them on their 2 week holiday. Utter madness in my opinion and if anything, you are more likely to end up with a sickness or accident while on holiday. 
 

The real problems occur as you get older. I can still get annual health cover for a reasonable cost. As you get in your 60’s,70’s, the costs quickly increase. Americans are accustomed to setting aside a chunk of their monthly income to buy health insurance (In fact it’s one reason why some equivalent jobs seem to pay higher in the US).  Asking someone from the UK to set aside £500-£1,000 a month for health insurance is incomprehensible. 

[JustAnotherExpat]

  On 3/11/2022 at 6:41 AM, ExpatPattaya said:

It is all in the attitude IMO.  Yes, there will always be a few Thais who have this attitude.

For me, it is still better than back in the USA would come across worse treatment by fellow Americans for being a liberal or hippy or environmentalist by the rednecks/Trump worshipers abundant there.

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Second time I post this - It was the Health Minister Anutin who made these VERY public statements. Most Thais I know are really nice folks, but the government openly berates us and wishes we would just hand over our money then go away.

[Poolie]

  On 3/11/2022 at 8:04 AM, JustAnotherExpat said:

Second time I post this - It was the Health Minister Anutin who made these VERY public statements. Most Thais I know are really nice folks, but the government openly berates us and wishes we would just hand over our money then go away.

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Berated. Past tense. Two years ago. Time to move on, or if it still affects you, seek treatment or abandon all ideas of coming to Thailand. He'll still be here.

[LoongFred]

  On 3/11/2022 at 7:27 AM, Marc26 said:

Are you having arguments with strangers over politics that it gets to name calling?

A) I am just about the most confrontational person I know

B) I am pretty liberal and hate all things Trump(and Republican)

But I'm never in a situation where I am arguing with strangers 

I was just in Florida last week

When I would say I live in Canada they would all want to talk about Trudeau because Fox News told them to

I'd sort of make fun of them but in a joking sort of manner 

And they'd just slink away

But I'm not out there getting into arguments 

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The conservative people are stating to fight back. They're tired of the get up close and in your face preached by some democrats. They are also tired of the cancel culture and preaching from the left. America is very divided today. Yesterday the liberals were leading but the other side has woken up to their aggressiveness. Just look at Portland and the left leaning big cities that had riots and burning while so called seeking social justice. Most American want personal responsibility to rule the day, and not rely on state hand outs. 

Thais I know also value independence  and self reliance.

[LoongFred]

Back on subject. Should foreigners visit Thailand. My answer is not now,because covid is still high and most Thais are concerned that foreigners might bring more. This is probably true but foreigners are less likely to follow precautions set by Thai health authorities. 

With unstable world conditions?, covid, hyper inflation, and air travel routing problems. It's best to stay away. It's not Thailand’s fault that everywhere stacks up against travel.

[LoongFred]

  On 3/11/2022 at 9:29 AM, LoongFred said:

The conservative people are stating to fight back. They're tired of the get up close and in your face preached by some democrats. They are also tired of the cancel culture and preaching from the left. America is very divided today. Yesterday the liberals were leading but the other side has woken up to their aggressiveness. Just look at Portland and the left leaning big cities that had riots and burning while so called seeking social justice. Most American want personal responsibility to rule the day, and not rely on state hand outs. 

Thais I know also value independence  and self reliance.

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It was not long ago that conservatives were openly criticized but the left and most said nothing. It was called the silent majority. It's good that people are no longer cowed and speak up. However, in don't seem most conservative people getting in others faces or stocking them in restaurants as was the case with liberal leaning people before. 

[Soidog]

  On 3/11/2022 at 11:28 AM, LoongFred said:

Back on subject. Should foreigners visit Thailand.

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No wonder you have a high opinion of the Thai government. Seems you have similar levels of IQ.
 

The subject Fred that you want to get back on, is “Should foreigners still come TO RETIRE in Thailand

How can foreigners “bring more Covid”? Thailand is utterly riddled with the virus. Bring more Covid

Was it foreigners who were cavorting around in Thong Lor drug & sex dens that caused the last major outbreaks? Was it foreigners who allowed millions to move around the country spreding the virus last Songkran and looking likely to do it again?  I don’t mind people with differing opinions, in fact I respect them. What I can’t respect is someone who hides behind the anonymity of the internet and simply aims at upsetting people. 

[LoongFred]

  On 3/11/2022 at 11:42 AM, Soidog said:

No wonder you have a high opinion of the Thai government. Seems you have similar levels of IQ.
 

The subject Fred that you want to get back on, is “Should foreigners still come TO RETIRE in Thailand

How can foreigners “bring more Covid”? Thailand is utterly riddled with the virus. Bring more Covid

Was it foreigners who were cavorting around in Thong Lor drug & sex dens that caused the last major outbreaks? Was it foreigners who allowed millions to move around the country spreding the virus last Songkran and looking likely to do it again?  I don’t mind people with differing opinions, in fact I respect them. What I can’t respect is someone who hides behind the anonymity of the internet and simply aims at upsetting people. 

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I though you agreed to ignore my comments. Are you stocking me? Your comments reflect you intelligence or lack of. As I said before we don’t like each other, so we should leave at that.

[Marc26]

  On 3/11/2022 at 7:31 AM, Soidog said:

You raise some interesting questions James. As you rightly say, treatment isn’t free unless you are Thai and even then it’s only free (“30 baht”) in “Government” hospitals. If you want to go to many of the high quality and excellent private hospitals, then costs are high. It’s also interesting when people from various countries discuss this topic. To you or I, £4,000 for hospital treatment is a cost we can never envisage. To an American for example, this is normal and hence they are use to making sure they have good quality health insurance. Many Brits travel on holiday simply hoping nothing bad will happen to them on their 2 week holiday. Utter madness in my opinion and if anything, you are more likely to end up with a sickness or accident while on holiday. 
 

The real problems occur as you get older. I can still get annual health cover for a reasonable cost. As you get in your 60’s,70’s, the costs quickly increase. Americans are accustomed to setting aside a chunk of their monthly income to buy health insurance (In fact it’s one reason why some equivalent jobs seem to pay higher in the US).  Asking someone from the UK to set aside £500-£1,000 a month for health insurance is incomprehensible. 

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There are so many misconceptions in this thread

A) Most Americans., the vast majority, would never be faced with a 4k hospital bill. 90% of Americans have health insurance. So a 4k bill is not "normal"

B) As for setting aside a chunk of monthly income........Yes, 54% of people with employee health care would pay a monthly sum

But those people in the UK(and Canada) are paying it in form of much higher taxes. Sales tax, higher income tax and I believe they pay an insurance tax?

So the net outcome is both are paying it, just in different ways

[Soidog]

  On 3/11/2022 at 2:02 PM, LoongFred said:

I though you agreed to ignore my comments. Are you stocking me? Your comments reflect you intelligence or lack of. As I said before we don’t like each other, so we should leave at that.

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Fred. Pack this nonsense in will you. You are the one who posted against me having said you would ignore me. You are the one assigning childish “sad” to all my posts. Give it a rest for everyone’s sake. Especially your own. Grow up or sober up. Ideally both. 

[Soidog]

  On 3/11/2022 at 2:42 PM, Marc26 said:

There are so many misconceptions in this thread

A) Most Americans., the vast majority, would never be faced with a 4k hospital bill. 90% of Americans have health insurance. So a 4k bill is not "normal"

B) As for setting aside a chunk of monthly income........Yes, 54% of people with employee health care would pay a monthly sum

But those people in the UK(and Canada) are paying it in form of much higher taxes. Sales tax, higher income tax and I believe they pay an insurance tax?

So the net outcome is both are paying it, just in different ways

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Yes agree with all that Marc. I wasn’t suggesting uk health care is free. It is however predictable and doesn’t get more expensive with age, in fact it gets cheaper. 
 

My comment about the £4k bill was to counter the nonsense from the Thai apologist on the forum who claims Thai medical care is cheap compared to the US. I don’t believe it is cheap. It’s certainly not relatively cheap. You would expect Thailand to be cheaper. Employment and running costs for a hospital are cheaper and I would imagine insurance is also a lot cheaper. You’ll note I also said it was the norm for Americans to have health insurance.