News Forum - Should Foreigners Still Come To Retire In Thailand?

[JamesR]

17 hours ago, Soidog said:

Where did I call you names Fred? I’m sorry to question your intelligence, but I’m not sure what else you wanted me to conclude. I simply pointed out as a FACT that visa extension rules could be changed at anytime. You interpreted that FACT as me “Stoking fires and starting rumours” I’m sorry if I offended you. I was actually apologising for highlighting a FACT you struggled to understand. I’ll take more care next time when I reply to you. 

You said,"I’ll take more care next time when I reply to you. "

My suggestion is don't bother as your reply will be twisted, things added which you didn't even write and then sulked over by our good mutual friend.

[Thaidup]

Thailand has been great for me.

I would strongly recommend retirement in Thailand if you are sensible about your lifestyle, you can live comfortably on a basic pension(I don't recommend that).

If you want to live around the girly areas, than you will have problems (no brainer)

I managed to retire at 48 years old, and have no formal education or wealthy upbringing.

I feel like I have a family here that will take care of me if I need it.

So it all basically depends on what you want from Thailand, If you just want to monger about, you will get back the same from the locals (same in any country?)

Being stuck in a condo in BKK, Pattaya or Phuket will end up making you wished you never came here,(in my opinion) unless you have a lot of money and can afford to live a holiday lifestyle.

Thailand is amazing.

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Thailand has been great for me.

I would strongly recommend retirement in Thailand if you are sensible about your lifestyle, you can live comfortably on a basic pension(I don't recommend that).

If you want to live around the girly areas, than you will have problems (no brainer)

I managed to retire at 48 years old, and have no formal education or wealthy upbringing.

I feel like I have a family here that will take care of me if I need it.

So it all basically depends on what you want from Thailand, If you just want to monger about, you will get back the same from the locals (same in any country?)

Being stuck in a condo in BKK, Pattaya or Phuket will end up making you wished you never came here,(in my opinion) unless you have a lot of money and can afford to live a holiday lifestyle.

Thailand is amazing.

If someone is used to a downtown lifestyle I don't think they would feel stuck BKK

 

I've lived downtown almost my whole life

I'd be perfectly happy to live in Bangkok  it's what I'm used to

 

And when we build a house in Thailand, I will still spend plenty of time in BKK

[LoongFred]

I think if someone want to know what it's like to retire in Thailand, they need to ask those who actually have made it work. Comments from those who visit for short times or 6 months of the year may be interesting, but give a distorted picture of actually living here. This is especially true of those that are here during the cool season and are coming to escape the cold of winter at home. Those of us that live here full time have different challenges and rewarding benefits. Each of Thailands season bring different joys and challenges to overcome. For instance we are entering the hot/dry season where mid-day activities are limited. I get up much earlier to take advantage of the morning cool and generally take an afternoon nap. Thai new years Songkran is celebrated during the hot season and is very enjoyable even if you aren't into splashing water. Loykraton is at the end of the rainy season and features parades and cultural activities. At my home we even celebrate July 4th because  our Thai family likes a good time. If someone is only here part time they miss out.

Living here in retirement requires retirees to develop a life style and housing that meets their full time needs. If in the country transportation is important, having household appliances you need are also givens. Most of all is learning to speak Thai to be able to interact with your neighbors. Some retirees only want to live around other falangs (falang gettos) shop in falang markets. Many of these are unhappy because they know they don’t fit in. Take what the say with a grain of salt. The list goes on and on.

Many people are very happy living in Thailand, but it takes one to adopt to the country and people. If you only want things your way, Thailand probably won't be good.

Þake to those who have done it, and avoid the good timers who only come for a good time.

Sorry for being so verbose, but books have been written on this.

[Soidog]

7 hours ago, JamesR said:

The question was about foreigners retiring to Thailand, you and I pointed out a few relevant facts as every country in the world has it pros and cons but as usual if anyone mentions anything seen as negative relating to Thailand we are treated with distain by the usual suspects on this forum. (But they do make me laugh).

It may be they realise what we are saying is correct and they wish to bury their heads in the sand.

Thailand has it pros and cons so it is best to know the cons as well as the pros.

I would disagree with one thing you said, "The ability for an older man to attract a younger woman. Some find that the only positive. "

I am not sure if your said it tongue in cheek as it is difficult to tell in a posting.

As far as I can see most Thai women marry Thai men, the age of Thai couples are normally roughly the same, you do not see very young Thai women married to very old Thai men as you do with SOME Thai-farang marriages.

Those setups are generally financial without the farang seeming to recognise the fact and are usually associated with women from Isaan on the whole.

In general Thailand is great as long as we have an exit strategy in case things change dramatically that being financially, politically or relating to serious health matters. 

I will repeat my main point, we are allowed annual visa extensions, the rules can change anytime, we are temporary 'retirees' with no rights of permanency, and what happens when we get past 75 and can no longer get health insurance?

 

Yes totally agree with all of that. As you rightly say, the question was about retiring to Thailand, as such it’s important to highlight the pros and cons. Most people looking to retire here have most likely been to Thailand many times on holiday. As a result, they will know many of the Pros but have a distorted “holiday” view of life here. Most likely never had to think about visas and 90 day reporting etc. Like you, my post was to highlight some of those cons to help people arrive at a more balanced view. As you also rightly say, for some people that seems to trigger an assault and draws all manner of spins and twists to what you actually posted. 
 

The reality is that everyone living/retired here know what their life is actually like. In their quiet moments they can see what they have and don’t have. For the majority, the balance is that they have more than they have lost. However, they are sensitive to those things they have lost and simply don’t want it highlighting. Demands to “focus on the positives” is a classic comeback and an assumption that by highlighting negatives, you are a negative person. The killer blow of course is when you point out that another big negative; such as changes to health insurance, could apply at any time. That really is red rag to a bull moment for these guys who may have no escape route and who’s lives could be turned upside down in the stroke of a pen from the Thai PM. 
 

As for the comment I made about older men being able to attract younger women. Yes, what you describe is largely true (though not always from Issan).  However, for many, having the ability to have a relationship with a girl 20-40 years your junior is a big attraction and what they experienced on holiday. 

[LoongFred]

14 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes totally agree with all of that. As you rightly say, the question was about retiring to Thailand, as such it’s important to highlight the pros and cons. Most people looking to retire here have most likely been to Thailand many times on holiday. As a result, they will know many of the Pros but have a distorted “holiday” view of life here. Most likely never had to think about visas and 90 day reporting etc. Like you, my post was to highlight some of those cons to help people arrive at a more balanced view. As you also rightly say, for some people that seems to trigger an assault and draws all manner of spins and twists to what you actually posted. 
 

The reality is that everyone living/retired here know what their life is actually like. In their quiet moments they can see what they have and don’t have. For the majority, the balance is that they have more than they have lost. However, they are sensitive to those things they have lost and simply don’t want it highlighting. Demands to “focus on the positives” is a classic comeback and an assumption that by highlighting negatives, you are a negative person. The killer blow of course is when you point out that another big negative; such as changes to health insurance, could apply at any time. That really is red rag to a bull moment for these guys who may have no escape route and who’s lives could be turned upside down in the stroke of a pen from the Thai PM. 
 

As for the comment I made about older men being able to attract younger women. Yes, what you describe is largely true (though not always from Issan).  However, for many, having the ability to have a relationship with a girl 20-40 years your junior is a big attraction and what they experienced on holiday. 

Your mandatory insurance thing is only in your head. Such talk only supports the insurance agents but is currently just pure speculation designed to upset some. I have insurance but don't use it because a doctor's visit is only 600 baht and care is great. An overnight in the hospital also doesn't break the bank so I'm not interested in all the paperwork the insurance company wants. If I had a major issue, I'd use insurance but minor things there is no need. Stop the scare tactics because it's unlikely.

 

[Faz]

15 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Your mandatory insurance thing is only in your head. Such talk only supports the insurance agents but is currently just pure speculation designed to upset some.

No, I'm afraid that is a fact Fred.

Many Thai Embassies no longer offer the Non O Visa for the purpose of 'retirement'.
They only offer the Non Imm O-A Visa which has a mandatory Health Insurance requirement of 3M BHT.
https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/oalongstay/

 

2.10 Additional health insurance requirement for Non-Immigrant O-A / O-X (Long Stay)

• Effective from 1 October 2021, the applicant must be insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:
  – Health insurance must cover Covid-19 disease with the total sum insured of no less than 3,000,000 THB or $100,000 per policy year

The applicants must submit the following:

• Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:
  (a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the insurance policy document;
  (b) In case of a Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit the insurance policy document. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org
• Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed, and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate
• Form. Please contact  your insurance company since this Foreign Insurance Certificate is mandatory.

When you enter on a Non Imm O-A Visa and subsequently apply to extend your 'temporary' stay in Thailand for 1 year, this 3M mandatory Health Insurance is applied retrospectively and also a requirement.
548-2562 (2019) change clause 2.22 327-2557 O-A Ins ENG-THAi.pdf 

As each year passes, the policies become more expensive based on age.

 

 

 

[Soidog]

45 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Your mandatory insurance thing is only in your head. Such talk only supports the insurance agents but is currently just pure speculation designed to upset some. I have insurance but don't use it because a doctor's visit is only 600 baht and care is great. An overnight in the hospital also doesn't break the bank so I'm not interested in all the paperwork the insurance company wants. If I had a major issue, I'd use insurance but minor things there is no need. Stop the scare tactics because it's unlikely.

How is mandatory insurance only in my head? If you are here on a Non-OA its already a reality. Should the Thai Goverment ever decide (as they did recently with OA) to apply the requirement to Non-O, then that is a potential downside you need to prepare for and factor in to your decision to “retire” in Thailand. All these are FACTS. For those people here on Non-O they are simply hoping and possibly praying that it never happens. You have no say or influence towards this decision and it could happen. Let’s hope it never does

 

Of course, for many, the only option then is to arrange it through “an agent”. In other words, use Thailands famed corruption to buy your way out of the problem. Something I’m sure you would never do Fred! 

[Soidog]

17 minutes ago, Faz said:

No, I'm afraid that is a fact Fred.

Many Thai Embassies no longer offer the Non O Visa for the purpose of 'retirement'.
They only offer the Non Imm O-A Visa which has a mandatory Health Insurance requirement of 3M BHT.
https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/oalongstay/

2.10 Additional health insurance requirement for Non-Immigrant O-A / O-X (Long Stay)

• Effective from 1 October 2021, the applicant must be insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:
  – Health insurance must cover Covid-19 disease with the total sum insured of no less than 3,000,000 THB or $100,000 per policy year

The applicants must submit the following:

• Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:
  (a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the insurance policy document;
  (b) In case of a Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit the insurance policy document. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org
• Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed, and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate
• Form. Please contact  your insurance company since this Foreign Insurance Certificate is mandatory.

When you enter on a Non Imm O-A Visa and subsequently apply to extend your 'temporary' stay in Thailand for 1 year, this 3M mandatory Health Insurance is applied retrospectively and also a requirement.
548-2562 (2019) change clause 2.22 327-2557 O-A Ins ENG-THAi.pdf 2.31 MB · 0 downloads  

As each year passes, the policies become more expensive based on age.

Thanks @Faz  So @LoongFred are we done with this ping pong of silliness on this topic? I’m not making anything up. I’m not stoking fires and I’m certainly not encouraging insurance companies. It’s clear that you were unaware of this requirement and the many thousands affected by it. You could be next

[Soidog]

20 minutes ago, Faz said:

When you enter on a Non Imm O-A Visa and subsequently apply to extend your 'temporary' stay in Thailand for 1 year, this 3M mandatory Health Insurance is applied retrospectively and also a requirement.

Do you know Faz if the option for those who got the NonOA in their own country and who are now caught in the insurance trap can do the following:  Leave the country and allow your retirement extension to lapse. Come back in on a 60 day tourist. Change that to a Non-O at Thai immigration and then extend on the basis of retirement? 

[Guest1]

On 3/6/2022 at 11:21 PM, Raugh said:

What did you do to piss them off?

That were public quotes of some politicians, not only but prominent in march 2020, I think

[Guest1]

On 3/7/2022 at 3:25 PM, Soidog said:

Yea I agree. That’s why I would never work in Thailand (even helping out taking a few drinks to a table) without a proper work permit.  

Some even tell there wife, that is the reason they can't use a broom: no working visa, no workpermit, also a job usually restricted to thai nationals ....

Works, doesn't it?

[Faz]

7 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Do you know Faz if the option for those who got the NonOA in their own country and who are now caught in the insurance trap can do the following:  Leave the country and allow your retirement extension to lapse. Come back in on a 60 day tourist. Change that to a Non-O at Thai immigration and then extend on the basis of retirement? 

If your Non O-A Visa is still valid (1 year validity) then leaving the Country and re-entering wouldn't make any difference as you'd simply be granted a further 1 year permission of stay on re-entry, subject to the Insurance expiry date.

If your original Non Imm O-A Visa has expired and you've now extended your permission of stay at Immigration (a temporary permit to stay , not a Visa), then if you exit without a re-entry permit, any permitted stay is immediately cancelled on exit.
You can then re-enter VE or TV and apply to change your status to Non Immigrant (Non O), then apply for further extensions of stay based on Non O, which has no mandatory Health Insurance attached.

Indeed I know a few expats who intended to do exactly that, when Covid became a pandemic and local borders closed. I expect when some normalities resume, they will endeavour to change to a Non O.

At Thai Embassies, Non Imm O-A Visa are issued purely on the single basis and purpose of retirement.
Non Imm O Visas can be applied for (where available) for the purpose of retirement, Thai spouse/family, voluntary work, medical etc.

Note that if your original Visa was Non O-A type, but you apply to extend your stay based on Thai spouse/family, then the mandatory Health Insurance is non applicable.
It purely applies to those who entered on a Non Imm O-A Visa and apply to extend your temporary stay based on section 2.22 (retirement) of Immigration orders. It is not applicable when applying under section 2.18, Thai spouse/family.

[LoongFred]

42 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Thanks @Faz  So @LoongFred are we done with this ping pong of silliness on this topic? I’m not making anything up. I’m not stoking fires and I’m certainly not encouraging insurance companies. It’s clear that you were unaware of this requirement and the many thousands affected by it. You could be next

OK your correct that embassies in your home countries will only offer Non OA visa for retirement. However, if you apply elsewhere or in Thailand they are available. (,Non O retirement. The advice has been to come to Thailand on a tourist visa and apply for a Non O for retirement in country. This is what has worked for many.

Why do posters like to talk about possible insurance requirements unless they're acting in behalf of the insurance companies? 

I'll ask the IO when I do my extension, but I don't see it on the horizon.  

Of  course there is now a requirement for tourist visa and insurance must be extended to get an extension. Also, tourist coming in via border runs will have to get insurance plus the 300 baht entry fee. At least that's my assumption.

This could affect those that come in on tourist visa who want to extend and stay 6 months,  I assume. 

[Soidog]

24 minutes ago, Faz said:

If your Non O-A Visa is still valid (1 year validity) then leaving the Country and re-entering wouldn't make any difference as you'd simply be granted a further 1 year permission of stay on re-entry, subject to the Insurance expiry date.

If your original Non Imm O-A Visa has expired and you've now extended your permission of stay at Immigration (a temporary permit to stay , not a Visa), then if you exit without a re-entry permit, any permitted stay is immediately cancelled on exit.
You can then re-enter VE or TV and apply to change your status to Non Immigrant (Non O), then apply for further extensions of stay based on Non O, which has no mandatory Health Insurance attached.

Indeed I know a few expats who intended to do exactly that, when Covid became a pandemic and local borders closed. I expect when some normalities resume, they will endeavour to change to a Non O.

At Thai Embassies, Non Imm O-A Visa are issued purely on the single basis and purpose of retirement.
Non Imm O Visas can be applied for (where available) for the purpose of retirement, Thai spouse/family, voluntary work, medical etc.

Note that if your original Visa was Non O-A type, but you apply to extend your stay based on Thai spouse/family, then the mandatory Health Insurance is non applicable.
It purely applies to those who entered on a Non Imm O-A Visa and apply to extend your temporary stay based on section 2.22 (retirement) of Immigration orders. It is not applicable when applying under section 2.18, Thai spouse/family.

Thanks Faz. As ever, fantastic support and clarity

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

OK your correct that embassies in your home countries will only offer Non OA visa for retirement. However, if you apply elsewhere or in Thailand they are available. (,Non O retirement. The advice has been to come to Thailand on a tourist visa and apply for a Non O for retirement in country. This is what has worked for many.

Why do posters like to talk about possible insurance requirements unless they're acting in behalf of the insurance companies? 

I'll ask the IO when I do my extension, but I don't see it on the horizon.  

Of  course there is now a requirement for tourist visa and insurance must be extended to get an extension. Also, tourist coming in via border runs will have to get insurance plus the 300 baht entry fee. At least that's my assumption.

This could affect those that come in on tourist visa who want to extend and stay 6 months,  I assume. 

The only insurance requirement for TV or VE is due to Covid 19. That will be removed as a requirement in the coming months. 
 

Please don’t waste your time asking at your IO. They won’t know about any change until the change happens. For now, the rules around insurance are as Faz explained. For the final time I will state this:

The requirement to have insurance for a Non-OA could be applied to Non-O at any time of the governments choosing. Unless you have a Thai family or a Thai spouse, you need health insurance now with a Non-OA and could require it for a Non-O in the future. 

[longwood50]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:11 PM, ken said:

actually the mandatory insurance for retirement visa most likely could not solve the problem allegedly the policy aimed to avoid default of huge medical/hospital fees incurred by foreigners

The entire premise of foreigners not paying huge unpaid medical bills is a falsity. 
The governments own figures put that amount at 448 million baht for all unpaid medical bills.  Even assuming that all of those were foreigners whether tourist or living here, that amounts to only 11.78 baht per tourist.  The government is already charging each tourist 300 baht that would in a normal year generate 11.4 BILLION baht.  So either use some of that to compensate the hospitals or raisse the fee to 315 baht and use the extra 15 baht to "solve the problem"  

Making each tourist get insurance and requiring each expatriate to get redundant insurance is just a windfall for the insurance companies.  

Thailand as a whole welcomed 38 million -- more than double the figure for 2010. The Public Health Ministry said unpaid bills at hospitals across the nation came to 448 million baht in a year through September 2019.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Asia-Insight/Tourism-proves-hazardous-to-Thai-hospitals-financial-health

[Faz]

23 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Why do posters like to talk about possible insurance requirements unless they're acting in behalf of the insurance companies? 

Many members ask questions about Insurance requirements in the Visa sections Fred, for Visas or entry to Thailand, which I try to answer to the best of my ability. That does not mean I'm affiliated to or any interest in a particular Insurance company. It merely boils down to trying to help members that may not understand the requirements, which can and do differ.

33 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Of  course there is now a requirement for tourist visa and insurance must be extended to get an extension. Also, tourist coming in via border runs will have to get insurance plus the 300 baht entry fee. At least that's my assumption.

There is no mandatory Insurance requirement for those entering VE or TV to extend their stay, be it for 30, 60 days or 60 day Covid extensions.

The temporary STV (Special Tourist Visa) was the only Tourist Visa type to have a mandatory Insurance requirement to extend their stay.

[Faz]

30 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

The entire premise of foreigners not paying huge unpaid medical bills is a falsity. 

Not a falsity. I know 3 expats who deceased at the local hospital leaving large unpaid medical bills.

The current entry charges as I understand are to pay for renewable tourist infrastructures.
I stand to be corrected but wasn't the proposed 300 baht increase supposedly to rejuvenate a rather run down Pattaya.

Just my opinion, but I'd guess you can apportion the largest amount of unpaid hospitals bills to tourists who enter without any Insurance. Jet ski, motorcycle accidents are commonplace, just look no further than the 'go fund me' pages that are set up, but if Thailand enforced compulsory travel Insurance that would be detrimental to the Tourist industry figures.

The reason they applied the mandatory Health Insurance to the Non Imm O-A Visas is quite simple in my opinion. They were easy targets, permitted to stay 1 year on entry, therefore at higher risk of requiring treatment for accident, illness during that period and without any requirement to keep funds of any kind in a Thai bank account.

[longwood50]

15 minutes ago, Faz said:

Not a falsity. I know 3 expats who deceased at the local hospital leaving large unpaid medical bills

 

Faz,

 

The total bill of unpaid was 448 million baht.  That is by the governments own reporting.  Now that is not nothing but 448 million baht is only 11.75 baht per person.  So they are making a mountain out of a molehill. 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

The requirement to have insurance for a Non-OA could be applied to Non-O at any time of the governments choosing. Unless you have a Thai family or a Thai spouse, you need health insurance now with a Non-OA and could require it for a Non-O in the future. 

It's actually already required by some Thai Embassies for Non O applications based on retirement, but only for the duration of stay, that being 90 days.
 https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

Procedures for Non-Thai nationals who wish to obtain
a Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement)

( If you already have a valid visa/re-entry permit, please register for Thailand Pass at https://tp.consular.go.th/ )

Procedures for Non-Thai nationals who wish to obtain a Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement) visa

1. If the applicant does not have a valid visa or re-entry permit, the applicant must request a visa, at least 15 working days before the intended date of travel, by filling in the information and upload all required documents online at https://www.thaievisa.go.th/ (Please note that the visa application fee is non-refundable)

For instructions, please check https://www.thaievisa.go.th/static/English-Manual.pdf

---

2. Required documents to upload in the system

2.1 Passport

2.2 Two passport-size photographs (2″x 2″)

2.3 Declaration form (download from the E-visa website, see page 32 in the Manual here) with a signature of the applicant (E-signature accepted).

2.4 Proof of flight confirmation/reservation, indicating the trip from US to Thailand.

2.5 Copy of recent bank statement ($700 per person and $1,500 per family).  The name of the applicant must be indicated clearly), In case of submitting a family bank statement, proof of relationship (i.e. birth certificate, marriage certificate) must be provided.

2.6 Applicant must be medically insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:
– Outpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than 40,000 THB, and
– Inpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than  400,000 THB

The applicants must submit the following:

• Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:
  (a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the original insurance policy document with 2 copies;
  (b) In case of a Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit 2 copies of the insurance policy document or, if available, the original insurance policy document with 2 copies. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org
• Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate Form

The Thai government appear to be applying a mandatory Health Insurance policy for Non O Visa applications of the old 400/40K requirement for the Non Imm O-A Visa, whilst increasing the mandatory Health Insurance for the Non Imm O-A Visa to 3M BHT.

Fortunately, unlike the Non Imm O-A Visa, if you wish to extend your stay from a Non O Visa entry, there is no requirement for further Health Insurance for 1 year extension applications based on retirement.

There is no mandatory Health Insurance requirement if applying for a Non Imm O Visa based on Thai spouse/family.

 

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, Faz said:

It's actually already required by some Thai Embassies for Non O applications based on retirement, but only for the duration of stay, that being 90 days.
 https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

Procedures for Non-Thai nationals who wish to obtain
a Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement)

( If you already have a valid visa/re-entry permit, please register for Thailand Pass at https://tp.consular.go.th/ )

Procedures for Non-Thai nationals who wish to obtain a Non-Immigrant Category O (retirement) visa

1. If the applicant does not have a valid visa or re-entry permit, the applicant must request a visa, at least 15 working days before the intended date of travel, by filling in the information and upload all required documents online at https://www.thaievisa.go.th/ (Please note that the visa application fee is non-refundable)

For instructions, please check https://www.thaievisa.go.th/static/English-Manual.pdf

---

2. Required documents to upload in the system

2.1 Passport

2.2 Two passport-size photographs (2″x 2″)

2.3 Declaration form (download from the E-visa website, see page 32 in the Manual here) with a signature of the applicant (E-signature accepted).

2.4 Proof of flight confirmation/reservation, indicating the trip from US to Thailand.

2.5 Copy of recent bank statement ($700 per person and $1,500 per family).  The name of the applicant must be indicated clearly), In case of submitting a family bank statement, proof of relationship (i.e. birth certificate, marriage certificate) must be provided.

2.6 Applicant must be medically insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:
– Outpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than 40,000 THB, and
– Inpatient benefit with a sum insured of not less than  400,000 THB

The applicants must submit the following:

• Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:
  (a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the original insurance policy document with 2 copies;
  (b) In case of a Thai insurance company, the applicant must submit 2 copies of the insurance policy document or, if available, the original insurance policy document with 2 copies. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org
• Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate Form

The Thai government appear to be applying a mandatory Health Insurance policy for Non O Visa applications of the old 400/40K requirement for the Non Imm O-A Visa, whilst increasing the mandatory Health Insurance for the Non Imm O-A Visa to 3M BHT.

Fortunately, unlike the Non Imm O-A Visa, if you wish to extend your stay from a Non O Visa entry, there is no requirement for further Health Insurance for 1 year extension applications based on retirement.

There is no mandatory Health Insurance requirement if applying for a Non Imm O Visa based on Thai spouse/family.

Very interesting Faz. So already there are circumstances where even a Non-O visa needs health insurance. This suggest a move in the direction I’ve been trying to discuss with Fred (with little progress)!!

I tried to get a Non-O from the London Embassey about 3 years ago and it was simply not possible at the time. Do you know if London are now issuing 90 day Non-O visas, albeit with the required health insurance? Health insurance is something I always take out anyway when I leave the Uk and the amounts shown are not that prohibitive. 

[Faz]

14 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Faz,

The total bill of unpaid was 448 million baht.  That is by the governments own reporting.  Now that is not nothing but 448 million baht is only 11.75 baht per person.  So they are making a mountain out of a molehill. 

Appreciate that figure, but that doesn't compensate the hospital that's left with an unpaid bill.

[Faz]

4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I tried to get a Non-O from the London Embassey about 3 years ago and it was simply not possible at the time. Do you know if London are now issuing 90 day Non-O visas, albeit with the required health insurance? Health insurance is something I always take out anyway when I leave the Uk and the amounts shown are not that prohibitive. 

It's a funny old world, as one stone is hidden, another is uncovered 

London used to issue both the Non Imm O ME Visa based on Thai spouse and the Non Imm O based on retirement until late 2014. The USA also never offered the Non Imm O based on retirement.

Then came the 'online' application service, first in China, followed by France, the UK, the USA and Canada.
This is a standard 'online' application system offering the same Visa types to nationals of those Countries.
With it, back came the single entry Non O Visa based on retirement as an option, but away went the Non Imm O ME Visa based on Thai spouse, which is now only available as a single entry.

The Non Imm O Visa based on retirement therefore became available either for the first time or available once again for those intending to retire in Thailand.
Australia for example do not yet use the 'online' system (I believe Spain is next) so unfortunately for their nationals intending to retire in Thailand, the Non Imm O-A Visa is currently the only available option.

As already mentioned, the way to skirt that and avoid the mandatory Health Insurance requirement is to enter either VE or TV, apply for a change in Immigration status from Tourist to Non Immigrant at your local Immigration office (Non O), then apply for further 1 year extensions of stay without any Insurance requirements.

[Faz]

Thailand has already lost many of their long term retirees due to changes.
Thousands are now hopefully enjoying their years in retirement elsewhere.

When the US, UK and Australian Embassies ceased to offer 'Income support' letters for their citizens, it changed the dynamics for many long term expats.
Previously, they made a statutory declaration, or an affidavit, or as in the case of UK citizens pension letters from their Pension providers to support their 'proof of income'.
These figures were 'gross' income, before taxation.

Immigration quickly amended their Immigration orders to accommodate those nationals of proving their incomes via transfer to a Thai bank account. These transfers are made from their overseas banks, where the total pensions deposited were after tax, i.e. the 'nett' figure, then the strong baht reducing the exchanging rates of many currencies.
For many expats who were previously able to provide 'gross' pension figures, they had now effectively lost up to 20% of proof of that 'gross' income and could no longer meet the financial requirements, unless they were fortunate enough to have savings to deposit in a Thai bank to supplement their 'income' figures, depositing either 800K in a Thai bank, or sufficient to make up the shortfall using the combination method, i.e. Part monthly income, part min of 400K funds deposit in a Thai bank.

The UK, US and Australians accounted for some supposedly 80% of Thailand's expat community at that time.