News Forum - Should Foreigners Still Come To Retire In Thailand?

[LoongFred]

47 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Love the frog analogy. 
 

Im in a very similar situation. I’ve been involved in Thailand for a very long time. Initially working and holidaying here and then getting more involved over the years. Like you, if I knew then what I know now, I would have kept Thailand at arms length and come here two or three times a year for a month or two holiday. I’m in my mid 50’s and I still work and will do for a further 5-10 years. I can’t imagine myself living in Thailand full time ever. Maybe that will be by choice, or maybe things will become so difficult and/or expensive to live here. I don’t mean day to day living, more the changes to visa rules and insurance requirements.
 

The majority of expats I see in Thailand basically waste their life walking around from coffee shop to coffee shop, or bar to bar. Either that or they stay at home playing on the internet and pottering around without any purpose in life. Many people also run a business here but actually have little to no direct involvement. The business isn’t in their name and many don’t have a work permit and hence work out of sight for fear of being reported. That’s a life that’s not for me, but I respect it may be fine for others.  

Having the right kind of visa. I believe a Non B is required for a work permit. Many work illegally but that could be risky and some help their Thai wives, but need to be careful. 

Going the illegal route is nerve-racking and one must always be looking over their shoulder. Even volunteers need work permits and the right kind of visa.

 

[LoongFred]

50 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Not yet perhaps?….

This comes up yearly on another forum to scare retirees into buying added insurance. It might be effective on newbies and if your new job is selling insurance. I don't agree with the methods. 

[Soidog]

31 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Having the right kind of visa. I believe a Non B is required for a work permit. Many work illegally but that could be risky and some help their Thai wives, but need to be careful. 

Going the illegal route is nerve-racking and one must always be looking over their shoulder. Even volunteers need work permits and the right kind of visa.

Yea I agree. That’s why I would never work in Thailand (even helping out taking a few drinks to a table) without a proper work permit.  

[Soidog]

28 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

This comes up yearly on another forum to scare retirees into buying added insurance. It might be effective on newbies and if your new job is selling insurance. I don't agree with the methods. 

Wasn’t talking about rumours. I was referring to the fact that even people on Non-O visas are at the mercy of the government. They could introduce health insurance requirements whenever the mood takes them. That is why I will always maintain a home in my own country and only ever bring to Thailand what I can afford to walk away from. 

[LoongFred]

23 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Wasn’t talking about rumours. I was referring to the fact that even people on Non-O visas are at the mercy of the government. They could introduce health insurance requirements whenever the mood takes them. That is why I will always maintain a home in my own country and only ever bring to Thailand what I can afford to walk away from. 

My point is that this isn't a new rumor and it's wrong to stoke the fire. If they want to require Thai insurance ok, but my US policy is probably better. Either way I can pay it but some might have problems.

[LoongFred]

29 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yea I agree. That’s why I would never work in Thailand (even helping out taking a few drinks to a table) without a proper work permit.  

However, in previous posts you said you had business interests in Thailand.  Maybe that's a thing of the past. It's good you now are keeping on the straight and narrow.

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

My point is that this isn't a new rumor and it's wrong to stoke the fire. If they want to require Thai insurance ok, but my US policy is probably better. Either way I can pay it but some might have problems.

Yes I understand. But I wasn’t referring to a rumour. It was my own thoughts on the matter. I’m not looking to start any rumour or stoke the fire. I’m simply saying that as with any type of visa, the requirements are liable to change. It’s difficult to make long term plans when you are not in control or have any rights as a citizen. They could equally change rules relating to 60 day Tourist visas or the requirements to extend your stay on the basis of retirement. Today it’s 800k/400k in the bank or 65,000 per month. That could easily be made in to 1.2m/600k or 85,000 per month. These rules are never applied only to new applicants. They affect everyone. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

However, in previous posts you said you had business interests in Thailand.  Maybe that's a thing of the past. It's good you now are keeping on the straight and narrow.

Yes I have had business interests. I’ve worked for a Dutch company and a UK company in Thailand. I then had a business of my own in Thailand which I established with two Thai friends I had previously worked with. I’ve never been off the straight and narrow so I don’t know why you would think I had somehow changed. Perhaps you are use to breaking the law, it’s not something I’ve ever done, but if you can get away with it then good luck to you.  

[Soidog]

12 minutes ago, Raugh said:

Dude what do think retirement is?

How is that a waste?

 

A couple of Forum Guidelines that may help you. Sorry if I touched a nerve with my post!

1. We encourage and love debate but be courteous even when disagreement may be vigorous! 
2. The forum values and welcomes differing opinions within our Guidelines. So, it is likely you will come across opinions you do not agree with! It is fine to disagree with and challenge opinions, ideas, and facts. Attacking another member because their opinion differs, is not.

 

[drkenchao]

actually the mandatory insurance for retirement visa most likely could not solve the problem allegedly the policy aimed to avoid default of huge medical/hospital fees incurred by foreigners. why? most policy exclude pre existing health condition, the premium likely to be very costly if covering pre existing condition and drive away retirees. Probably better policy is to blacklist those foreigners who default medical payment from entry to thailand, clinics n.hospital can simply inform relevant authorities to impose the ban. Also the increase.of required coverage from 0.4 to 3 million inpatient just after three years of first implementation of health insurancse is quite worriesome for retiremrnt planning

[JamesR]

It depends on what you mean by 'retire' in Thailand.

I know you can stay on a year by year visa extension at the whim of the government and do that for a number of years but you have no right to permanent residency, own a house, medical treatments have to be paid for.

What happens when you get old and can no longer get medical insurance and end up sick? Most people will have to return to their own country permanently. 

Many 'retirees' in Thailand I have come across have bought a house in their wives name and due to inflation over the years have no chance of buying a house back home or afford a good standard of living there.

My plan is once the covid entry paperwork has been abolished I will go to Thailand with a visitors visa and then obtain an extension for one year (nick name retirement visa) but leave my assets in the UK which generate income, leave the bulk of my money in the UK and see how it goes.

I have visited Phuket for six months holidays quite a few times and stay in my house there (in my sons name as he is half Thai born in the UK and has dual passports living and working in the UK) with trips to other areas and have been going to Thailand since 1987, but full time might be another thing, but I can always do a 'runner' back to the UK whenever needed.

I will probably spend time in both Thailand and the UK as both countries are great.

One negative thing is in other countries we can get ten year visas so messing about with one year visas might become annoying. 

But when I am in Thailand I tend to adapt after a month, I don't worry if things take longer to get done as I am in no rush, I like driving there as is also fun, the politics have no bearing on my life, I have no say in politics there and that does not worry me as it has nothing to do with me anyway, nice and easy does it. 

The good thing is after having my fill of walking on beaches etc I can still do my software projects on my computer as all I need is the internet.

 

[JamesR]

3 minutes ago, JamesR said:

sorry posted twice by mistake

 

 

[JamesR]

8 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes I understand. But I wasn’t referring to a rumour. It was my own thoughts on the matter. I’m not looking to start any rumour or stoke the fire. I’m simply saying that as with any type of visa, the requirements are liable to change. It’s difficult to make long term plans when you are not in control or have any rights as a citizen. They could equally change rules relating to 60 day Tourist visas or the requirements to extend your stay on the basis of retirement. Today it’s 800k/400k in the bank or 65,000 per month. That could easily be made in to 1.2m/600k or 85,000 per month. These rules are never applied only to new applicants. They affect everyone. 

Yes that is the sort of thing I was referring to in my post below, we have no rights there and only have a year by year visa extension at the whim of the government and the rules can change at anytime, hence leave all assets etc back home and we can always jump on a plane if things go wrong. 

My attitude when I go there to stay this year is I am only guaranteed a year at a time, it is not really a retirement as such.

[HolyCowCm]

13 hours ago, Raugh said:

Oh sorry.

I did not know, I thought you meant people say that to you as you walk around or in public.

Maybe trying to be a bit cheeky too

Well, for some Thai it may not contain the word dirty, but it most certainly does contain the word Farang, so just need to listen how they are talking outright with tone about us. And for that we would need to do is categorize “Each” Thai person’s answer how they mean it. We are all human beings so we all have a different feel and perception on each other person’s  individual personality. 
But then again it could be an inner level of a certain percent of Thai consciousness or just  not being aware they are doing it. 

[Paulus]

It says O-A visas

Which means either applied for in your home country or as an extention.

It includes all foreigners except B visas and ed visas.

[LoongFred]

14 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes I understand. But I wasn’t referring to a rumour. It was my own thoughts on the matter. I’m not looking to start any rumour or stoke the fire. I’m simply saying that as with any type of visa, the requirements are liable to change. It’s difficult to make long term plans when you are not in control or have any rights as a citizen. They could equally change rules relating to 60 day Tourist visas or the requirements to extend your stay on the basis of retirement. Today it’s 800k/400k in the bank or 65,000 per month. That could easily be made in to 1.2m/600k or 85,000 per month. These rules are never applied only to new applicants. They affect everyone. 

What's your point in saying this? In effect you are raising the blood pressure of falangs that are living good lives here.

 You said you always are the come and go type, so you are only interested in having a good time. Meanwhile, many including many of your countrymen are doing OK but couldn't afford the additional expense. 

One purpose of the 300baht enterence fee was to cover unpaid hospital bill left by falangs. Most of these were tourists on motorscooters who went through a local emergency room where treatment can not be with  held. Of course you were against this fee, but start a rumor that all long term retirees will need 3m in health insurance. The long termers have been very responsible for their bills and I can only recall a couple of cases where there were issues. I say put the responsibility on those causing the problems and demand tourist visa to include adequate insurance.

Hospital admission for non emergencies usually require a deposit or credit card to cover costs. However, the ER must accept all life threatening cases. This is probably the same in the EU or UK.  I know it is in the US. 

Let's keep rumors down and only deal with facts.

[Soidog]

57 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

What's your point in saying this? In effect you are raising the blood pressure of falangs that are living good lives here.

 You said you always are the come and go type, so you are only interested in having a good time. Meanwhile, many including many of your countrymen are doing OK but couldn't afford the additional expense. 

One purpose of the 300baht enterence fee was to cover unpaid hospital bill left by falangs. Most of these were tourists on motorscooters who went through a local emergency room where treatment can not be with  held. Of course you were against this fee, but start a rumor that all long term retirees will need 3m in health insurance. The long termers have been very responsible for their bills and I can only recall a couple of cases where there were issues. I say put the responsibility on those causing the problems and demand tourist visa to include adequate insurance.

Hospital admission for non emergencies usually require a deposit or credit card to cover costs. However, the ER must accept all life threatening cases. This is probably the same in the EU or UK.  I know it is in the US. 

Let's keep rumors down and only deal with facts.

I’m sorry Fred, my mistake. I credited you with too much intelligence and able to understand my comment. I’m sure almost everyone else had no problem understanding it. 
 

So sticking to facts as you’ve requested. It’s a FACT that most people have no long term status to stay in Thailand. It’s a FACT that the rules could and have changed at any time and applied retrospectively. It’s a fact that just as with the 300 Baht charge they apply it to you as well as me as we are both non-immigrants. 
 

The question here is “Should foreigners still come to Thailand to retire?”  I would imagine there are a number of members thinking about it and it’s only right that they have all of the FACTS before they decide. 
 

As @JamesR pointed out. There are very few people who could claim to be retired in Thailand. I would imagine you have a Non-O visa extended on the basis of retirement. That is valid for ONE year only. Next year you may have a problem and will need to leave. I’m sure with your contacts it won’t apply, as you will just call the Prime Minister and explain your status and high education and he will sort it out for you!!

[LoongFred]

28 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’m sorry Fred, my mistake. I credited you with too much intelligence and able to understand my comment. I’m sure almost everyone else had no problem understanding it. 
 

So sticking to facts as you’ve requested. It’s a FACT that most people have no long term status to stay in Thailand. It’s a FACT that the rules could and have changed at any time and applied retrospectively. It’s a fact that just as with the 300 Baht charge they apply it to you as well as me as we are both non-immigrants. 
 

The question here is “Should foreigners still come to Thailand to retire?”  I would imagine there are a number of members thinking about it and it’s only right that they have all of the FACTS before they decide. 
 

As @JamesR pointed out. There are very few people who could claim to be retired in Thailand. I would imagine you have a Non-O visa extended on the basis of retirement. That is valid for ONE year only. Next year you may have a problem and will need to leave. I’m sure with your contacts it won’t apply, as you will just call the Prime Minister and explain your status and high education and he will sort it out for you!!

Well you've called me names before and now you question my intelligence. You are certainly going low and are quit  defensive,IMO. 

I am very comfortable with my statis here and only wish I could contribute more as a volunteer. 

I do have health insurance in excess of what you proposed and have sufficient funds if that become a requirement. I suspect that any changes would affect retirees from the EU and UK much more than me. However, I don't buy into your scare tactics.

[LoongFred]

Just now, LoongFred said:

Well you've called me names before and now you question my intelligence. You are certainly going low and are quit  defensive,IMO. 

I am very comfortable with my statis here and only wish I could contribute more as a volunteer. 

I do have health insurance in excess of what you proposed and have sufficient funds if that become a requirement. I suspect that any changes would affect retirees from the EU and UK much more than me. However, I don't buy into your scare tactics.

I don't know but the subject was supposed to be Should retirees come to Thailand or something like that, and not an discussion about possible made up insurance requirements. 

I know it might be asking too much but people should focus on what Thailand has to offer.⁸

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

I know it might be asking too much but people should focus on what Thailand has to offer.

I am. It’s one year extension to stay, year by year. The topic is “should people still retire to Thailand”. Why can’t you understand that it’s important for people to know these FACTS before making decisions. What in your opinion does it have to offer?

Here’s my list:

Warmer/hotter weather  

Cheaper cost of living, though not as cheap as 10 years ago and the gap will be closed further over the next 10 years. 

Less law enforcement compared to back home. Some people find that a positive, myself included, though it is a double edged sword. I think it’s what some people refer to as “less stressful” 

Natural beauty in some parts of the country. But nothing special compared to many other parts of the world. 
 

The ability for an older man to attract a younger woman. Some find that the only positive. 
 

Cheaper housing costs, but not value for money. 
 

Late night entertainment 7 days a week. Not my thing but nice that’s it’s available if your birthday falls on a Wednesday. 
 

Umm…. Now let me think. What else? Nope, can’t think of any….

[Soidog]

24 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

Well you've called me names before and now you question my intelligence. You are certainly going low and are quit  defensive,IMO.

Where did I call you names Fred? I’m sorry to question your intelligence, but I’m not sure what else you wanted me to conclude. I simply pointed out as a FACT that visa extension rules could be changed at anytime. You interpreted that FACT as me “Stoking fires and starting rumours” I’m sorry if I offended you. I was actually apologising for highlighting a FACT you struggled to understand. I’ll take more care next time when I reply to you. 

[Marc26]

13 hours ago, Soidog said:

I am. It’s one year extension to stay, year by year. The topic is “should people still retire to Thailand”. Why can’t you understand that it’s important for people to know these FACTS before making decisions. What in your opinion does it have to offer?

Here’s my list:

Warmer/hotter weather  

Cheaper cost of living, though not as cheap as 10 years ago and the gap will be closed further over the next 10 years. 

Less law enforcement compared to back home. Some people find that a positive, myself included, though it is a double edged sword. I think it’s what some people refer to as “less stressful” 

Natural beauty in some parts of the country. But nothing special compared to many other parts of the world. 
 

The ability for an older man to attract a younger woman. Some find that the only positive. 
 

Cheaper housing costs, but not value for money. 
 

Late night entertainment 7 days a week. Not my thing but nice that’s it’s available if your birthday falls on a Wednesday. 
 

Umm…. Now let me think. What else? Nope, can’t think of any….

I am curious, what did you find stressful about law enforcement in your home country?

I am no angel but I never even really think of law enforcement, unless I need them

And I guess when I am speeding on the highway, but even that I have only gotten 4 or 5 speeding tickets in 34 years driving

 

And I agree with your natural beauty comment..........I don't find Thailand that particulary beautiful

It's not bad, but not stunning, by any means

 

One big positive you touched on, is 24/7 nightlife............

We are heading to my wife's village and it will fall on a Monday/Tuesday and I know that won't even be an issue if we want to go out...........every night is lively

[Soidog]

31 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I am curious, what did you find stressful about law enforcement in your home country?

Nothing really. What I meant was the ability to basically stop your car or bike more or less where you want and pop in a shop. In the UK it’s a multi-storey car park and a 10 minute walk there and back and then pay a £8 parking fee. No one really seems to care where you stop or park (apart from in an obviously busy city area). Some people also like the ability to buy off a speeding ticket with a few hundred baht rather than £65 fine and 3 points on your license. Personally I don’t like this and this is the double edged sword I referred to. It’s hard to complain about corruption and then engage in it when it suits. 
 

I agree that while Thailand is beautiful, there are many areas that are plain and boring. The architecture in Thailand is almost non existent and nearly every town and City looks the same. It’s only the beauty of its beaches and certain mountains areas which are beautiful, though there are far better places in the world. 

[Marc26]

58 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Nothing really. What I meant was the ability to basically stop your car or bike more or less where you want and pop in a shop. In the UK it’s a multi-storey car park and a 10 minute walk there and back and then pay a £8 parking fee. No one really seems to care where you stop or park (apart from in an obviously busy city area). Some people also like the ability to buy off a speeding ticket with a few hundred baht rather than £65 fine and 3 points on your license. Personally I don’t like this and this is the double edged sword I referred to. It’s hard to complain about corruption and then engage in it when it suits. 
 

I agree that while Thailand is beautiful, there are many areas that are plain and boring. The architecture in Thailand is almost non existent and nearly every town and City looks the same. It’s only the beauty of its beaches and certain mountains areas which are beautiful, though there are far better places in the world. 

Yeah parking is criminal in Vancouver

 

Some places $8.00/hr on the street!

 

I was just in a gorgeous town in Florida, free parking on the street

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=winter+park+fl&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enCA874CA874&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy0fbzkbf2AhUgLTQIHc_hDjgQ_AUoA3oECAEQBQ&biw=1920&bih=1057

[JamesR]

17 hours ago, Soidog said:

I’m sorry Fred, my mistake. I credited you with too much intelligence and able to understand my comment. I’m sure almost everyone else had no problem understanding it. 
 

So sticking to facts as you’ve requested. It’s a FACT that most people have no long term status to stay in Thailand. It’s a FACT that the rules could and have changed at any time and applied retrospectively. It’s a fact that just as with the 300 Baht charge they apply it to you as well as me as we are both non-immigrants. 
 

The question here is “Should foreigners still come to Thailand to retire?”  I would imagine there are a number of members thinking about it and it’s only right that they have all of the FACTS before they decide. 
 

As @JamesR pointed out. There are very few people who could claim to be retired in Thailand. I would imagine you have a Non-O visa extended on the basis of retirement. That is valid for ONE year only. Next year you may have a problem and will need to leave. I’m sure with your contacts it won’t apply, as you will just call the Prime Minister and explain your status and high education and he will sort it out for you!!

The question was about foreigners retiring to Thailand, you and I pointed out a few relevant facts as every country in the world has it pros and cons but as usual if anyone mentions anything seen as negative relating to Thailand we are treated with distain by the usual suspects on this forum. (But they do make me laugh).

It may be they realise what we are saying is correct and they wish to bury their heads in the sand.

Thailand has it pros and cons so it is best to know the cons as well as the pros.

I would disagree with one thing you said, "The ability for an older man to attract a younger woman. Some find that the only positive. "

I am not sure if your said it tongue in cheek as it is difficult to tell in a posting.

As far as I can see most Thai women marry Thai men, the age of Thai couples are normally roughly the same, you do not see very young Thai women married to very old Thai men as you do with SOME Thai-farang marriages.

Those setups are generally financial without the farang seeming to recognise the fact and are usually associated with women from Isaan on the whole.

In general Thailand is great as long as we have an exit strategy in case things change dramatically that being financially, politically or relating to serious health matters. 

I will repeat my main point, we are allowed annual visa extensions, the rules can change anytime, we are temporary 'retirees' with no rights of permanency, and what happens when we get past 75 and can no longer get health insurance?