News Forum - Russian flights keep arriving in Thailand, for now

[KaptainRob]

6 hours ago, Poop said:

Thailand loves the Russians and the Chinese. They are recognized in the world as intelligent supporters of democracy, freedom and peace.

You must be from a different planet. 

[DiJoDavO]

Sorry, but why shouldn't normal Russian people be able to fly somewhere. I thought we shouldn't be racist and discriminate against certain people in 2022.

The actions we do are pretty discriminatory to a huge amount of people because of an action from only 1.

[Poolie]

9 hours ago, Poop said:

All Russians need to accept the responsibility of their leader and their countries actions. Pleading ignorance is not an excuse. Saying we don't support him or vote for him is irrelevant. If you let him stay in power and you do not fight for your people then he will stay in power and you will be blamed for all he does. That was the end result for what Hitler did to the German people. They should have got rid of him but they didn't and we know what happened to the country as a result of that. It took many, many years for the world to forgive Germans and it was the youth who brought about that change.

And heeeeere comes Godwin!!!

[Artemis080]

5 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Sorry, but why shouldn't normal Russian people be able to fly somewhere. I thought we shouldn't be racist and discriminate against certain people in 2022.

The actions we do are pretty discriminatory to a huge amount of people because of an action from only 1.

Oh Please. This isn't racial discrimination, it's war.

Russians can travel to Thailand, no problem. All they need to do is find an airline that actually will fly from Russia or isn't shortly about to collapse (Aeroflot), have a currency in something other than the value of shredded paper, a payment method from the 70's that still works, and it's all sorted!

[Poop]

Thailand loves the Russians and the Chinese. They are recognized in the world as intelligent supporters of democracy, freedom and peace.

lol, that was sarcasm...

People from all over the world are now flying to Ukraine and it is not to say hello to Russians. They are going to defend Ukraine and fight Russia....

Russians global reputation is going to get a lot worse in the coming days as Putin gets more desperate. They are going to face discrimination from potentially anyone the moment they leave their country. This is so unfair for the Russians who are against the war or who know that the media is all lies. But is likely the only thing that will lead to such discontent they will take action to get rid of their leaders or convince others that media has deceived them.

Right now people are travelling to Ukraine to fight Russia. The future though is that if this continues eventually fathers who have lost their family in Ukraine will start travelling to where Russians travel.... The coming weeks Putin will get more desperate and then the safety of Russians abroad will become a concern. I think Thailand will need to start preparing for the time where the safety of Russians abroad will be an issue as this is future.

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Poop

[1l1]

23 hours ago, Guphz said:

censorship

23 hours ago, Guphz said:

more Russians are now protesting the war

The law imposing a jail term of up to 15 years for spreading intentionally "fake" news about the military.

Passed unanimously through 2 houses of parliament for 1 day.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-introduce-jail-terms-spreading-fake-information-about-army-2022-03-04/

Edited March 4, 2022 by 1l1

[Coconut]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:34 PM, focalS said:

A Russian citizen who grew up in the UK here. My great-grandfather was executed under Stalin's regime. 

I flew in from Russia for a long vacation right before the war began. A few days later we learned the leader I do not support (and for whom have never voted) has invaded Ukraine. 

Putin is a very clever psychopath. Here is why he is choosing now to wage the war against Ukraine:
1. His support at home is very low. Pretty much no one age 30 and below trusts his government. We want none of his shit. Waging a war is a great way to "raise public spirits" - that's clean out the U.S. playbook (remember Afghan invasion and Bush's ratings?). War activates an archetypal response in most individuals which is older than history. Patriotism abounds. And so on. 

2. The sanctions against Russia and Russians enable Putin to put up a new iron curtain, thicker and heavier than ever before and to say "it's not me, it's the West. Blame the West for the iron curtain! I was just defending freedom/fighting nazis/whatever bullshit my speechwriters come up with." 

3. Once the patriotism wears off and the Russian people slowly start realising they've been royally f***ed, they will find themselves in a society more authoritarian than ever before. The only way to keep his power is to tighten the bolts and he will now have free reign behind the new iron curtain and out of sight of European overseers. Medvedev (ex president, current PM) announced a few days ago that since Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, it's a great time to reintroduce the death penalty in Russia. This was a direct threat to the anti-war protesters. Need more proof this is coming? The Memorial (a non-profit in Russia working to keep remembrance of the millions of victims of Soviet bloody regime) was found to be a terrorist organization and banned just in December 2021. A government which is actively engaged in political repression and is planning on screwing the bolts ever tighter does not need people calling it out on its actions or reminding the populace of the horrors their ancestors suffered at the hands of a Russian government. 

I'm going to delve a bit into mass psychology here, I hope I don't lose you. I am a bit of a Jungian and I subscribe to the notion of a collective unconscious. It exists on multiple levels, some parts are common to all humans, some later parts are common to local populations. All people/nations/populations have a dark side to our unconscious. It is a side we prefer not to know about ourselves, our darkest desires, our evil side - what religions call the devil. It is a real thing both for individuals and for populations. Let's call it Shadow. 

Let's take two nations as example. Germany and Russia. Both have bloody histories that will chill your blood. Yet, while Germany is embracing/integrating their Shadow by teaching children about horrors of the holocaust and third Reich, Russia is pretending that it has no dark spots in its history. It is banning organisations which can remind citizens of its dark past, the rhetoric from the government and the Church always paints Russia as the savior, the force for good. When a Shadow is ignored, it will break through and it will dominate the behavior of the individual/nation/population in time. 

And that is precisely what happened with Russia under Putin. 

When you think about Putin waging war against Ukraine, you need to realize that he is also waging war against his own people. Once the bloodshed in Ukraine stops, the bloodshed in Russia will begin. I hope and pray it does not look like it did in the last century, yet I fear that, unless the maniac is stopped, it will. 

The only way he will be stopped is if the oligarchs/the elite come to realize that Putin is more of a liability/risk to them than an asset. 

When you say "cancel all Russians" you are playing to the tune of an archetype - hate of the "other", known as xenophobia. It's not a bad thing but it's not a good thing either, it just is. The truth is, all humans have much more in common than otherwise. The Russians you want to punish are just people. Most of the ones leaving Russia now are doing so because they realize where the wind is blowing in their country - back to the USSR but worse. Likely, they do not support Putin.

Do you hold yourself accountable for every action of your government?  

You cannot judge Russians for not getting rid of Putin, the same way you might judge Americans for putting Trump in power. Russia is not a democracy. People really have no choice there. Moreover, the lack of democracy begins in the minds of the people - they are conditioned to believe that no change through civil action is possible. And the kicker is - this is very much true in Russia.

A bit more to the point of making a pariah out of an entire population of people - how would you rate the U.S. treatment of the Japanese during WWII (putting them in interment camps and such), would you say it's a good thing? If you think it's a good thing, my arguments will do nothing to change your view. If you say it's a bad thing, then I don't think I need say more. 

As for me, I am staying in Asia. Due to the nature of my work, I cannot be behind an informational Iron Curtain. Moreover, I do not want to be in Russia when the purges begin.  

The Russians you meet here, chances are they do not support Putler, they just want to be somewhere safe. 

Well said. Hope good people from  Ukraine/Russian have enough time to leave safety. Finn news reports border crossing by land is getting heavier from Russia.Knowing Thailand is not immigration friendly, wish best to all of you.

[MikeHunt]

Russians should be banned for all travel.

[swsmedia]

Yes, The Thai Government don't have the guts to do what Singapore, South Korea and Japan already have done, ban Russian flight, not because we want to harm Russian people, to harm Putin and his Military machine, it is up to the Russian people and stand up against this dictator. 

[focalS]

3 hours ago, swsmedia said:

it is up to the Russian people and stand up against this dictator. 

Please see my long read above. Russia is not a land where grassroots change is possible. Moreover, it is quickly turning into an authoritarian regime. With the passing of the law threatening 15 years jail time for disagreeing with the state's news reporting this week, it just took a 50 year step backwards. The only way Putin goes is if the rest of the ruling and financial elite see him as more of a risk and liability than an asset. 

[Manu]

25 minutes ago, focalS said:

Please see my long read above. Russia is not a land where grassroots change is possible. Moreover, it is quickly turning into an authoritarian regime. With the passing of the law threatening 15 years jail time for disagreeing with the state's news reporting this week, it just took a 50 year step backwards. The only way Putin goes is if the rest of the ruling and financial elite see him as more of a risk and liability than an asset. 

Absolutely. And apparently, there are more of them than we think, including high rank militaries. It seems indeed "the only way" as long as there is no interference... (well no doubt the CIA and others are on the case but...). That would be a disaster.

[Grant]

1 hour ago, focalS said:

Please see my long read above. Russia is not a land where grassroots change is possible. Moreover, it is quickly turning into an authoritarian regime. With the passing of the law threatening 15 years jail time for disagreeing with the state's news reporting this week, it just took a 50 year step backwards. The only way Putin goes is if the rest of the ruling and financial elite see him as more of a risk and liability than an asset. 

What do you mean turning into an Authoritarian Regime??

It has always been that with him at the helm!

He even changed the laws on terms of Presidency

[Grant]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:17 PM, DiJoDavO said:

Sorry, but why shouldn't normal Russian people be able to fly somewhere. I thought we shouldn't be racist and discriminate against certain people in 2022.

The actions we do are pretty discriminatory to a huge amount of people because of an action from only 1.

I think the point is!

You should be protesting your government’s decisions!

Not going on holiday as if it’s not your business?

If Russian’s are embarrassed?

Do something about it and get rid of this tyrant!

For most people see that taking a holiday while your country takes over a sovereign country  is embarrassing and I for one would take a stand !

You should be embarrassed a instead of taking a holiday!

[Poolie]

1 hour ago, Grant said:

I think the point is!

You should be protesting your government’s decisions!

Not going on holiday as if it’s not your business?

If Russian’s are embarrassed?

Do something about it and get rid of this tyrant!

For most people see that taking a holiday while your country takes over a sovereign country  is embarrassing and I for one would take a stand !

You should be embarrassed a instead of taking a holiday!

Hells bells, the Americans would never get a holiday!!

[Stardust]

Just at the moment in the news. Aeroflot: No more flights from Russia to any country in the world, starting coming tuesday. Anyway they have cut all spare parts supply to all Russian Airlines, so they will be all grounded anyway.

[focalS]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:45 PM, Grant said:

What do you mean turning into an Authoritarian Regime??

It has always been that with him at the helm!

He even changed the laws on terms of Presidency

I mean authoritarian in the Soviet Union sense. As in - jailed or executed for dissenting thought, unable to leave the country, lacking access to books/information that disagrees with the official state position. 

[oldschooler]

On 2/27/2022 at 3:44 PM, Fundok said:

Well, this is how it typically goes: the citizen are held responsible for what their government does.

Did the USA get away way too good in the past for all their interventions in the past? For sure. Double standards? Sadly, yes. But that doesn't mean the world should a blind eye on Russia's unwarranted aggression in Ukraine.

“US Interventions in Backward Hellholes with Evil Regimes “ 

You started at 1945 & omitted US WW1/ WW2 mention where USA, with British Commonwealth, saved Western Enlightened Civilization and thereby helped save Entire Third World from Fascist Enslavement so enabled their Independence.

[Fundok]

23 hours ago, oldschooler said:

“US Interventions in Backward Hellholes with Evil Regimes “ 

You started at 1945 & omitted US WW1/ WW2 mention where USA, with British Commonwealth, saved Western Enlightened Civilization and thereby helped save Entire Third World from Fascist Enslavement so enabled their Independence.

I did not specifically relate to WW I or WW II, for good reason. The world would have been a different one if the Entente (Germany, Italy, Japan) would have won - and for sure not a better one. But the USA have been involved actively in numerous conflicts after WW II without being attacked and therefore acting in self defense. Remember those weapons of mass destruction that - according to the US - Iraq had and served as the reason for the invasion? Not one single of those weapons was ever detected to the US blatantly lied to the world to wage a war. The genereous usage of Agent Orange and Napalm in the Korean war obviously hit not only military targets but civilians as well, so this is what I related to. Does this justify Russias attack on Ukraine and their athrosities against the Ukrainian civilians? Certainly not. But there is a saying that the one sitting in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

[Fundok]

10 minutes ago, Transam said:

The Ukrainians are sitting in their glass house, and they never threw stones, it was the opposite...

I surely did not relate to Ukraine but actions taken by the USA which in my view are questionable (to say the least) and where there weren't any international repercussions. That's the past and Russians war on Ukraine is the present. Let's hope it comes to an end soon without Russia acting as they did in Grosny where they virtually obliterated the whole city.

[Marble-eye]

2 minutes ago, Fundok said:

I surely did not relate to Ukraine but actions taken by the USA which in my view are questionable (to say the least) and where there weren't any international repercussions. That's the past and Russians war on Ukraine is the present. Let's hope it comes to an end soon without Russia acting as they did in Grosny where they virtually obliterated the whole city.

"Let's hope it comes to an end soon without Russia acting as they did in Grosny where they virtually obliterated the whole city."

I'm sure that Putin and his crones are working on it, they seem to be well on the way to obliterating anything in front of them.

 

[oldschooler]

20 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

"Let's hope it comes to an end soon without Russia acting as they did in Grosny where they virtually obliterated the whole city."

I'm sure that Putin and his crones are working on it, they seem to be well on the way to obliterating anything in front of them.

Looks like it’s the Russian Army & Economy getting obliterated by western NLAW & Sanctions. 

[oldschooler]

52 minutes ago, Fundok said:

I did not specifically relate to WW I or WW II, for good reason. The world would have been a different one if the Entente (Germany, Italy, Japan) would have won - and for sure not a better one. But the USA have been involved actively in numerous conflicts after WW II without being attacked and therefore acting in self defense. Remember those weapons of mass destruction that - according to the US - Iraq had and served as the reason for the invasion? Not one single of those weapons was ever detected to the US blatantly lied to the world to wage a war. The genereous usage of Agent Orange and Napalm in the Korean war obviously hit not only military targets but civilians as well, so this is what I related to. Does this justify Russias attack on Ukraine and their athrosities against the Ukrainian civilians? Certainly not. But there is a saying that the one sitting in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

No Comparison between sometimes misguided actions of democratic accountable nations ( paid for at the ballot box) exclusively against nasty tyrannies, and evil acts of war & terror upon peaceful countries by brutal single- dictator tyrannies.

Iraq had deployed Genocidal WMD ( gas) against its Kurds, had a NATO No Fly zone imposed and had attacked Iran & Kuwait Unprovoked. Vietnam clearly a ghastly error but with moral intention to halt SE Asian Communism. As UK did in Malaya.

[oldschooler]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:45 PM, Grant said:

What do you mean turning into an Authoritarian Regime??

It has always been that with him at the helm!

He even changed the laws on terms of Presidency

Russia always been under tyranny for its entire 1000 year history …. by peoples Choice…. no interest or understanding of Democracy,  like Islamic countries ….. “ strong leaders” by “ Divine Absolute Rule” required…. now eat it, you slave coward populations. 

[Vigo]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:30 PM, focalS said:

Please see my long read above. Russia is not a land where grassroots change is possible. Moreover, it is quickly turning into an authoritarian regime. With the passing of the law threatening 15 years jail time for disagreeing with the state's news reporting this week, it just took a 50 year step backwards. The only way Putin goes is if the rest of the ruling and financial elite see him as more of a risk and liability than an asset. 

Russia did have grass roots change. Gorbachev is ignored and Yeltsin dismissed , but they modernized Russia and gave it modern luxuries.

[Fundok]

23 hours ago, oldschooler said:

No Comparison between sometimes misguided actions of democratic accountable nations ( paid for at the ballot box) exclusively against nasty tyrannies, and evil acts of war & terror upon peaceful countries by brutal single- dictator tyrannies.

Iraq had deployed Genocidal WMD ( gas) against its Kurds, had a NATO No Fly zone imposed and had attacked Iran & Kuwait Unprovoked. Vietnam clearly a ghastly error but with moral intention to halt SE Asian Communism. As UK did in Malaya.

Sorry, but I disagree to some extent. Saddam was evil, many other dictators are too. But this alone does not give a 3rd country the right to invade. Iraq didn't pose a threat to the west since they had no means to attack whereas Collin Powell claimed in front of the UN general assembly that an attack was immanent. But actually, this was not where this thread started off. The question was, if there are double standards with regards to the punishment of countries committing war crimes and in my view there are. Russia  is now subjected to the heaviest economic sanctions ever - and rightfully so. But in light of what I consider war crimes the Americans got away with a lot of things in the past where they should have received international punishment as well. Mistreating and tortureing prisoners, waging wars w/o being attacked, orchestrating government overthroughs, the list is long. I recall seeing pictures of Rumsfeld with Saddam happily together, and during the time Russia attacked Afghanistan the USA provided Osama Bin Laden with weapons to fight Russia. So double standards everywhere. Even right now the USA is incarcerating suspected ISIS fighters in Guantanamo for decades (!) now, without taking them to trial, not giving them the very basic rights of prisoners of war, just locking them away without any chance for those men to prove their innocence in court or at least being sentenced and released after serving their time. This to me is also a crime against humanity and hence the USA should be held resonsible too, irrespective of other countries also committing crimes against humanity (they too ought to be held responsible punished of course).