News Forum - Russian flights keep arriving in Thailand, for now

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, OOber said:

Thank you for proving my point. 

My question is, why should we forward thinking people be concerned with <deleted content> ?

Your “point” is wrong. Your “ question” irrelevant. You haven’t properly read my original post. You ignore my distinction between Ancient & Modern Worlds. You conduct personal attacks. you say west invented nothing. Demonstrating incredible ignorance. your knowledge & reasoning is poor. <deleted content>

Edited February 27, 2022 by BigHewer
Inflammatory comment removed

[OOber]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

so west invented nothing …. who invented jet engines, computers , guns, aircraft, combustion engine, spacecraft, steam coal nuclear power , wireless , TV, vaccines, etc. …. thought so.

I never said that. But the great inventions of the West, which are incredible, came in a reasonably short period in the last couple of centuries. Maybe it continues, maybe others will take the lead. My point is that animals have diversity of species, we are only one and should behave accordingly, sharing and educating one another.  No one should consider others less for lack of contribution. I mean, there isn't that much coming from Norway, but they have one of the best forms of society. 

I don't know why you are so keen to put others below you and your ethnicity. Acknowledge others too, it doesn't hurt as much as a vaccine prick, you should know.

[Noble_Design]

13 hours ago, Benroon said:

Tourist cash isn’t going to be so important when everyone’s dead. 
 

A bit over dramatic isn't it?

8 hours ago, Fundok said:

It might even backfire. Yes, Russia will remain happy. But the rest of the Western World may react disgusted by Thailand not taking a stand against this war and actually even make money of it where everywhere else toughest economic sanctions are put in place.

Are a couple of thousand Russian tourists really worth this sort of trouble in the medium to long term?

And Thailand will also be disgusted with the Western world's sanctions on Russia and yet still buying oil and gas from them. Kind of a half hearted effort, I mean if the Western world wants to go all out on Russia just stop buying oil and gas from them, is it that hard to do?

https://time.com/6151493/russia-oil-gas-embargo-sanctions-ukraine/

And it's not just a couple of thousand Russian tourists, since the very first month of 2022 when Test & Go was implemented the Russians make up the largest group of tourists not only from Europe but for the rest of the world in January.

https://www.mots.go.th/more_news_new.php?cid=656

1 hour ago, Expat936 said:

Why has Thailand not banned Russians like the rest of the World has? Too interested in their dirty money I suppose?

The rest of the world? You mean just the Western world? Rest of the world =/= Western world.

By the way why haven't the Western world ban Russian oil and gas?

 

[KomanderChicknNugget]

<abusive content deleted>

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by KaptainRob
refer forum guidelines

[Fundok]

12 hours ago, Poolie said:

I have no intention of getting into a discussion with someone who 'doesn't understand.' 

That's perfectly fine with me. Obviously I am not able to appreciate the intrinsic depth of your thoughts. Let's leave it at that.

[Fundok]

4 hours ago, Noble_Design said:

A bit over dramatic isn't it?

And Thailand will also be disgusted with the Western world's sanctions on Russia and yet still buying oil and gas from them. Kind of a half hearted effort, I mean if the Western world wants to go all out on Russia just stop buying oil and gas from them, is it that hard to do?

https://time.com/6151493/russia-oil-gas-embargo-sanctions-ukraine/

And it's not just a couple of thousand Russian tourists, since the very first month of 2022 when Test & Go was implemented the Russians make up the largest group of tourists not only from Europe but for the rest of the world in January.

https://www.mots.go.th/more_news_new.php?cid=656

The rest of the world? You mean just the Western world? Rest of the world =/= Western world.

By the way why haven't the Western world ban Russian oil and gas?

Just add up the number of all Europeans and North American and set the number of Russian visitors against it. Just put everything in the right perspective and you'll see what ist will mean for Thailand to lose the western visitors.

The EU has closed its airspace for Russian aircraft today - not only commercial but also private jets. Time for Thailand to follow suit. Would be more symbolic anyway; without access to SWIFT Russian travellers will soon not be able to access their bank accounts and credit cards.

 

[MichaelPhuket]

Please be wise & block these Russian flights from coming into Thailand. Act with your heart not with your bank account in mind. The world is at the brink of war caused by unprecedented agression & disinformation from pUtin and his regime. Join the sanctions & show you care as the world cared for Thailand after the horrific tsunami. Stand with the nation's that do not accept an upcoming world war caused by a delusional dictator. Forget the Rubels and predict peace & common sense. Is Thailand accepting this ?.

Take a stand and let the Russians enjoy their holiday in Sochi.

[MichaelPhuket]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:14 AM, Poolie said:

Nobody makes you watch it, do they?

No, and nobody makes you watch the unprecedented agression from Russia in Ukraine. Ignorance is a bliss.Untill the moment it affects your near one's.

If you want to watch RT than go to the internet. No need for a government run media channel that exclusively shows fake news & shows pride in slaughtering civilians

[Faraday]

Thread locked for a clean up...

[BigHewer]

Numerous off topic posts removed. Abusive content also removed. 

Members are advised to stay on topic and keep things civil. Strong debate is welcome, insulting statements are not. 

One warning issued already. Let’s hope the tally stays at one.

Regards,

Moderator

[Paulw]

19 hours ago, Fundok said:

Any evidence for the 'overwhelming majority"-claim? Yes, there were protests (disbursed brutally by Russian police and security forces) but "overwhelming"? 

A peaceful country got needlessly attacked by its bigger neighbour with brutal military might, and all you are concerned about the Thai tourism? 

Shameful.

Not true, my concern is for the Ukrainian people and those other countries in close proximity that may become involved, it was just a mention that it will also effect Thai tourism but not my major concern. Most Russian people are too afraid to protest given the harshness of retribution, if there is a large enough international opposition that may be enough to sway the Russian people who already do not want this war!

[Noble_Design]

7 hours ago, Fundok said:

Just add up the number of all Europeans and North American and set the number of Russian visitors against it. Just put everything in the right perspective and you'll see what ist will mean for Thailand to lose the western visitors.

The EU has closed its airspace for Russian aircraft today - not only commercial but also private jets. Time for Thailand to follow suit. Would be more symbolic anyway; without access to SWIFT Russian travellers will soon not be able to access their bank accounts and credit cards.

As long as the west is still importing oil and gas from Russia, as long as the west is still dependent on Russia's space agency to keep the International Space Station afloat, I think the west has no moral high ground to ask Thailand to follow the west's closing of airspace to Russian aircrafts.

In the same vein, Thailand has also not been importing Russian oil and gas - so should the west follow suit?

https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/lng/112521-thailand-data-lng-imports-rise-37-on-year-to-679779-mt-in-october#:~:text=The Southeast Asia nation imported,2020%2C the customs data showed.

 

[longwood50]

I just wonder how the Russians who are here can exist if the Ruble can not be converted to baht.  Even the few locations that still show an exchange for it have it so low that I would think the Russians would find it extraordinarily expensive to remain in Thailand.  If this continues expect some really good deals on Condo's, Homes, and Cars soon. 

[Fundok]

1 hour ago, Noble_Design said:

As long as the west is still importing oil and gas from Russia, as long as the west is still dependent on Russia's space agency to keep the International Space Station afloat, I think the west has no moral high ground to ask Thailand to follow the west's closing of airspace to Russian aircrafts.

In the same vein, Thailand has also not been importing Russian oil and gas - so should the west follow suit?

https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/lng/112521-thailand-data-lng-imports-rise-37-on-year-to-679779-mt-in-october#:~:text=The Southeast Asia nation imported,2020%2C the customs data showed.

It's not "the West", it's the free world that should stand shoulder to shoulder. True, "the West" has imported gas & oil from Russia and has done so for a long time despite all political differences (Germany built a pipeline which was paid for by Russia around 40 yrs ago if my recollection is correct). But this is one thing. Attacking a peaceful neighbour with all military might after already having stolen a large chunk of his land (Krimea) is nothing any free and peace loving country should condone. Not allowing Russians in is a small price to pay in the short time and might get really expensive in the long run. Thailand just needs to take a pick.

As mentioned before, without access to SWIFT Russian bank and credit cards will presumably not work in Thailand anyway very soon (there have been reports that it is even difficult to get money out of the ATMs in Russia as seen on German TV last night).

[MEMYSELFALONE]

I have a month's holiday booked from mid Nov. to mid Dec. If ANY Russians are allowed into Phuket I will cancel. Russians were a pain before, now they should be banned from everywhere!

[HiuMak]

Russians should just go to Ukraine for a holiday. They can see what they create.

[Dialemco]

In the past wars have occured during pandemics the same is happening now. Tourism is the front line as unfortunately the good days are over.

[Dialemco]

On 2/27/2022 at 4:52 PM, Noble_Design said:

A bit over dramatic isn't it?

And Thailand will also be disgusted with the Western world's sanctions on Russia and yet still buying oil and gas from them. Kind of a half hearted effort, I mean if the Western world wants to go all out on Russia just stop buying oil and gas from them, is it that hard to do?

https://time.com/6151493/russia-oil-gas-embargo-sanctions-ukraine/

And it's not just a couple of thousand Russian tourists, since the very first month of 2022 when Test & Go was implemented the Russians make up the largest group of tourists not only from Europe but for the rest of the world in January.

https://www.mots.go.th/more_news_new.php?cid=656

The rest of the world? You mean just the Western world? Rest of the world =/= Western world.

By the way why haven't the Western world ban Russian oil and gas?

It is inevitable this will happen earlier than expected 

[Cabra]

The whataboutism is irrelevant to the current situation... Which is an imperialist (in this case Putin) has now taken up colonialist ideals to seed Ukraine back under Russian control. We have not seen this sort of action by anyone since WWII Germany. The world can not sit back and not do whatever it takes to punish such behavior. 

[focalS]

A Russian citizen who grew up in the UK here. My great-grandfather was executed under Stalin's regime. 

I flew in from Russia for a long vacation right before the war began. A few days later we learned the leader I do not support (and for whom have never voted) has invaded Ukraine. 

Putin is a very clever psychopath. Here is why he is choosing now to wage the war against Ukraine:
1. His support at home is very low. Pretty much no one age 30 and below trusts his government. We want none of his shit. Waging a war is a great way to "raise public spirits" - that's clean out the U.S. playbook (remember Afghan invasion and Bush's ratings?). War activates an archetypal response in most individuals which is older than history. Patriotism abounds. And so on. 

2. The sanctions against Russia and Russians enable Putin to put up a new iron curtain, thicker and heavier than ever before and to say "it's not me, it's the West. Blame the West for the iron curtain! I was just defending freedom/fighting nazis/whatever bullshit my speechwriters come up with." 

3. Once the patriotism wears off and the Russian people slowly start realising they've been royally f***ed, they will find themselves in a society more authoritarian than ever before. The only way to keep his power is to tighten the bolts and he will now have free reign behind the new iron curtain and out of sight of European overseers. Medvedev (ex president, current PM) announced a few days ago that since Russia has been kicked out of the Council of Europe, it's a great time to reintroduce the death penalty in Russia. This was a direct threat to the anti-war protesters. Need more proof this is coming? The Memorial (a non-profit in Russia working to keep remembrance of the millions of victims of Soviet bloody regime) was found to be a terrorist organization and banned just in December 2021. A government which is actively engaged in political repression and is planning on screwing the bolts ever tighter does not need people calling it out on its actions or reminding the populace of the horrors their ancestors suffered at the hands of a Russian government. 

I'm going to delve a bit into mass psychology here, I hope I don't lose you. I am a bit of a Jungian and I subscribe to the notion of a collective unconscious. It exists on multiple levels, some parts are common to all humans, some later parts are common to local populations. All people/nations/populations have a dark side to our unconscious. It is a side we prefer not to know about ourselves, our darkest desires, our evil side - what religions call the devil. It is a real thing both for individuals and for populations. Let's call it Shadow. 

Let's take two nations as example. Germany and Russia. Both have bloody histories that will chill your blood. Yet, while Germany is embracing/integrating their Shadow by teaching children about horrors of the holocaust and third Reich, Russia is pretending that it has no dark spots in its history. It is banning organisations which can remind citizens of its dark past, the rhetoric from the government and the Church always paints Russia as the savior, the force for good. When a Shadow is ignored, it will break through and it will dominate the behavior of the individual/nation/population in time. 

And that is precisely what happened with Russia under Putin. 

When you think about Putin waging war against Ukraine, you need to realize that he is also waging war against his own people. Once the bloodshed in Ukraine stops, the bloodshed in Russia will begin. I hope and pray it does not look like it did in the last century, yet I fear that, unless the maniac is stopped, it will. 

The only way he will be stopped is if the oligarchs/the elite come to realize that Putin is more of a liability/risk to them than an asset. 

When you say "cancel all Russians" you are playing to the tune of an archetype - hate of the "other", known as xenophobia. It's not a bad thing but it's not a good thing either, it just is. The truth is, all humans have much more in common than otherwise. The Russians you want to punish are just people. Most of the ones leaving Russia now are doing so because they realize where the wind is blowing in their country - back to the USSR but worse. Likely, they do not support Putin.

Do you hold yourself accountable for every action of your government?  

You cannot judge Russians for not getting rid of Putin, the same way you might judge Americans for putting Trump in power. Russia is not a democracy. People really have no choice there. Moreover, the lack of democracy begins in the minds of the people - they are conditioned to believe that no change through civil action is possible. And the kicker is - this is very much true in Russia.

A bit more to the point of making a pariah out of an entire population of people - how would you rate the U.S. treatment of the Japanese during WWII (putting them in interment camps and such), would you say it's a good thing? If you think it's a good thing, my arguments will do nothing to change your view. If you say it's a bad thing, then I don't think I need say more. 

As for me, I am staying in Asia. Due to the nature of my work, I cannot be behind an informational Iron Curtain. Moreover, I do not want to be in Russia when the purges begin.  

The Russians you meet here, chances are they do not support Putler, they just want to be somewhere safe. 

[Poop]

Thailand loves the Russians and the Chinese. They are recognized in the world as intelligent supporters of democracy, freedom and peace. The only problem is the rest of the world is losing all respect for them. What next will Thailand do? Open their borders to tourists from Myramar and North Korea. I used to love going to Thailand and seeing tourists from many other countries with friendly tourists. Last trip to Phuket Thais kept referring to me as a Russian. I was so embarrassed and disgusted I will  never go back to that area again. If Thailand was smart they would stop chasing volume and focus on quality as they are discouraging tourists from wealthy countries  who actually spend money and are as friendly as the Thais...

[Guphz]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:03 AM, Noble_Design said:

as long as the west is still dependent on Russia's space agency to keep the International Space Station afloat

They aren't. SpaceX takes care of that.

Now, should Russians be banned from Thailand? On the one hand, what Russia is doing is absolutely unacceptable. On the other hand, it is not the regular Russian tourist in Thailand who is doing this, and another important point is that if Russians don't get to travel anywhere, they will never be exposed to anything but propaganda from their dictator.

For Russia to change, the people there need access to information. Banning them from traveling to Thailand, where they might get information they otherwise wouldn't have because of censorship in Russia, might backfire.

[Poop]

All Russians need to accept the responsibility of their leader and their countries actions. Pleading ignorance is not an excuse. Saying we don't support him or vote for him is irrelevant. If you let him stay in power and you do not fight for your people then he will stay in power and you will be blamed for all he does. That was the end result for what Hitler did to the German people. They should have got rid of him but they didn't and we know what happened to the country as a result of that. It took many, many years for the world to forgive Germans and it was the youth who brought about that change.

[Guphz]

16 minutes ago, Poop said:

All Russians need to accept the responsibility of their leader and their countries actions. Pleading ignorance is not an excuse. Saying we don't support him or vote for him is irrelevant. If you let him stay in power and you do not fight for your people then he will stay in power and you will be blamed for all he does. That was the end result for what Hitler did to the German people. They should have got rid of him but they didn't and we know what happened to the country as a result of that. It took many, many years for the world to forgive Germans and it was the youth who brought about that change.

I disagree, for the most part. You are forgetting that Russia is basically run by a dictator who uses extensive brainwashing techniques and censorship to control his people. His goal is apparently a North Korea-style "bubble".

Protest are cracked down on - hard. Despite that, more and more Russians are now protesting the war.

But remember, this is the place where political opponents who disagree with Putin are found pumped full of poison. Inconvenient journalists are found in little pieces in a suitcase. And so on. Would you be willing to sacrifice your life if you had a family to take care of?

[focalS]

5 hours ago, Poop said:

Last trip to Phuket Thais kept referring to me as a Russian. I was so embarrassed and disgusted I will  never go back to that area again.

Tell me you have a racial superiority complex without telling me you have a racial superiority complex.