News Forum - Putin sends ‘peacekeeping’ troops to Ukraine after recognising breakaway regions

[KRLMRX]

20 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

There is a lot of sense in what you say, but it ignores the principles of democracy. The population of Ukraine is 44 mill. of which about 8 mill are ethnic Russians. That includes Crimea. Why should 8 mill Russians be allowed to detach themselves from Ukraine in order to hand over a huge swathe of the country to Russia against the wishes of the other 36 mill? 

How often are we going to see Russia inventing pretexts of protecting "Russians" as they have done in Moldova, Ukraine and Georgia as an excuse to invade peaceful countries? 

it is not true.

Poll: 41% of Ukrainians consider themselves one people with the Russians, 55% do not agree with this

 July 27, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-57984025

[Vigo]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:42 AM, butterfly said:

Vietnam, Korea War, Iraq? rings a bell?

failed again

Seriously? The USA actions in the  3 wars pass the stink test. 

Vietnam:  USA was invited by the legitimate government of South Vietnam to defend against  attacks coming from North Vietnam.

Korea War: USA was one of the participants in the UN authorized and sponsored police action to defend South Korea from invading North Korean and then Chinese military.

Iraq War: Although it had  limited international coalition support, its action was broadly supported, particularly by the smaller middle eastern / Gulf countries who had been terrorized, extorted and bullied by Iraq. It was an unfortunate outcome of the UN endorsed liberation of Kuwait. Had the liberation not ended with removal of Iraqi military from Kuwait but finished with the arrest of  Iraqi leadership and closing down of their reign of error at the time, there would not have been a second war. It was like doing  half a cancer treatment at the time.

[KRLMRX]

17 minutes ago, Vigo said:

In this case, both Russia and the west acted in a responsible manner, even if they also  improved their own security as an outcome.

formally true, but in fact in 1994 drunken Yeltsin did not care about global security, and he was completely dependent on the US and Europe. This decision was dictated solely by the United States, for fear of the spread of nuclear weapons around the world.

[JohninDublin]

53 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

it is not true.

Poll: 41% of Ukrainians consider themselves one people with the Russians, 55% do not agree with this

 July 27, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-57984025

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine

Extract: This community forms the largest single Russian diaspora in the world. In the 2001 Ukrainian census, 8,334,100 identified as ethnic Russians (17.3% of the population of Ukraine); this is the combined figure for persons originating from outside of Ukraine and the Ukrainian-born population declaring Russian ethnicity.

[CamPat]

Finally Ukrainian PM Selenskij is ready to talk to Russia about Neutrality of Ukraine. Russia made a similar offer and claimed it had no intention to conquer Ukraine. Let's see if this is a quick way out. Hopefully !

[JohninDublin]

I was somewhat to see that there are large protests in many parts of Russia against the invasion. Normally, you would think that the people would get behind their gov in times of war. Of course, when they don't, that is usually an indication of how much the citizens really trust their gov. As is the practice in anti-gov protests in Russia, the peaceful demos were quickly disrupted by police with many arrests and people being carted off in vans.

During the meantime, Putin is telling he world, that he went into Ukraine to free the Ukrainians. I wonder when he is going to do something about freedom in Russia

[EdwardV]

Wow, Russia's foreign ministry spokesperson  just gave a unveiled threat to Finland and Sweden about joining NATO: 

"Finland and Sweden should not base their security damaging the security of other countries," Zakharova said during the press conference.

"Clearly [the] accession of Finland and Sweden into NATO, which is first and foremost a military alliance, would have serious military-political repercussions that would demand a response from our country," she said.

 

You can't make this stuff up. Of course the very fact there are Russian tanks in Ukraine would argue to join, not the opposite. As the saying goes: there is safety in numbers. Probably why they are now rethinking their previous position. This was always one of the expected side effects of a Russian invasion of Ukraine. It's also one of the reasons people weren't surprised when Finland picked the US F-35 over the Swedish Gripen a month ago. 

 

[vlad]

The old fox has cast his line out offering a delegation from the Ukraine Government to go to Minsk to discuss the ongoing situation in Ukraine. What do you think will happen as soon as the delegates from the Ukrainian government step foot in Belarus, Russias bed partner.

[vlad]

From fighting in the ring Multi Millionaire Vitali Klitzkow has donned his fatigues and is patroling the streets of kiev with his AK47 defending his city.

[BigHewer]

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[BigHewer]

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[KRLMRX]

8 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine

Extract: This community forms the largest single Russian diaspora in the world. In the 2001 Ukrainian census, 8,334,100 identified as ethnic Russians (17.3% of the population of Ukraine); this is the combined figure for persons originating from outside of Ukraine and the Ukrainian-born population declaring Russian ethnicity.

this is due to the fact that in Ukrainian and English there is no division into Russian (ethnicity) and ROssian (nationality). in that census, people were asked to identify themselves as residents of Russia. This was done on purpose to show that there are few Russians in Ukraine. And even in this case, 8 million citizens of Ukraine indicated that they were residents of a neighboring state. And by the way, in this census, 95.9% indicated that Russian is their native language for them.

In the 2021 survey, 41% identified themselves as Russians, about the same ratio has always been in Ukraine - half looked to the West, half to the East.

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

this is due to the fact that in Ukrainian and English there is no division into Russian (ethnicity) and ROssian (nationality). in that census, people were asked to identify themselves as residents of Russia. This was done on purpose to show that there are few Russians in Ukraine. And even in this case, 8 million citizens of Ukraine indicated that they were residents of a neighboring state. And by the way, in this census, 95.9% indicated that Russian is their native language for them.

In the 2021 survey, 41% identified themselves as Russians, about the same ratio has always been in Ukraine - half looked to the West, half to the East.

Nope.

In the 2021 consensus 17.3% identified as ethnic Russian.

 

[KRLMRX]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Nope.

In the 2021 consensus 17.3% identified as ethnic Russian.

Yep

 

Poll: 41% of Ukrainians consider themselves one people with the Russians, 55% do not agree with this

 July 27, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-57984025

 

 

[Pinetree]

10 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

it is not true.

Poll: 41% of Ukrainians consider themselves one people with the Russians, 55% do not agree with this

 July 27, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-57984025

well here is a thought experiment to ponder.

How many UK citizens consider themselves and term themselves, 'British', or consider themselves one of English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish?  I would bet a lot less than 50% would answer British.  Stats and polls can be adjusted to mean almost anything.

By the way, I never say that I am British; I am English and would answer to that.  

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

Yep

Poll: 41% of Ukrainians consider themselves one people with the Russians, 55% do not agree with this

 July 27, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/russian/news-57984025

Because they are all Slavs. 

Its like asking someone in the UK do they consider themselves the same as people who live in Germany. It proves nothing.

What does prove something is that only 17% consider themselves ethnic Russians. Thats probably a lot lower after Putins illegal invasion.

So in no way shape or form are you liberating them.

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

the irony is that Russian imperials say the same thing. and apparently Putin intends to do so.

militant hawks are the same everywhere. 

Independent Ukraine was very badly conceived and will remain a nightmare without the east / west language split however that is enacted. not “ hawkish” or “ imperialist” just basic sense. first step was Crimea/ Donetsk / Luhansk separations. 

An Unfree Russia was never going to accept a Western - allied whole Free Ukraine right on its border.

 

[Pinetree]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

What does prove something is that only 17% consider themselves ethnic Russians.

My paternal Grandparents were ethnically Russian Jews, forced out of their own country. What does that make them in a poll? Polls are idiocies, thought up to influence numb sculls, who can't think for themselves. 

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Because they are all Slavs. 

Its like asking someone in the UK do they consider themselves the same as people who live in Germany. It proves nothing.

What does prove something is that only 17% consider themselves ethnic Russians. Thats probably a lot lower after Putins illegal invasion.

So in no way shape or form are you liberating them.

DNA & History & Culture says Different. UK / Ireland has had a distinct separation in those terms from German Saxons for 1000 years. Not so Ukraine & Russia .Complex & Impossible to separate Russians & Ukrainians without east / west language division ( gets messy in middle !) .Free pro- west Ukrainian “opinions” aside.

Ukraine is not Taiwan (or U.K.) which being an island enjoys a clear natural free separation from same ethnic Chinese under CCP. 

[KRLMRX]

agree. it's not about the numbers. but it's still millions of people

Edited February 26, 2022 by KaptainRob
Quote deleted

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

DNA & History & Culture says Different. UK / Ireland has had a distinct separation in those terms from German Saxons for 1000 years. Not so Ukraine & Russia .Complex & Impossible to separate Russians & Ukrainians without east / west language division ( gets messy in middle !) .Free pro- west Ukrainian “opinions” aside.

Ukraine is not Taiwan (or U.K.) which being an island enjoys a clear natural free separation from same ethnic Chinese under CCP. 

Why do you think people in the UK are called Anglo Saxons? In England almost everyone is descended from those German tribes.

[Cabra]

Putin invaded a sovereign country and killed Ukrainians. That's all you need to know. It's a crime against humanity. Any whataboutism is irrelevant. This is about what Russia is doing to Ukraine at this very moment. Nothing more. Reprehensible on every level.

[Grumpish]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Why do you think people in the UK are called Anglo Saxons? In England almost everyone is descended from those German tribes.

Not quite - there may be a distinctly British character,  but we Brits really are the mongrels of Europe. Germanic, Gaelic, Celtic, Scandinavian, and French, amongst others over the millennia. It shows in the language,  as well.

[oldschooler]

14 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Why do you think people in the UK are called Anglo Saxons? In England almost everyone is descended from those German tribes.

Doesn’t change my post. Saxon invasions of Britain and so their mainland DNA additions to Britain ceased around 650. ALL Western Europe (after Rome collapse) became dominated by Germanic Tribes DNA. 
Getting Off Topic
 

[KomanderChicknNugget]

Weird to hear Putin lump America in as an evil Anglo-Saxon nation.  It started that way but today its got a whole lot more Hispanic, African, Asian and (gasp) Russian population.