News Forum - Provincial governors ordered to ramp up disease controls as Covid cases surge

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

For heavens sake. I’m trying to have a sensible conversation. Why are you so obtuse when people are trying to be reasonable? 

You know perfectly well what my point was  but typically, having lost the debate you chose to spin the point and hence claim you were right. My point was that if people didn’t vote for MP’s who behave in this patriarchal way, perhaps they would get the message that it’s unacceptable  however millions voted for such people and hence as the saying goes: People get the government they deserve .

Getting constantly personal really doesn't add anything if you're genuinely trying to have a rational debate, although evidently some (or at least one) thrives on it and it now seems to be par for the course for you. That's not having a "sensible conversation", it's just being petulant.

I simply disagree with your claim that "the majority of people see it as acceptable and normal" that "saying the words is all it takes".  That isn't spinning any point, it's simply disagreeing with what you said.

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Im perfectly aware how the election process works. Prayut was the leader of the Palang Pratchararh Party and hence voting for members of that party placed him in the position of PM. 

You don't seem to understand how the election process works at all. 

Prayut didn't become PM because he was leader of the PPP, which had less than a quarter of the votes and only 166 out of 500 seats, but because he had 249 out of the 250 Senate votes - all of whom he'd previously appointed himself.

[vlad]

Simple answer is if the thai Government acted at the start once the vaccine was available they would be the same as most European countries with most restrictions lifted. like today in the UK. We have accepted to live with covid all down to one factor, Most of the population are fully vaccinated even our Queen has been infected for the second time but she is carrying on with light duties thats how dangerouse Omicron is. If Anutin and Co would have done the same Thailand would now not be running around flapping about tighter restrictions your the one's to blame. 

[Stonker]

42 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Yes. Govt stupidly aping the English -speaking democracies by devolving central powers to regional parliaments. Ridiculous as Thailand is small, undemocratic and utterly uniform with zero prior history of provincial non- parliamentary governors making national level decisions. 

I'm not sure if it's being "stupid", or if it's trying to pass the buck for if / when things go pear-shaped.

I certainly don't support it, though, as the provinces are inter-dependent and control needs to be national to be effective - if, hypothetically and for the sake of argument, Phuket and Pattaya remove mask-wearing restrictions to appease the tourists that will affect the whole country and not just those provinces / areas and they can't just act as if they're in some sort of bubble.

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, vlad said:

Simple answer is if the thai Government acted at the start once the vaccine was available they would be the same as most European countries with most restrictions lifted. like today in the UK. We have accepted to live with covid all down to one factor, Most of the population are fully vaccinated even our Queen has been infected for the second time but she is carrying on with light duties thats how dangerouse Omicron is. If Anutin and Co would have done the same Thailand would now not be running around flapping about tighter restrictions your the one's to blame. 

You mean "the same" with ten times as many people dead or suffering from Long Covid, and ten times as many still dying?

I'm not sure that would go down too well .....

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Last time I checked, the point you were making was: 

The point I'm making is that in my view Thais don't think "saying the words is all it takes" and they don't see that as "acceptable and normal".

Actually "millions of Thais" DIDN'T "vote for Prayut".

He didn't stand for election.

Rather disappointing that you're evidently completely unaware of that.

Afraid Stonker has again on balance beaten me down ( sorry, “persuaded”) with facts, logic & rational conclusions, at least to point of being “unsure” over my own alternative fact- based rational view to now, with vax & Omicron both widespread, to just “let it rip” , as Covid restrictions are ineffective & causing too much damage to children, society, travel / tourism and small business.

[Stonker]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Afraid Stonker has again on balance beaten me down ( sorry, “persuaded”) with facts, logic & rational conclusions, at least to point of being “unsure” over my own alternative fact- based rational view to now, with vax & Omicron both widespread, to just “let it rip” , as Covid restrictions are ineffective & causing too much damage to children, society, travel / tourism and small business.

Actually I agree with you and many others about the pointlessness of many Covid restrictions, particularly broad brush European-style lockdowns, but Thailand has never had those type of restrictions.  The closest they've ever come was the night-time curfew, but even that was short-lived.

Agree with you absolutely about the damage to children from closing schools, and still closing sports facilities even now that most schools are open, too .

[vlad]

19 minutes ago, Stonker said:

You mean "the same" with ten times as many people dead or suffering from Long Covid, and ten times as many still dying?

I'm not sure that would go down too well .....

Yep we went through it but for us it's all over and we're back to normal accept it or carry on with restrictions damaging live's and the economy.

[oldschooler]

46 minutes ago, Stonker said:

You think they did, @King Cotton? Or are the 'rolling eyes' for that just out of habit now?

One adult /one voteDemocracy just doesn’t work in an uneducated monarch - worshipping undeveloped collectively -minded country like Thailand where most people focus solely on day to day survival & materialism, whose votes are easily bought with food subsidies, with only a few brave young activists seeking real democratic change, based upon proper govt, improved public institutions, non-governing monarchy, etc.

Previous self- interested civilian politicians all an absolute  disgrace, further proving unsuitability of democracy here, leaving military no choice but to take over to avoid chaos.

[Soidog]

32 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Getting constantly personal really doesn't add anything if you're genuinely trying to have a rational debate, although evidently some (or at least one) thrives on it and it now seems to be par for the course for you. That's not having a "sensible conversation", it's just being petulant.

I simply disagree with your claim that "the majority of people see it as acceptable and normal" that "saying the words is all it takes".  That isn't spinning any point, it's simply disagreeing with what you said.

You don't seem to understand how the election process works at all. 

Prayut didn't become PM because he was leader of the PPP, which had less than a quarter of the votes and only 166 out of 500 seats, but because he had 249 out of the 250 Senate votes - all of whom he'd previously appointed himself.

I know perfectly well how the system works in Thailand. You are simply choosing to split hairs. If you were Thai and voted for the PPP at the election, you knew perfectly well that Prayut would become the PM. 
 

I’m not being personal Stonker, I don’t know anything about you. I’m simply pointing out and asking you not to be so silly and nitpicking. As you have done a couple of times now in relation to my point. You have to please stop taking the literal words people post and understand the point they are making. Dissecting words or terms is fine as long as you take on board the overall point. You chose to disagree, not by countering the overall point, but by picking people up on the small details. This is not a court of law. It’s a casual forum where people make points. They don’t get their post fact checked by a team of lawyers. People could do the same with your posts but simply don’t stoop to such silliness. 
 

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, JJJ said:

I’m sorry there is nothing that can prevent you from getting covid except probably having covid. There’s a difference between delay and prevention.  Closing borders, closing businesses caused enormous harm with negligible benefits. 

Queen Elizabeth has probably had more resources expended to prevent her from getting infected and she still got covid.  And in all likelihood she’ll be fine. 

That’s why people need to keep highlighting the costs and reminding people of the true risks. 

On hospitalization, I agree it’s not as bad as before but there is still over hospitalization and isolation. Foreigners living in Thailand aren’t allowed to home isolate either.  For no or more symptoms, the default should be home isolation. I understand voluntary community isolation for multi generation households. But for the most part the “hospitel” boondoggle should be ended.  
 

 Western Vax does (mostly) prevent Covid cell infection. where it doesn’t, the vax - enhanced cells fight and usually destroy Covid. Queen is 95 ffs with her immune system on its last legs only serious cases put in hospital.omicron is super- contagious so everywhere ,less lethal so little point in trying to control it now apart from vax improving natural immunity. 

[vlad]

This thread is about restrictions and preventing the spread of the disease it is not about voting. Can we stay on topic and discuss why and how Thailand can go forward in controlling the Covid rates. It's no good nitpicking otherwise the thread will go the same way as most do.

[oldschooler]

26 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Actually I agree with you and many others about the pointlessness of many Covid restrictions, particularly broad brush European-style lockdowns, but Thailand has never had those type of restrictions.  The closest they've ever come was the night-time curfew, but even that was short-lived.

Agree with you absolutely about the damage to children from closing schools, and still closing sports facilities even now that most schools are open, too .

Neil Oliver GB News segment brilliantly nailed down the Children damage.

He’s also good on Sturgeon’s Covid Tyranny & Political Leaders’ Failure / Cowardice…….TV Historian before switching to Political  commentator.

[vlad]

In one oldschooler. We can all say the Thai government should have done this or did that but in my opinion, they ballsed it up ignoring advice on purchasing the best Vaccine at the beginning. Two years ago they were advised how to combat it but they ignored it. The simple answer is as I said before they should have started vaccinations with what the west was using not a vaccine that was ineffective to fight Delta. Like it or not we vaccinated and protected ourselves the thai government did not and as a result, the HMS Thailand is running around without a rudder floundering.

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Neil Oliver GB News segment brilliantly nailed down the Children damage.

He’s also good on Sturgeon’s Covid Tyranny & Political Leaders’ Failure / Cowardice…….TV Historian before switching to Political  commentator.

Neil Oliver was an archeologist not a historian. Many of his programs are factually wrong and get torn apart by real experts.

His anti Sturgeon comments are due to his rabid British Nationalism.

Still, very few in Scotland actually listen to him and even fewer watch GB News so a non event really.

[Manu]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

Then I don't know what you meant, unless it was to just give up trying to do anything as it's all 'too difficult'.

Well you do not know what I meant, but you keep going...and on and on. The rest of your comment (which I admit I went through very quickly) is just scary. While interesting at first I found it amusing to have a respectful debat with you, it then eventually became annoying and eventually I stopped bothering to try having any debat with you (not sure why you started it again this morning, but then my bad for answering although you would obviously not understand "what I meant"). Now you just sound crazy. And I mean pathologically. And I am not even trying to be funny here, honestly. Luckily in the world, some leaders came back to rationality, Boris Johnson in England (and god knows he is not my cup of tea), in Denmark, in Spain, etc... Unfortunately some seem to have turned into something mad too, like Trudeau in Canada, Macron in France, etc... So I guess, this "crisis" has created madness at all levels of the populations from top to bottom. The world of Trudeau and Macron are not my world, and it seems here and generally everywhere now, for most people now too cause we just had enough and it is time to move on. There is nothing to wait for than living life now, not tomorrow, not in a vague future that your world seems to be offering as only option. The ones who are scared to live life are free to stay home forever, you will be safe there. The others have had enough, the sooner you understand that, the sooner you might get back to some kind of sanity. As I said, why do you bother since you will be safe at home, what will happen to us is none of your business.

PS: just heard in the news while writing this: Israel opens its borders to non-vaccinated on 1 March. See Stonker, time to move on!!

[oldschooler]

53 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Neil Oliver was an archeologist not a historian. Many of his programs are factually wrong and get torn apart by real experts.

His anti Sturgeon comments are due to his rabid British Nationalism.

Still, very few in Scotland actually listen to him and even fewer watch GB News so a non event really.

Hmmm … highly doubt that but will check out his reputation  …..but so far he makes complete sense to me… “rabid” British nationalism is only about not liking foreigners settling in UK & confined to discredited far right fascists like BNP with say 20k followers… SNP only about hating English, as device to attain more power , so also fascist & discredited with everything clearly much worse under SNP yet has 1.3 million voters for its mediocre failed provincial govt. & whose “rabid” ravings make absolutely zero sense to me…as an aside I’m half Scottish

so aren’t all rational people “anti- Sturgeon”? who DO Scots listen to them ? Sturgeon aside ….

utterly unconcerned about media or commentator ratings. Care only if they speak truth and expose lies….or not.

Portillo, Farage, Oliver, Foster, Mogg  are real (imperfect/ conservative) patriot  heavyweights who I would trust all day long over the socialist lightweight >unidentified slang term< dimwits wheeled out daily by BBC, Guardian , CNN & SNP.

[Faz]

3 hours ago, JJJ said:

Foreigners living in Thailand aren’t allowed to home isolate either.

That simply isn't true. Foreigners as well as Thais are told to isolate at home if testing positive and asymptomatic.

[oldschooler]

27 minutes ago, Manu said:

Well you do not know what I meant, but you keep going...and on and on. The rest of your comment (which I admit I went through very quickly) is just scary. While interesting at first I found it amusing to have a respectful debat with you, it then eventually became annoying and eventually I stopped bothering to try having any debat with you (not sure why you started it again this morning, but then my bad for answering although you would obviously not understand "what I meant"). Now you just sound crazy. And I mean pathologically. And I am not even trying to be funny here, honestly. Luckily in the world, some leaders came back to rationality, Boris Johnson in England (and god knows he is not my cup of tea), in Denmark, in Spain, etc... Unfortunately some seem to have turned into something mad too, like Trudeau in Canada, Macron in France, etc... So I guess, this "crisis" has created madness at all levels of the populations from top to bottom. The world of Trudeau and Macron are not my world, and it seems here and generally everywhere now, for most people now too cause we just had enough and it is time to move on. There is nothing to wait for than living life now, not tomorrow, not in a vague future that your world seems to be offering as only option. The ones who are scared to live life are free to stay home forever, you will be safe there. The others have had enough, the sooner you understand that, the sooner you might get back to some kind of sanity. As I said, why do you bother since you will be safe at home, what will happen to us is none of your business.

PS: just heard in the news while writing this: Israel opens its borders to non-vaccinated on 1 March. See Stonker, time to move on!!

suspect unvaccinated entering Israel might total a few hundred hence permitted. Israel not renowned as destination for the irrational stupid. …..

what is “my bad” ? “ my mistake” ? see this strange phrase often here…. like use & overuse of “very”.

agree on Treadeau and similar ….petty >unidentified slang term< socialist lightweight tyrants all over the West now …. local - region- national ….but all elected & re-elected by their dumb voters . True also that some more conservative countries trying to reverse the mass hysteria…..

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Hmmm … highly doubt that but will check out his reputation  …..but so far he makes complete sense to me… “rabid” British nationalism is only about not liking foreigners settling in UK & confined to discredited far right fascists like BNP with say 20k followers… SNP only about hating English, as device to attain more power , so also fascist & discredited with everything clearly much worse under SNP yet has 1.3 million voters for its mediocre failed provincial govt. & whose “rabid” ravings make absolutely zero sense to me…as an aside I’m half Scottish

so aren’t all rational people “anti- Sturgeon”? who DO Scots listen to them ? Sturgeon aside ….

utterly unconcerned about media or commentator ratings. Care only if they speak truth and expose lies….or not.

Portillo, Farage, Oliver, Foster, Mogg  are real (imperfect/ conservative) patriot  heavyweights who I would trust all day long over the socialist lightweight >unidentified slang term< dimwits wheeled out daily by BBC, Guardian , CNN & SNP.

Please give examples of the SNP hating the English. Rabid British Nationalism is what the Unionists are all about. If there is any hatred being put about its by them against people who want to see Scotland as an independent country.

Sturgeon is very popular in Scotland despite the MSM who do everything they can to vilify her while interviewing the very same people you hold up as being patriots. Kind of Schrödinger's cat thing you got going on there.

[JJJ]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 Western Vax does (mostly) prevent Covid cell infection. where it doesn’t, the vax - enhanced cells fight and usually destroy Covid. Queen is 95 ffs with her immune system on its last legs only serious cases put in hospital.omicron is super- contagious so everywhere ,less lethal so little point in trying to control it now apart from vax improving natural immunity. 

Right. I don’t mean the vaccine isn’t effective. But it’s not particularly good at preventing infection. 

My main point is avoidance doesn’t provide a persistent protection. If some people want to be hermits let them be and the rest of us move on. 

[JJJ]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

That simply isn't true. Foreigners as well as Thais are told to isolate at home if testing positive and asymptomatic.

That’s not what I have known to happen with my friends. If you test positive at a hospital or another official source you will not be permitted home isolation. 
If you self test positive they will say don’t come to the hospital if you don’t have symptoms and you have never “officially” tested positive. 
These are just anecdotes. Interested to know others? 

[LoongFred]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

They can limit travel, both within and to / from their province, and mandate testing of arrivals from other provinces, minimising the spread from outside.

They can limit social and sports activities, such as school sports which some currently do.

They can keep bars closed.

Mandate testing.

Keep a mask mandate, as all do and pretty much all Thais support.

In my view this should all be mandated centrally, not by the provinces, and it's just passing on the responsibility and any 'blame', but that doesn't mean there are no options other than waving a white flag.

Masks are misunderstood.  I'd like to explain:

Respitory germs are spread by aerosols inches air but also by contact. Masks might be marginally effective in containing aerosols but fairly effective in preventing contact transmission. People frequently touch their noses unconsciously which promotes transmission to one's hands. Your hands than complete thee process to someone else else. With the mask I'm place the nose to hand transfer doesn't take place. Add to that the frequent availability of hand sanitizers.  So masks reduce covid transmission by lessening aerosols plus hand transfers. 

The type of mask might help reduce aerosols transmission differently, but any mask that covers your nose should reduce transfer of the virus or other germs.

Some people say that Masks should only be mandated indoors, but nose to hand to *** would still be possible.

Wash or sanitize frequently could make a difference.

[LoongFred]

1 minute ago, LoongFred said:

Masks are misunderstood.  I'd like to explain:

Respitory germs are spread by aerosols inches air but also by contact. Masks might be marginally effective in containing aerosols but fairly effective in preventing contact transmission. People frequently touch their noses unconsciously which promotes transmission to one's hands. Your hands than complete thee process to someone else else. With the mask I'm place the nose to hand transfer doesn't take place. Add to that the frequent availability of hand sanitizers.  So masks reduce covid transmission by lessening aerosols plus hand transfers. 

The type of mask might help reduce aerosols transmission differently, but any mask that covers your nose should reduce transfer of the virus or other germs.

Some people say that Masks should only be mandated indoors, but nose to hand to *** would still be possible.

Wash or sanitize frequently could make a difference.

I'm against relaxing restriction until we have readily available therapeutics.  Otherwise it will go on and on. 

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, vlad said:

Yep we went through it but for us it's all over and we're back to normal accept it or carry on with restrictions damaging live's and the economy.

You say that as if it's past tense - how can it be "all over and back to normal" when you still have ten times as many people dying from Covid every day as Thailand, and as many as you had dying for most of last year ???

[LoongFred]

7 hours ago, Manu said:

I am aware of all this, this is not what I meant. If they put all these restrictions, for how long? 2, 3, 4 weeks? And then what? And then the virus will get back, for what has not been coming anyway regardless of restrictions, it is just postponing the inevitable. How long is it humanly possible to live like that? We are not in March 2020 anymore, as many european countries are now showing, it is time to move on.

Until there are effective therapeutics.  The AIDS epidemic was out of control but  now we have effective affordable  treatments and we rarely hear about it. I think covid will be similar, but it could take a while.