News Forum - Provincial governors ordered to ramp up disease controls as Covid cases surge

[Thaiger]

Bangkok has ordered all provinces to ramp up their Covid-19 prevention measures as infections continue to surge across the kingdom. The Bangkok Post reports that Sutthipong Chucharoen, a senior official at the Interior Ministry, has instructed all provinces to up their game when it comes to curbing the spread of the virus. Sutthipong says all officials, from village heads to provincial governors, must come together to monitor the infection rate in their provinces, particularly those that border neighbouring countries. The order was issued yesterday, after daily new infections climbed for the sixth day in a row. The government wants provincial […]

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[Cabra]

This pretty much puts the damper on any hopes Thailand will reduce travel restrictions anytime soon.

[Manu]

2 minutes ago, Cabra said:

This pretty much puts the damper on any hopes Thailand will reduce travel restrictions anytime soon.

Unfortunately (and annoyingly), you are probably right.

Quote

Bangkok has ordered all provinces to ramp up their Covid-19 prevention measures as infections continue to surge across the kingdom.

And what exactly are they supposed to do?

[Cabra]

1 minute ago, Manu said:

And what exactly are they supposed to do?

What they usually do, unfortunately, make everyone more miserable.

[ThaiEyes]

If the governors are able to handle it, what the hell do they need an emergency decree looming over everyone?

[Soidog]

22 minutes ago, Manu said:

And what exactly are they supposed to do?

Exactly.  It always amazes me how these statements are made. It’s the same at Songkran. They come with comments such as. “The PM has ordered all governors to help and protect the people travelling”. WTF does that mean. It’s typical patriarchy and they feel saying the words is all it takes. The sad part is that the majority of people see it as acceptable and normal.  

[Stonker]

11 minutes ago, ThaiEyes said:

If the governors are able to handle it, what the hell do they need an emergency decree looming over everyone?

Because the emergency decree gives the authority for whatever the governors can do - without it their authority is limited to their power under the CDA.

[Stonker]

29 minutes ago, Manu said:

And what exactly are they supposed to do?

They can limit travel, both within and to / from their province, and mandate testing of arrivals from other provinces, minimising the spread from outside.

They can limit social and sports activities, such as school sports which some currently do.

They can keep bars closed.

Mandate testing.

Keep a mask mandate, as all do and pretty much all Thais support.

In my view this should all be mandated centrally, not by the provinces, and it's just passing on the responsibility and any 'blame', but that doesn't mean there are no options other than waving a white flag.

[Stonker]

10 minutes ago, Soidog said:

The sad part is that the majority of people see it as acceptable and normal

I don't know any Thais (or actually anyone at all) who sees it that way.

All those I know see it as a failure of central / national government to take responsibility, passing the buck to the provinces when any steps need to be national and co-ordinated to be effective.

[Manu]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

They can limit travel, both within and to / from their province, and mandate testing of arrivals from other provinces, minimising the spread from outside.

They can limit social and sports activities, such as school sports which some currently do.

They can keep bars closed.

Mandate testing.

Keep a mask mandate, as all do and pretty much all Thais support.

 

I am aware of all this, this is not what I meant. If they put all these restrictions, for how long? 2, 3, 4 weeks? And then what? And then the virus will get back, for what has not been coming anyway regardless of restrictions, it is just postponing the inevitable. How long is it humanly possible to live like that? We are not in March 2020 anymore, as many european countries are now showing, it is time to move on.

[Stonker]

47 minutes ago, Cabra said:

This pretty much puts the damper on any hopes Thailand will reduce travel restrictions anytime soon.

Let's hope so, as unlimited and untested travel is the last thing anyone needs if transmission is to be minimised, both internationally and nationally - the former encourages the latter, for a limited return.

[Soidog]

5 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I don't know any Thais (or actually anyone at all) who sees it that way.

Last time I checked Prayut and other members of government such as Anutin who come out with these statements were Thai. In addition, millions of people (millions of Thais) voted for Prayut. They didn’t have to. 

[Soidog]

4 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Let's hope so, as unlimited and untested travel is the last thing anyone needs if transmission is to be minimised, both internationally and nationally - the former encourages the latter, for a limited return.

For how long then? I totally agree that limiting travel etc curbs the spread of the virus.  This was necessary when there were more dangerous strains and the population; particularly the elderly and vulnerable were unvaccinated. But that’s not the case now. If they continue to limit travel then yes, the number of cases will remain low. Then when they commence travel the numbers will rise. What then? The world and in particular Thailand can’t keep living like this in perpetuity. 

[JJJ]

5 minutes ago, Manu said:

I am aware of all this, this is not what I meant. If they put all these restrictions, for how long? 2, 3, 4 weeks? And then what? And then the virus will get back, for what has not been coming anyway regardless of restrictions, it is just postponing the inevitable. How long is it humanly possible to live like that? We are not in March 2020 anymore, as many european countries are now showing, it is time to move on.

Exactly. Measures can help slow spread (but not very good at preventing death). They don’t prevent infection now or in the future. If there are adequate resources and mild symptoms for most, then does the benefit outweigh the significant costs? Remember for those “nightlife” businesses that follow the rules, they have now been closed for almost one year. These are lives and costs too. 
Now is the time to reform the hospitalization and isolation rules as Thailand continues to over hospitalize infections. Save the resources for those who actually need it. 

[Manu]

Just now, Soidog said:

For how long then? I totally agree that limiting travel etc curbs the spread of the virus.  This was necessary when there were more dangerous strains and the population; particularly the elderly and vulnerable were unvaccinated. But that’s not the case now. If they continue to limit travel then yes, the number of cases will remain low. Then when they commence travel the numbers will rise. What then? The world and in particular Thailand can’t keep living like this in perpetuity. 

As I said before, when rationality is definitely gone, it is replaced by fanatism. You cannot, ever, reverse the process. A fanatic always stays one.

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, Manu said:

I am aware of all this, this is not what I meant.

Then I don't know what you meant, unless it was to just give up trying to do anything as it's all 'too difficult'.

21 minutes ago, Manu said:

If they put all these restrictions, for how long? 2, 3, 4 weeks? And then what?

For as long as it takes for more people to be effectively vaccinated, which can't be speeded up as not only are vaccine supplies limited but time restrictions between doses apply.

... and then hopefully there will be better and more effective vaccines.

9 minutes ago, Manu said:

And then the virus will get back, for what has not been coming anyway regardless of restrictions, it is just postponing the inevitable.

So what's your alternative? Do nothing, accept what you see as "inevitable" and let  people suffer and die when it can be avoided if people work together?

Sorry, but I find that rather a disappointingly sad and selfish attitude and a poor reflection on humanity.

23 minutes ago, Manu said:

How long is it humanly possible to live like that?

For some, and evidently some cultures, as long as it takes with the main restriction being children and their schooling and social and sporting development.

For others, and evidently other cultures, as long as they can live without their bars and holidays.

33 minutes ago, Manu said:

We are not in March 2020 anymore, as many european countries are now showing, it is time to move on.

No, it's two years on from March 2020 and the one that's become clear since then is that apart from developing vaccines (and hoarding them) "european countries" have generally done everything wrong that they could have done about Covid, at every level:

unnecessary and totally ineffective lockdowns that weren't targeted and achieved nothing apart from resentment and inconvenience;

mass testing of the wrong people that ignored those who needed to be tested in favour of those who wanted to be;

ineffective border controls, imposed too little and too late, poorly enforced;

ineffective quarantine and isolation mandates, largely left up to individuals without checks or supervision;

poor mask wearing policies, taken up too late, resented by individuals as they either didn't understand about protecting others or didn't care.

Given everything "european countries" have got so badly wrong so far, and the all too clear continuing death toll and serious cases, hospitalisations and Long Covid, giving up as they have is not the way to "move on".

 

[Stonker]

51 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Last time I checked Prayut and other members of government such as Anutin who come out with these statements were Thai. 

Last time I checked, the point you were making was: 

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

It’s typical patriarchy and they feel saying the words is all it takes. The sad part is that the majority of people see it as acceptable and normal. 

The point I'm making is that in my view Thais don't think "saying the words is all it takes" and they don't see that as "acceptable and normal".

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

In addition, millions of people (millions of Thais) voted for Prayut. They didn’t have to. 

Actually "millions of Thais" DIDN'T "vote for Prayut".

He didn't stand for election.

Rather disappointing that you're evidently completely unaware of that.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, JJJ said:

Measures can help slow spread (but not very good at preventing death). They don’t prevent infection now or in the future.

Sorry, but that's simply wrong.

The measures ARE "very good at preventing death".  If you don't catch Covid because the spread has been slowed, you can't die from it - that's pretty basic.

... and they DO "prevent infection" - that's why they "help slow spread", as you just said yourself.

1 hour ago, JJJ said:

Now is the time to reform the hospitalization and isolation rules as Thailand continues to over hospitalize infections. Save the resources for those who actually need it. 

I don't know if you've not been in Thailand for the last year or just not keeping yourself updated with the reforms to "the hospitalization and isolation rules", but they've changed drastically from the 'old days' when anyone infected with Covid was hospitalized, via anyone infected was isolated in a field hospital.

The resources ARE being used "for those who actually need it", and there are currently adequate resources for them, whether it's hospitals or quarantine.  The vast majority of quarantine is now done at home, with those who can't quarantine or isolate at home being quarantined in local quarantine centres at district level, and they currently have adequate capacity. Hospitalization is now kept for those "who actually need it", and again there is currently adequate capacity.

As far as "hospitalization and isolation" go, there are currently adequate resources and they're not being over-stretched.

[Soidog]

34 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Last time I checked, the point you were making was: 

The point I'm making is that in my view Thais don't think "saying the words is all it takes" and they don't see that as "acceptable and normal".

Actually "millions of Thais" DIDN'T "vote for Prayut".

He didn't stand for election.

Rather disappointing that you're evidently completely unaware of that.

For heavens sake. I’m trying to have a sensible conversation. Why are you so obtuse when people are trying to be reasonable? 

You know perfectly well what my point was  but typically, having lost the debate you chose to spin the point and hence claim you were right. My point was that if people didn’t vote for MP’s who behave in this patriarchal way, perhaps they would get the message that it’s unacceptable  however millions voted for such people and hence as the saying goes: People get the government they deserve  

Im perfectly aware how the election process works. Prayut was the leader of the Palang Pratchararh Party and hence voting for members of that party placed him in the position of PM. 
 

Please Stonker. Can you just try to be more reasonable with your posts. You clearly have the time to spend and you are no one’s fool. You can do better than that I’m sure. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

I don't know any Thais (or actually anyone at all) who sees it that way.

All those I know see it as a failure of central / national government to take responsibility, passing the buck to the provinces when any steps need to be national and co-ordinated to be effective.

Yes. Govt stupidly aping the English -speaking democracies by devolving central powers to regional parliaments. Ridiculous as Thailand is small, undemocratic and utterly uniform with zero prior history of provincial non- parliamentary governors making national level decisions. 

[JJJ]

9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, but that's simply wrong.

The measures ARE "very good at preventing death".  If you don't catch Covid because the spread has been slowed, you can't die from it - that's pretty basic.

... and they DO "prevent infection" - that's why they "help slow spread", as you just said yourself.

I don't know if you've not been in Thailand for the last year or just not keeping yourself updated with the reforms to "the hospitalization and isolation rules", but they've changed drastically from the 'old days' when anyone infected with Covid was hospitalized, via anyone infected was isolated in a field hospital.

The resources ARE being used "for those who actually need it", and there are currently adequate resources for them, whether it's hospitals or quarantine.  The vast majority of quarantine is now done at home, with those who can't quarantine or isolate at home being quarantined in local quarantine centres at district level, and they currently have adequate capacity. Hospitalization is now kept for those "who actually need it", and again there is currently adequate capacity.

As far as "hospitalization and isolation" go, there are currently adequate resources and they're not being over-stretched.

I’m sorry there is nothing that can prevent you from getting covid except probably having covid. There’s a difference between delay and prevention.  Closing borders, closing businesses caused enormous harm with negligible benefits. 

Queen Elizabeth has probably had more resources expended to prevent her from getting infected and she still got covid.  And in all likelihood she’ll be fine. 

That’s why people need to keep highlighting the costs and reminding people of the true risks. 

On hospitalization, I agree it’s not as bad as before but there is still over hospitalization and isolation. Foreigners living in Thailand aren’t allowed to home isolate either.  For no or more symptoms, the default should be home isolation. I understand voluntary community isolation for multi generation households. But for the most part the “hospitel” boondoggle should be ended.  
 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Actually "millions of Thais" DIDN'T "vote for Prayut".

He didn't stand for election.

Rather disappointing that you're evidently completely unaware of that.

You think they did, @King Cotton? Or are the 'rolling eyes' for that just out of habit now?

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

As I said before, when rationality is definitely gone, it is replaced by fanatism. You cannot, ever, reverse the process. A fanatic always stays one.

Seeing something like this in Canada with petty tyrant Trudeau, encouraged by people accepting govt. Covid tyranny then voting him back in power, has effectively suspended democracy with ludicrous trucker- pretext Emergency Powers not even invoked for WW2 there ! Sturgeon in Scotland has just extended Covid powers by six months when over the “border” England moving to lift restrictions now…… Same pattern of petty tyranny continues in AUS & NZ.

[oldschooler]

9 minutes ago, JJJ said:

I’m sorry there is nothing that can prevent you from getting covid except probably having covid. There’s a difference between delay and prevention.  Closing borders, closing businesses caused enormous harm with negligible benefits. 

Queen Elizabeth has probably had more resources expended to prevent her from getting infected and she still got covid.  And in all likelihood she’ll be fine. 

That’s why people need to keep highlighting the costs and reminding people of the true risks. 

On hospitalization, I agree it’s not as bad as before but there is still over hospitalization and isolation. Foreigners living in Thailand aren’t allowed to home isolate either.  For no or more symptoms, the default should be home isolation. I understand voluntary community isolation for multi generation households. But for the most part the “hospitel” boondoggle should be ended.  
 

No. Home isolation is Govt hospital policy for all in Thailand for non- serious cases. reconfirmed that personally & directly last week at top provincial hospital…..

[Stonker]

8 minutes ago, JJJ said:

I’m sorry there is nothing that can prevent you from getting covid except probably having covid. There’s a difference between delay and prevention. 

Sorry, but that's simply wrong.

If you're not in contact with anyone who has Covid, you can't catch it.  It's physically impossible.

10 minutes ago, JJJ said:

Closing borders, closing businesses caused enormous harm with negligible benefits. 

Again, that's simply not correct - even the recent study mainly by Prof Hanke, who is one of the most outspoken critics of lockdowns and border closures and any restrictions that damage the economy, found that "closing non-essential businesses was estimated to have lowered mortality by about 10.6 per cent, a fall largely driven by closing drinking establishments".

"“Imperial College London also estimated that lockdowns saved about 3.1 million lives in Europe, including 470,000 in Britain”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/02/trusting-people-do-right-thing-saved-lives-covid-lockdowns/