Oh no! Not the Y-word.

[JohninDublin]

Just so that people know what I'm talking about here is a link: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/12538082/tottenham-on-fans-use-of-y-word-its-time-to-move-on

To give it a bit more depth, this is about the use of the word "Yid", a word frequently, but not always used pejoratively referring to Jews. Recently, the media have given it "N word" status in that you can only refer to it by it's initial. My view on that status is that we are becoming far too precious with political correctness, and that is not to say that I am in favour of the word. 

Watching TV today, I get so annoyed when I hear a bleep over the word in so many older pictures. There are a couple of reasons for this. The first time I ever heard the bleep, was watching "The Dambusters" for about the 15th time on TV. Guy Gibson who led the raid on the dams, had a black Labrador named "N". It was agreed, that if the raid was successful, they would send the dog's name back in morse. So there is a scene in the film when everyone is at the airbase waiting to hear if the raid has been successful. Suddenly there is a burst of morse, and the radio man says something like, "It's Bleep sir", then getting quite emotional he says, "It is Bleep sir" twice and a cheer goes up to celebrate the success of the raid.

Couple of things about that particular clip. First is that it was of it's time. I don't condone the use of the word, but it was from a time when use of that word was not frowned upon. The second is that Gibson went onto get a VIctoria Cross, the highest award for bravery in the then British Empire. If Gibson was a racist, should we not know about it.

More recently, I am watching films, particularly US, set mainly in the Deep South, where the word was used frequently. The word is used invariably used by the "bad guys". One example was "In The Heat Of The Night". I know these were only actors, but to me hearing the word spoken told me all I really needed to know about that character, and it was nothing nice, Just my view, but bleeping the N word goes some way to sanitising the character. I want people to see and understand how nasty and ignorant this character is.

But turning back to Spurs, the use of the word "Yid" started gaining currency in the mid-70's due to the childishness of rival fans, looking for some way to get a rise out of Spurs fans. Spurs is close to the Stamford Hill/South Totteham areas which both have large Jewish communities, and rival fans started suggesting that if you supported Spurs you must be a Jew. This was in a time, when far right parties were trying to succeed where Hitler had failed, and Jews, Asians and Blacks were all to be deported if they ever came to power. Calling someone a Yid, was meant to be an ethno-racist slur. However, it backfired, and Spurs supporters took the view that it was a badge of honour to defend their fellow supporters who were Jews and bit by bit, the chants of "Yid Army" grew louder.

In the 1970's, Spurs got it's first Jewish owner, the disastrous Irving Scholar who almost bankrupted the club. He did not complain about the chants, and being Jewish, he would have been entitled to. He ended up selling out to Alan Sugar, another Jew. Still no complaints. On a side note, Sugar is still looked on poorly for his tenure, but I am so grateful to him because he saved us from being taken over by the crook Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine, for those who don't know the name. Maxwell was yet another Jew. Sugar, then sold to ENIC group, which is owned by Joe Lewis, and Spurs are now chaired by Daniel Levy. Both are Jews and still no complaints.

I mention this because I've always thought that if anyone was entitled to be offended, it would be the stream of Jewish owners.

Then enter David Baddiel, a so-called comedian whose career did not exactly flourish when his regular partner, Frank Skinner, dissolved the act. Baddiel is a Chelsea season ticket owner and a Jew, He took offence at the chants of Yid Army and brought it to the forefront in the "Kick it Out" anti-racism campaign. I don't say that he was not entitled to be offended, but before he became active it was a regular event for his fellow Chelsea fans to sing  "charming" little ditty, based on the song, "Ossie's Dream". The actual words were, "Spurs are on their way to Wembley. Tottenham's going to do it again".

The Chelsea fan's version became, "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz. Hitler's going to gas them again". In addition they would often hiss to simulate the noise of a gas pipe being turned on. Somehow Baddiel could never bring himself to comment on this nastiness. But to be fair, this was also common place at West Ham. Ironically, both clubs have major Jewish shareholders. Chelsea is owned 100% by Roman Abramovich and former Porn Baron, David Gold at WHU. Even Chelsea having a Jewish manager, Avram Grant, did not stop this song. On more than one occasion, Benayoun, an Israeli, was playing for West Ham when these things were taking place.

I remember seeing an interview with a football fan from Leeds who admitted that he would often target black players from opposing teams for racial abuse. He said he slowly became aware of how stupid, it was when he looked at his own team and regularly see several such players playing for his own team. No such chance of an Epiphany moment at either London team I think.

But the debate about the "Y-word" has been going on for several years now as a result of Baddiel, and every so often, you will see letters to the Jewish Chronicle on the issue. More often than not, they've expressed their gratitude that Spurs fans are "supportive". but there are contrary views too. 

Personally, I've always been uncomfortable with the word, but I avoid taking offence on behalf others who are not necessarily offended. That would be patronising. I've always felt that the lead on this should come from the likes of the club owners, and it should be done in consultation with the Jewish community. I think Levy, Abramovich and Gold should tell all of Jewry, why they allow these things to take place at the clubs they own. Then perhaps this matter can be dealt with definitively. 

 

[Fluke]

52 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

The Chelsea fan's version became, "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz. Hitler's going to gas them again". In addition they would often hiss to simulate the noise of a gas pipe being turned on. Somehow Baddiel could never bring himself to comment on this nastiness.

In this video interview with David Baddiel ,in 2011 he made a film campaigning against that song being sung by Chelsea fans and fans of any other Clubs .

  Chelsea asked/told fans to stop using that word years ago and the hissing stopped many years ago , from a different era 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-13089242

[Fluke]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

But turning back to Spurs, the use of the word "Yid" started gaining currency in the mid-70's due to the childishness of rival fans, looking for some way to get a rise out of Spurs fans. Spurs is close to the Stamford Hill/South Totteham areas which both have large Jewish communities, and rival fans started suggesting that if you supported Spurs you must be a Jew. This was in a time, when far right parties were trying to succeed where Hitler had failed, and Jews, Asians and Blacks were all to be deported if they ever came to power. Calling someone a Yid, was meant to be an ethno-racist slur. However, it backfired, and Spurs supporters took the view that it was a badge of honour to defend their fellow supporters who were Jews and bit by bit, the chants of "Yid Army" grew louder.

Now that opposition fans have stopped using that as a term of abuse , Tottenham fans can now also drop the word from their hymn sheet , maybe Tottenham fans could also stop the homophobic abuse their fans sing ?

[SteveM]

I'm not criticizing your very good post, but it ironic that you mention Mel Gibson not being a racist. Well, maybe regarding black people, but it is widely know that he is a racist regarding Jewish people. So bad in fact that most of Hollywood will not work with him anymore. 

I've always enjoyed his movies. I wish we didn't know what actors are like in real life. Some of them are real assholes and I don't really need to know that to still enjoy their movies. Steven Segal is another that comes to mind, oh my.

[AussieBob]

Gotta agree with you John - many people are sick of the PC culture, and hate that it is rewriting history (and movies).  I am being deliberately troublesome, but it always seems to me to be hypocritical that one type of person can use the N word to another, but another type cannot.  I remember when Jackie Chan in one movie, echoed what his 'partner' had said by saying: 'yeh, so how are you doing N?'  

[poohy]

i was once lambasted a few years ago by my sister for saying i was going for a "chinky'

for the non English ones "chinky" slang Chinese takeway shop used for ions! 

[Fluke]

29 minutes ago, poohy said:

i was once lambasted a few years ago by my sister for saying i was going for a "chinky'

for the non English ones "chinky" slang Chinese takeway shop used for ions! 

Maybe have been concerned about your diet ?

[Fluke]

46 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Gotta agree with you John - many people are sick of the PC culture, and hate that it is rewriting history (and movies).  I am being deliberately troublesome, but it always seems to me to be hypocritical that one type of person can use the N word to another, but another type cannot.  I remember when Jackie Chan in one movie, echoed what his 'partner' had said by saying: 'yeh, so how are you doing N?'  

Reason being is that Black people use to word to describe a person , like n****r means a really bad terrible  person and they use it to describe one person , White people tend to use it to describe the whole Black race , suggesting that ALL Black people are bad terrible people , hence the difference 

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, poohy said:

i was once lambasted a few years ago by my sister for saying i was going for a "chinky'

for the non English ones "chinky" slang Chinese takeway shop used for ions! 

It was used by ions for white people

 

So why can't we keep using it!

It's not fair!

 

We are paying them money, so we can all them whatever we want!

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, poohy said:

i was once lambasted a few years ago by my sister for saying i was going for a "chinky'

for the non English ones "chinky" slang Chinese takeway shop used for ions! 

I confess to having used that work quite frequently, but then I married a Japanese woman, and have not used it since. I did 21 years as a cabbie, and was often asked to bring passengers to the "chinky". I never took offence at this, because I never saw any ill intent in it's use on these occasions. 

However, one of the occupational hazards of being a white cab driver in the UK, is that the racists think you are "one of them". As part of my career as a cabbie, I spent 10 years in Cambridge. On one occasion I picked up four white men to take them to the Conservative Club during which time it was impossible not to hear to hear the racist exchanges. When one of then said, "The thing I hate most is when one of ours marries one of them". That's the sanitised version.

I stopped the cab and ordered them out. When they asked why, I told them I was sick of listening to their racist filth, and that I was married to a Japanese and I was particularly annoyed at there comments on mixed marriages. The reply I got from one of them was, "Oh the chinks are ok. What I can't stand is when one of ours marries a darkie", only he didn't say "darkie". Somehow he thought that such a display of liberalism on his part would persuade me to carry on the journey, and he thought it perfectly acceptable to refer to my wife as a "chink". 

[Marc26]

25 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

I confess to having used that work quite frequently, but then I married a Japanese woman, and have not used it since. I did 21 years as a cabbie, and was often asked to bring passengers to the "chinky". I never took offence at this, because I never saw any ill intent in it's use on these occasions. 

However, one of the occupational hazards of being a white cab driver in the UK, is that the racists think you are "one of them". As part of my career as a cabbie, I spent 10 years in Cambridge. On one occasion I picked up four white men to take them to the Conservative Club during which time it was impossible not to hear to hear the racist exchanges. When one of then said, "The thing I hate most is when one of ours marries one of them". That's the sanitised version.

I stopped the cab and ordered them out. When they asked why, I told them I was sick of listening to their racist filth, and that I was married to a Japanese and I was particularly annoyed at there comments on mixed marriages. The reply I got from one of them was, "Oh the chinks are ok. What I can't stand is when one of ours marries a darkie", only he didn't say "darkie". Somehow he thought that such a display of liberalism on his part would persuade me to carry on the journey, and he thought it perfectly acceptable to refer to my wife as a "chink". 

It's wasn't your place to make a judgment on if it was offensive or not

And quite frankly, you don't have a say in the matter

 

And that's what the pushback you see now

Against whites deciding what they feel is appropriate 

Again it's not their place

 

And of course, you started taking offense and being aware once you were personally impacted by it......

[AussieBob]

9 hours ago, Fluke said:

Reason being is that Black people use to word to describe a person , like n****r means a really bad terrible  person and they use it to describe one person , White people tend to use it to describe the whole Black race , suggesting that ALL Black people are bad terrible people , hence the difference 

I hear you - and that is true.   

If you did not know what the word 'negro' means - its original meaning was the colour black.  On some items in Thailand (eg. ink) you will still see that word used on the package.  The word morphed into N as an insult to describe the race - as you said. So now it is PC to ban the word completely and rewrite history and erase it from all memory - IMO that is like when the Nazis burnt the books. By all means things change and going forward it is banned - but I do not believe in changing history for the fashion of today.

You have just called a certain people 'black' and I dont have a problem with that - because I know you did not mean it as an insult. However, how do feel about the fact that to many PC activists the word 'black' is a bad word - the PC term is now African-American.  Will they also want the word black banned and removed from all history?  That is my point - what happens when African-American becomes an insult to some?? 

I am not a supporter of Obama, but when he was asked to legislate to ban the use of racists expressions (after some NBA owner called them N and refused to apologise). Obama replied stating that was a very rocky road to travel. Who decides what is racist?  Do we really want Courts deciding how people are allowed to talk? He stated that the 'court of public opinion' was the answer, and that is the way to 'correct' people's attitudes and behaviours - not bureacratic laws and regulations by unelected officials and manic ideologists.   And he was right - the NBA voted to ban the owner as a member  - therefore he was forced to sell the team (only members can own a team in the NBA).  Likewise - John exercised his 'court' when he threw those aholes out of his taxi.  That is how it should be done - not by the PC 'police' of bureaucrats and zealots forcing people to 'comply' with their views.

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I hear you - and that is true.   

If you did not know what the word 'negro' means - its original meaning was the colour black.  On some items in Thailand (eg. ink) you will still see that word used on the package.  The word morphed into N as an insult to describe the race - as you said. So now it is PC to ban the word completely and rewrite history and erase it from all memory - IMO that is like when the Nazis burnt the books. By all means things change and going forward it is banned - but I do not believe in changing history for the fashion of today.

You have just called a certain people 'black' and I dont have a problem with that - because I know you did not mean it as an insult. However, how do feel about the fact that to many PC activists the word 'black' is a bad word - the PC term is now African-American.  Will they also want the word black banned and removed from all history?  That is my point - what happens when African-American becomes an insult to some?? 

I am not a supporter of Obama, but when he was asked to legislate to ban the use of racists expressions (after some NBA owner called them N and refused to apologise). Obama replied stating that was a very rocky road to travel. Who decides what is racist?  Do we really want Courts deciding how people are allowed to talk? He stated that the 'court of public opinion' was the answer, and that is the way to 'correct' people's attitudes and behaviours - not bureacratic laws and regulations by unelected officials and manic ideologists.   And he was right - the NBA voted to ban the owner as a member  - therefore he was forced to sell the team (only members can own a team in the NBA).  Likewise - John exercised his 'court' when he threw those aholes out of his taxi.  That is how it should be done - not by the PC 'police' of bureaucrats and zealots forcing people to 'comply' with their views.

Although I agree with you on some parts

The N-word is not banned completely 

If you ever watch any movies, recent and older movies depicting slave times or the times during civil rights, it is used all over the movies

 

But in one instance where it was replaced was in Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain

And I agree with you that it shouldn't be replaced. It is used in the book to emphasize the viciousness in how the word was used.

By replacing the word, it takes away the impact and it's use to teach the history 

 

However, even though we agree,  I don't see how that's comparable to the Nazis burning books trying to wipe out a history while the other is being overzealous in trying not to offend

 

Although I do get your point, that by replacing the word, it is wiping out the history of when the word was use.

But I disagree that the two are comparable.

 

Also, Donald Sterling never actually did the N-word 

He was caught on tape basically demeaning black people, but never called them the N-word

 

But he was a certified nutcase.

This was his "apology" interview 

Holy hell.....I forgot how crazy it was

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Marc26

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I hear you - and that is true.   

If you did not know what the word 'negro' means - its original meaning was the colour black.  On some items in Thailand (eg. ink) you will still see that word used on the package.  The word morphed into N as an insult to describe the race - as you said. So now it is PC to ban the word completely and rewrite history and erase it from all memory - IMO that is like when the Nazis burnt the books. By all means things change and going forward it is banned - but I do not believe in changing history for the fashion of today.

You have just called a certain people 'black' and I dont have a problem with that - because I know you did not mean it as an insult. However, how do feel about the fact that to many PC activists the word 'black' is a bad word - the PC term is now African-American.  Will they also want the word black banned and removed from all history?  That is my point - what happens when African-American becomes an insult to some?? 

I am not a supporter of Obama, but when he was asked to legislate to ban the use of racists expressions (after some NBA owner called them N and refused to apologise). Obama replied stating that was a very rocky road to travel. Who decides what is racist?  Do we really want Courts deciding how people are allowed to talk? He stated that the 'court of public opinion' was the answer, and that is the way to 'correct' people's attitudes and behaviours - not bureacratic laws and regulations by unelected officials and manic ideologists.   And he was right - the NBA voted to ban the owner as a member  - therefore he was forced to sell the team (only members can own a team in the NBA).  Likewise - John exercised his 'court' when he threw those aholes out of his taxi.  That is how it should be done - not by the PC 'police' of bureaucrats and zealots forcing people to 'comply' with their views.

Black is definitely not offensive in the US, as a whole

It is the preferred used word

It actually represents their culture, more than any physical description 

Now, I can't say if any one individual is offended by the term "black"

But it is the widely accepted and preferred term in the US

But what is offensive or not does vary by country 

 

African-American is not generally known as offensive but it is an older term that just isn't as accurate as times go by.

Way back, almost all the black people in the US were descendants of Africa

But now, that's not the case. Many descend from Caribbean and such.....

So some feel it doesn't represent them accurately 

[Fluke]

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

So now it is PC to ban the word completely and rewrite history and erase it from all memory - IMO that is like when the Nazis burnt the books

Just need to put thigs in perspective here .

Its the beeping out of one word from old films which are shown on National television , you can still see the original, if you really want to hear the N word in the film .

  The whole film/book isn't being burnt and destroyed , just one word has been beeped out and its common knowledge as to what that word is .

   Much of the cancel culture is orchestrated by White middle class lefty liberals whose purpose in life seems to be to get upset and offended on other peoples behalf , often because their Parents didn't want them associating with non Whites when they were younger 

[Fluke]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Way back, almost all the black people in the US were descendants of Africa

But now, that's not the case. Many descend from Caribbean and such.....

So some feel it doesn't represent them accurately 

I do recall when a Black/British actor was in America and he was refereed to as an "Afro-American" , and he politely informed them that he was actually *British/Caribbean* and has nothing to do with either Africa or America

[AussieBob]

9 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Just need to put thigs in perspective here .

Its the beeping out of one word from old films which are shown on National television , you can still see the original, if you really want to hear the N word in the film .

  The whole film/book isn't being burnt and destroyed , just one word has been beeped out and its common knowledge as to what that word is .

   Much of the cancel culture is orchestrated by White middle class lefty liberals whose purpose in life seems to be to get upset and offended on other peoples behalf , often because their Parents didn't want them associating with non Whites when they were younger 

Good points.  And I do think you are very right about who and what many of them are.  Virtue-signalling  self-flagellators trying to make up for their own bad behaviours and thoughts.  

[Fluke]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Good points.  And I do think you are very right about who and what many of them are.  Virtue-signalling  self-flagellators trying to make up for their own bad behaviours and thoughts.  

And racism being constantly in the news actually causes more division and discrimination .

Non Whites now think that ALL Whites are racist  (Apart from those nice happy Lefty Liberals who are really friendly) and treat Whites according to their misconceptions and they believe that society is against them , whereas in fact , its just a small minority of people who are racist

[Marc26]

15 minutes ago, Fluke said:

I do recall when a Black/British actor was in America and he was refereed to as an "Afro-American" , and he politely informed them that he was actually *British/Caribbean* and has nothing to do with either Africa or America

And I think the phrase/term "coloured" is not considered offensive in the UK?

At least I think it was ok in recent past

 

But in the US, the term "coloured " is not too far behind the N-word when it comes to being offensive 

 

Because during Segregation that was the word mostly used on signs

 

"No Coloured "

Or  "Coloured Entrance"

[AussieBob]

3 minutes ago, Fluke said:

And racism being constantly in the news actually causes more division and discrimination .

Non Whites now think that ALL Whites are racist  (Apart from those nice happy Lefty Liberals who are really friendly) and treat Whites according to their misconceptions and they believe that society is against them , whereas in fact , its just a small minority of people who are racist

So true - politics is a dirty dirty game and politicians will create and use division amongst abd between people for their own advantage. Vote for me - they are bad and did this/that to you and I will fix it.  It is the same tactic on both sides - the lefties blame the righties for all the injustices of the past, and the righties blame the lefties for all the crimes of the present. 

[Fluke]

2 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

And I think the phrase/term "coloured" is not considered offensive in the UK?

At least I think it was ok in recent past

But in the US, the term "coloured " is not too far behind the N-word when it comes to being offensive 

Because during Segregation that was the word mostly used on signs

"No Coloured "

Or  "Coloured Entrance"

I think that "people of colour" is now the correct terminology , although that will probably change when some professor at some University gets upset and offended by it because he has nothing better to do and will go on National television to explain why hes against using that word and what word everyone should use instead 

[Marc26]

15 minutes ago, Fluke said:

And racism being constantly in the news actually causes more division and discrimination .

Non Whites now think that ALL Whites are racist  (Apart from those nice happy Lefty Liberals who are really friendly) and treat Whites according to their misconceptions and they believe that society is against them , whereas in fact , its just a small minority of people who are racist

I don't know where you are from

 

But I don't think you can or I can speak on what we feel is racist when we haven't experienced it

So we don't have an idea

 

That's the whole point. We keep on wanting to control the narrative

White people want to be able to have a say in how much racism is still prevelant

How would you or I have the slightest idea???

We wouldn't 

There aren't many other things that we are less qualified to give our opinions on, but we still seem to think we have a right to..

 

All I know is all you have to do is look at the comments of any story that involves a black person and I dont know what you deem a small minority but there is still plenty out there to deem that racism still exists on a significant scale 

 

My only miniscule of experience is with my wife being Asian.

She does feel she is looked down at times for being Asian

But I still can't understand her experience, even being her husband 

So how would I understand a black person's experience 

[Marc26]

8 minutes ago, Fluke said:

I think that "people of colour" is now the correct terminology , although that will probably change when some professor at some University gets upset and offended by it because he has nothing better to do and will go on National television to explain why hes against using that word and what word everyone should use instead 

Well I think it goes back to being given a phrase and choosing one 

 

It goes back to John's original post and why it so very easy to understand why "Chinky" would be offensive 

Do you think any Asian or Chinese would have decided they wanted to be called "chinky"?

 

Black people didn't choose to be called "coloured" so that becomes offensive ti them....

[Fluke]

3 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Well I think it goes back to being given a phrase and choosing one 

It goes back to John's original post and why it so very easy to understand why "Chinky" would be offensive 

Do you think any Asian or Chinese would have decided they wanted to be called "chinky

The term "Chinky" was usually used when referring to going to a Chinese restaurant or getting a Chinese Take-away , it was just shortened slang , Like "Lets go and watch the footy down the pub and get a Chinky on the way home* (Thats three shortened words/slang in one sentence ) 

[Fluke]

18 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I don't know where you are from

But I don't think you can or I can speak on what we feel is racist when we haven't experienced it

So we don't have an idea

 

I recently got told that I couldn't rent a Condo , reason being that don't want people of my race/colour staying there .

  There was an empty condo available and I was blatantly told they don't want my kind of people because I am the wrong ethnicity . 

   How many minorities in the U.K have experienced that kind of discrimination ?