News Forum - Test & Go registration suspended – Here’s what we know about entry to Thailand

[Jayce]

10 hours ago, Stonker said:

More Thais were infected during the seven week period (247,000 out of 70 million vs 121 out of 105,000), but 10 % of those "travellers" were infected with Omicron which is known to be at least five times as infectious as Delta.

That isn't "wild speculation" but simple fact.

That's actually non-fact and anything but as simple as you want to make it out to be. 247.000 out of 70 million (I'll work on the basis of your numbers, no idea personally but it's of no importance for the sake of the argument I'm about to make) were reported... that doesn't mean that there aren't a huge amount of Thai in addition to that not coming forward to get tested either because they are asymptomatic or are symptomatic but don't relish the idea of being thrown in quarantine. If you believe the numbers that are being published daily to be an accurate representation of the current situation, then we will never agree as we're talking about different realities which we need to agree on as a starting point to the conversation.

Now contrast the fact that we can presume the caseload to be widely underreported in Thailand (because for the Thai testing isn't compulsory as opposed to travelers) with the actual, factual numbers we get from travellers. Why factual? Because nobody gets into Thailand via air without getting tested at least twice, once before departure and once on arrival. Now those are numbers that can indeed not be argued about. So is it then fair to say these people are more infected to start with? Highly doubtful to make a blanket statement such as "are known to be more infected" when you're comparing apples to oranges.

As to being more infectious? I would agree with you if Omicron wouldn't have local spread, but we both know that isn't the case. And even if you want to delude yourself into thinking that Omicron wasn't already spreading in Thailand, the fact that the Israeli guy escaped quarantine and made it all the way to Samui most certainly has kicked off Omicron in Thailand. If not already the case, then very very soon, that 'being more infectious' part of your argument is out the window as well. Which then again opens up the question about why would you want to keep travelers out as the likelihood of the traveler being infected by a Thai person is actually higher than the other way around... As Stapoz correctly pointed out, the influx of a low number of travelers of which the actual number of infected people is just a couple of percentages out of that (and even then, those will be filtered out and put in quarantine as they get tested remember!) is just a drop in the ocean compared to the number of Thai people spreading Covid joy at this very moment. So putting the brakes on travelers right now is very much a knee jerk reaction that makes no sense at all and does more harm than good.

 

16 hours ago, Stonker said:

There's nothing "imaginary" about it - you can do the maths for yourself, using your own figures.  Whatever else they might bring, they're bringing more Covid at a higher rate than is already here.

 

So I hope we can now agree that your own maths are a bit out of whack. If you really think that a population of 70 million has a lower propensity to spread the virus than 105000 travelers we'll never come to an understanding on this. Once the seeding of the virus has happened domestically, the argument about closing borders down again becomes moot and frankly, people who still believe that are delusional. Just ask the 13 million in lockdown in that city in China how happy they are being protected by their locked down international borders... Eventually you can keep locking down in smaller circles 'to keep the virus out' until the only person left in lockdown is you.

 

10 hours ago, Stonker said:

The "and who are also likely to be far better protected"?

Those arriving will all be 100% fully vaccinated. Most, given the breakdown of where they've come from, will have had Pfizer or Moderna, while only a small minority will have had Sinovac.

Thais are only 63% fully vaccinated, and of those out of 99 million doses given 51 million are Sinovac or Sinopharm, with the vast majority (around 75%) being Sinovac.

How can 100% fully vaccinated, with only a small minority being vaccinated with Sinovac and the rest mainly with Pfizer and Moderna, not be "far better protected" than 63% fully vaccinated with half of those doses being Sinovac or Sinopharm, mainly Sinovac?

 

Not saying that's not true at all, quite the opposite, we can certainly agree on travelers for the most part being better protected. Just pointing out that it didn't make sense at all in the argument you were trying to make...

Why would travelers being better protected increase the threat to Thais? That's the point I was trying to make. You were arguing to keep the influx of travelers to as close to zero as possible, so how does travelers being better protected reinforce that argument?? 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Jayce

[Stonker]

44 minutes ago, Jayce said:

That's actually non-fact and anything but as simple as you want to make it out to be. 247.000 out of 70 million (I'll work on the basis of your numbers, no idea personally but it's of no importance for the sake of the argument I'm about to make) were reported... that doesn't mean that there aren't a huge amount of Thai in addition to that not coming forward to get tested either because they are asymptomatic or are symptomatic but don't relish the idea of being thrown in quarantine. If you believe the numbers that are being published daily to be an accurate representation of the current situation, then we will never agree as we're talking about different realities which we need to agree on as a starting point to the conversation.

Now contrast the fact that we can presume the caseload to be widely underreported in Thailand (because for the Thai testing isn't compulsory as opposed to travelers) with the actual, factual numbers we get from travellers. Why factual? Because nobody gets into Thailand via air without getting tested at least twice, once before departure and once on arrival. Now those are numbers that can indeed not be argued about. So is it then fair to say these people are more infected to start with? Highly doubtful to make a blanket statement such as "are known to be more infected" when you're comparing apples to oranges.

As to being more infectious? I would agree with you if Omicron wouldn't have local spread, but we both know that isn't the case. And even if you want to delude yourself into thinking that Omicron wasn't already spreading in Thailand, the fact that the Israeli guy escaped quarantine and made it all the way to Samui most certainly has kicked off Omicron in Thailand. If not already the case, then very very soon, that 'being more infectious' part of your argument is out the window as well. Which then again opens up the question about why would you want to keep travelers out as the likelihood of the traveler being infected by a Thai person is actually higher than the other way around... As Stapoz correctly pointed out, the influx of a low number of travelers of which the actual number of infected people is just a couple of percentages out of that (and even then, those will be filtered out and put in quarantine as they get tested remember!) is just a drop in the ocean compared to the number of Thai people spreading Covid joy at this very moment. So putting the brakes on travelers right now is very much a knee jerk reaction that makes no sense at all and does more harm than good.

So I hope we can now agree that your own maths are a bit out of whack. If you really think that a population of 70 million has a lower propensity to spread the virus than 105000 travelers we'll never come to an understanding on this. Once the seeding of the virus has happened domestically, the argument about closing borders down again becomes mute and frankly, people who still believe that are delusional. Just ask the 13 million in lockdown in that city in China how happy they are being protected by their locked down international borders... Eventually you can keep locking down in smaller circles 'to keep the virus out' until the only person left in lockdown is you.

Not saying that's not true at all, quite the opposite, we can certainly agree on travelers for the most part being better protected. Just pointing out that it didn't make sense at all in the argument you were trying to make...

Why would travelers being better protected increase the threat to Thais? That's the point I was trying to make. You were arguing to keep the influx of travelers to as close to zero as possible, so how does travelers being better protected reinforce that argument?? 

It would probably have saved you a lot of time if you'd noted the key word "known" in my comments although you've quoted me saying it several times.

I'm not saying I believe them or not, simply that they're what's "known".

As for why being better protected increases the risk to those who aren't, it's human nature.

Those who are better protected are likely to travel more and indulge in riskier behaviour, pay less attention to masks, social distancing, hygiene protocols and so on.

Not everyone, but certainly a fair proportion - you only have to look at what's happened across the UK and much of Europe.

 

[darkcountry]

12 hours ago, darkcountry said:

So my gf got her Thailand QR code and was set to leave on the 18th. But because of insanely strict Philippines immigration policy, she was not allowed to go because I paid for her flight and she needed an affidavit from me in order for her to get on the plane. We decided that we were going to apply for a new pass for her and she was going to pay for her own flight. It took a while for us to get the money transferred and flights booked (since we wanted her now to pay for her own flight, or at least appear that way) which is why the first day she was eligible to apply for the pass again they banned it. She is insured for the trip, and I have booked another Test and Go facility including my hotel with a very nice lady that works here.  Is this under "the current scheme" that they are talking about? I read that the flight needs to have been changed within 72 hours. Is this correct? Is she f***ed? Otherwise we'll apply for the Phuket Pass and go there. But more questions arrive, do i have to apply for that pass as well? I also read something that said I can't fly directly from another city in Thailand to Phuket. So I would have to fly out of the country to fly back into Phuket? All of this is insane. Would appreciate some accurate answers. Thanks ya'll

Can anyone answer my question who knows something? Someone has to know at least something.

Also will she have a problem at immigration again because they have her on file for me booking her first flight? If she gets denied because her of the Thailand Pass being passed the 72 hour window then fine, we will book the Phuket pass. But if she gets denied because immigration in the Philippines won't let her go because we messed up the first time by saying that I sponsored her, then is there anyway someone can direct us in the right direction to fix this. I'm having her research all today where she can go in the Philippines to schedule an appointment for the 26th for this very reason. To see if she'll get denied because of checking the wrong freaking box. And if she would have a problem, we'll need to know how to fix this. Any filipino's or anyone with any knowledge whatsoever can give me any tips or advice? Please, I am asking somone with any knowledge just to take a few seconds and reply to at least one of my questions, if not more. A lot of these questions are hard to find on google/other search engines. I already found out I do not need to apply for the Phuket Thailand Pass since I already have a Thailand Pass and I do not need to leave the country to just go to Phuket. Where ever I read that, i must have interpreted it wrong or that was an idiotic statement.

[astro]

42 minutes ago, darkcountry said:

Can anyone answer my question who knows something? Someone has to know at least something.

Also will she have a problem at immigration again because they have her on file for me booking her first flight? If she gets denied because her of the Thailand Pass being passed the 72 hour window then fine, we will book the Phuket pass. But if she gets denied because immigration in the Philippines won't let her go because we messed up the first time by saying that I sponsored her, then is there anyway someone can direct us in the right direction to fix this. I'm having her research all today where she can go in the Philippines to schedule an appointment for the 26th for this very reason. To see if she'll get denied because of checking the wrong freaking box. And if she would have a problem, we'll need to know how to fix this. Any filipino's or anyone with any knowledge whatsoever can give me any tips or advice? Please, I am asking somone with any knowledge just to take a few seconds and reply to at least one of my questions, if not more. A lot of these questions are hard to find on google/other search engines. I already found out I do not need to apply for the Phuket Thailand Pass since I already have a Thailand Pass and I do not need to leave the country to just go to Phuket. Where ever I read that, i must have interpreted it wrong or that was an idiotic statement.

You'll unlikely find anyone here who is familiar with Philippine departure & immigration Pass(?)/regulations for Filipinos. Thai immigration doesn't care who paid for the flight.

 

I can only clarify that there isn't a 72 hours window for the Thai Pass, it is the PCR test which has to be taken no more than 72 hours before departure. If the Thai Pass has been approved, it is still valid even though test & go has been abandoned.

Edited December 24, 2021 by astro

[saltgio]

You write this: “The Thai government made an announcement and with an official graphic saying the last group of those approved under the Test & Go scheme will be able to enter until January 10. The Department of Consular Affairs, which runs the Thailand Pass website, has not made an official statement on a cut off date for those registered for the Test & Go and Sandbox schemes. The order published in the Royal Gazette also does not include a cut off travel date for those who have already registered or been approved.” This is really confusing and putting so many people in to apprehension for first you say “last group of those approved under the Test & Go scheme will be able to enter until January 10.” and then “Royal Gazette also does not include a cut off travel date for those who have already registered or been approved.” nobody really can understand such statements which deny each other?????

[Rain]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

It would probably have saved you a lot of time if you'd noted the key word "known" in my comments although you've quoted me saying it several times.

I'm not saying I believe them or not, simply that they're what's "known".

As for why being better protected increases the risk to those who aren't, it's human nature.

Those who are better protected are likely to travel more and indulge in riskier behaviour, pay less attention to masks, social distancing, hygiene protocols and so on.

Not everyone, but certainly a fair proportion - you only have to look at what's happened across the UK and much of Europe.

The comfort of invented false securities comes to mind.

[Stonker]

26 minutes ago, Rain said:

The comfort of invented false securities comes to mind.

Exactly.

[ThaiPhilExpat]

2 hours ago, darkcountry said:

Can anyone answer my question who knows something? Someone has to know at least something.

Also will she have a problem at immigration again because they have her on file for me booking her first flight? If she gets denied because her of the Thailand Pass being passed the 72 hour window then fine, we will book the Phuket pass. But if she gets denied because immigration in the Philippines won't let her go because we messed up the first time by saying that I sponsored her, then is there anyway someone can direct us in the right direction to fix this. I'm having her research all today where she can go in the Philippines to schedule an appointment for the 26th for this very reason. To see if she'll get denied because of checking the wrong freaking box. And if she would have a problem, we'll need to know how to fix this. Any filipino's or anyone with any knowledge whatsoever can give me any tips or advice? Please, I am asking somone with any knowledge just to take a few seconds and reply to at least one of my questions, if not more. A

 

I lived in Phils almost 10 years and know how Phil Immigration work (strict)

Make a new topic about this, so we don't hijack this topic.

Post it in subforum:

Visas for other countries  and I will reply there

[JamesR]

On 12/23/2021 at 7:36 AM, Rangers said:

Or here's a thought, maybe we could all just start treating it like a cold. Does anyone know anyone with any symptoms from Omicron? No me neither, not even a sniffle. The scaremongering on here gets worse. 

Does anyone know anyone with any symptoms of the virus, does anyone know anyone who has been killed in a car accident, does anyone know anyone who had been robbed or murdered.

No?, So that means the virus, car accidents etc do not exist, what stupid logic is that!

[Rangers]

14 hours ago, JamesR said:

Does anyone know anyone with any symptoms of the virus, does anyone know anyone who has been killed in a car accident, does anyone know anyone who had been robbed or murdered.

No?, So that means the virus, car accidents etc do not exist, what stupid logic is that!

Given the number of positive cases across the world then how is it a stupid logic? Just because it doesn't suit your doom and gloom scaremongering logic doesn't make it untrue. Omicron is good news, get over it. 

[astro]

I don't know anybody who has contracted Omicron, maybe it doesn't exist?

[Rangers]

39 minutes ago, astro said:

I don't know anybody who has contracted Omicron, maybe it doesn't exist?

You do, it's just they don't know they have it.  

[Rain]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:23 AM, gundam0315 said:

best that you ask your hotel that question on day 1, as about 100% of the people on this forum have absolutely no idea

Nor do any circle of Thai officialdom/semi-officialdom. 

[Rangers]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:08 AM, AnoMoss said:

So how does one take care of this new +7 day RT-PCR testing requirement for 'Test and Go' if no testing locations are near your destination?

We will be taking off in just a few days and I am very worried about this.  We will be staying in Koh Lipe around this 7 day timeframe... I do not see any testing locations on the linked site on Lipe.  What does this mean for people in a similar situation as us?

Any info, suggestions, or insight would be greatly appreciated!  I've asked our hotel on this but it seems a stretch that they would be able to help.

When you land and go through security you will do a PCR test before exiting the airport, they also give you your day 7 test to take away with you. It actually looks like an rapid flow test, haven't opened it all yet but looks that way. The instructions we were given weren't great but our reception at the hotel said they will deal with it. I will update you when we do it in a couple of days  

[astro]

18 minutes ago, Rangers said:

When you land and go through security you will do a PCR test before exiting the airport, ....

Not at Suvanabum, it's your hotel in Bangkok where you get tested by the associated hospital staff.

Results 6 - 12 hours later.

 

Edit: unless they changed that recently.

Edited December 25, 2021 by astro

[Rain]

2 hours ago, astro said:

I don't know anybody who has contracted Omicron, maybe it doesn't exist?

It doesn't.

The usual fabrication and narrative.

[Stonker]

56 minutes ago, Rangers said:

When you land and go through security you will do a PCR test before exiting the airport, they also give you your day 7 test to take away with you. It actually looks like an rapid flow test, haven't opened it all yet but looks that way. The instructions we were given weren't great but our reception at the hotel said they will deal with it. I will update you when we do it in a couple of days  

They were almost certainly rapid flow / ATK tests - not anymore.

Allowing / trusting people to administer their own tests unobserved / unsupervised is about as absurd as it gets. While many will stick to the rules and do it properly, just as many will self-quarantine and isolate, but many obviously won't and don't and there's nothing to stop you testing someone else or your dog.

Quite absurd and completely pointless although that's how some countries still do it.

[Guest1]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:19 AM, Michael0510 said:

What do you think, how high the risk is, that a traveller is tested positive on a third test after two negative tests the days before,

But it is not impossible, isn't it?

Alone the time between arrival day and next test makes it impossible to find out, if the person arrived with it or got it in the first days here.

Because to get tested positive on day 6, you 'need' to get infected before day 4, methinks.

But to get twice tested negative before, you just need to have gotten it one or two days before the second test.

Looking at numbers in the countries, the tourists coming from, looking at the numbers here, what do you think is more possible?

 

 

 

[Poolie]

I think its a case of:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7L_iLOHT4D_W6lITi2G8sZw0i21jR1uM4CA&usqp=CAU

[Rangers]

1 hour ago, astro said:

Not at Suvanabum, it's your hotel in Bangkok where you get tested by the associated hospital staff.

Results 6 - 12 hours later.

Edit: unless they changed that recently.

Must be different then. Phuket they check all your thailand pass documents before you head through security, then you collect your case, before doing your pcr test at the exit door. 

[astro]

Yes, they check all the documents before passport control at Suva as well.

[Rangers]

41 minutes ago, Stonker said:

They were almost certainly rapid flow / ATK tests - not anymore.

Allowing / trusting people to administer their own tests unobserved / unsupervised is about as absurd as it gets. While many will stick to the rules and do it properly, just as many will self-quarantine and isolate, but many obviously won't and don't and there's nothing to stop you testing someone else or your dog.

Quite absurd and completely pointless although that's how some countries still do it.

I haven't opened the packet yet but it feels like a rapid flow kit, could be wrong. The information we got was pretty vague with regards to this day 7 test. Everything else was very well organised. 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Guest1 said:

But it is not impossible, isn't it?

Alone the time between arrival day and next test makes it impossible to find out, if the person arrived with it or got it in the first days here.

Because to get tested positive on day 6, you 'need' to get infected before day 4, methinks.

But to get twice tested negative before, you just need to have gotten it one or two days before the second test.

Looking at numbers in the countries, the tourists coming from, looking at the numbers here, what do you think is more possible?

 

On 12/23/2021 at 8:19 AM, Michael0510 said:

Do you even know, what the word ‘risky’ means?

In the first seven weeks there were 121 out of more than 105,000 travellers tested positive on arrival under test&go. Let’s say one out of thousand was tested positive on the second test after a first negative test days before. What do you think, how high the risk is, that a traveller is tested positive on a third test after two negative tests the days before, without getting infected in Thailand? It’s lower than one out of a million. With 105,000 travellers in seven weeks, there will be less than one traveller within 365 days who is infected on arrival but tested negative two times. Is that risky? Really?

Thailand has a lot of legal and illegal workers coming from neighbor countries without getting tested and with a high risk of being infected.

Thailand isn’t testing the population in many provinces enough to protect the people there from infections.

These both facts are risky. 

I think it's fair to say that whatever else we disagree on, most of us agree that any travel is 'risky' at the moment and those risks should be minimised as should unnecessary travel.

While travellers may be happy with the risk they're taking that's their choice, which is fine, but for those here - mainly Thais - they don't have any choice and they still have to take a risk whether they like it or not.

Very few Thais are going to get any benefit from the few tourists arriving, and very few have much sympathy for those in Pattaya or Phuket - but they all have to take the risk, wherever they are.  They don't have any choice about it, so why should they be happy when the risk is increased, regardless of how much it's increased?

Why should they think it makes any sense to knowingly increase the risk, however much it's by, when there's nothing for them to gain by it, directly or indirectly?

[astro]

"The Thais" - that's an unfortunate generalisation, which doesn't hold water.

A good portion of Thais doesn't seem to be risk-averse at all, judging by the behaviour, such as tolerateing illegal, unscreened workers from neighbouring countries in, frequenting illegal bars, travelling without adhering to COVID regulations etc.

 

But no: international travellers, of whom a miniscule percentage turn out to be infected, need to be blamed & punished by closing the borders? Sounds like an irrational panic reaction to me.

Edited December 25, 2021 by astro

[Marc26]

29 minutes ago, astro said:

"The Thais" - that's an unfortunate generalisation, which doesn't hold water.

A good portion of Thais doesn't seem to be risk-averse at all, judging by the behaviour, such as tolerateing illegal, unscreened workers from neighbouring countries in, frequenting illegal bars, travelling without adhering to COVID regulations etc.

But no: international travellers, of whom a miniscule percentage turn out to be infected, need to be blamed & punished by closing the borders? Sounds like an irrational panic reaction to me.

What a weird thought process you have that you feel you are being "punished" by another countries decision on their bother requirements 

 

It is such entitled behavior/thinking

Thailand owes you or any tourist nothing at all 

 

It's just simply bizarre thinking