News Forum - Too much paperwork and lack of cooperation cited by Thai teacher who recently quit

[Thaiger]

A Thai teacher, who recently quit her job, has cited 2 reasons that seem to echo throughout the country’s education system: too much paperwork and a lack of cooperation. The young female teacher, Knokwan Boontansen, resigned at an elementary school in the country’s lower northern Nakhon Sawan province, with the story by Bangkok Post going viral for several reasons. The teacher says she had devoted her life to teaching, but the reasons for her resigning have also been voiced by many educators as significant barriers to successful teaching. As Thai education has increasingly been under the spotlight in recent years, […]

The story Too much paperwork and lack of cooperation cited by Thai teacher who recently quit as seen on Thaiger News.

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[palooka]

Sad to see her go, Thai education system need teachers like her.

 My wife is a teacher and I agree with this article wholeheartedly, endless useless paperwork, too many meetings (even in Covid times) that do nothing or very little  to promote education, the schools are riddled with lazy teachers and teacher assistants who spend more time on their resume to justify a pay grade increase than teaching. 

Childrens' grades are given not earned, given because if they all pass the teacher gets another plus for pay increase and the school director looks good for their pay increase and I have seen "honest" teachers gradings marked up by the School Director (School Principal to some) as the Director thought them inappropriate to reflect the schools education grading (and the Directors expected pay increase).

Definitely the education system is going one way, backwards.

 

[TukTuk]

Shameful, however, there seems to be a willful effort on the part of the government to keep a majority of the population uneducated.

My opinion is an uneducated population will not question government corruption and all the nefarious behaviors perpetrated by the government for their own personal benefit.

An educated Thai might question why a Thai minister on a government salary is wearing a 12 million baht watch!

[Farang123]

The entire society is flawed since it is based upon a top down system of leadership with the minions unable to question anyone above them.  Nothing will ever change in Thailand. This is why every year we sit watching the Immigration Minion look at every single page of our visa documentation again and make random marks and stamps upon it despite the fact the documents have not changed for the past ten years instead of suggesting to their management that their task is, in fact, totally pointless.

 

[notpoor]

1 hour ago, Farang123 said:

The entire society is flawed since it is based upon a top down system of leadership with the minions unable to question anyone above them.  Nothing will ever change in Thailand. This is why every year we sit watching the Immigration Minion look at every single page of our visa documentation again and make random marks and stamps upon it despite the fact the documents have not changed for the past ten years instead of suggesting to their management that their task is, in fact, totally pointless.

but we need it to stay this way. if Thailand modernises like say, Singapore then we won't be able to afford to live here. it's already expensive as it is, they're wanting 60 baht for a small Beer Chang these days. highway robbery!

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

An educated Thai might question why a Thai minister on a government salary is wearing a 12 million baht watch!

He would then swear he bought it at Patpong Markets.

[NCC1701A]

Thailand 2122: '

You want massage? Where you go?"

[Cabra]

THA is burdened with an excessive amount of paperwork/bureaucracy at ever turn... national or foreigner. No one is immune. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

An educated Thai might question why a Thai minister on a government salary is wearing a 12 million baht watch!

... and you think 'uneducated' Thais don't?

Seriously??? 

[Convert54]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

... and you think 'uneducated' Thais don't?

Seriously??? 

Sadly even if the question  comes to mind so does the realization that to question it is either pointless or  invites  punitive  retaliation .

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, palooka said:

Sad to see her go, Thai education system need teachers like her

I agree with the rest, but given her reasons for leaving, I'm far from sure the Thai education system does need teachers like her:

"The second reason was regarding the online teaching adopted during the Covid-19 pandemic. Ms Kanokwan said she found online learning required cooperation and readiness from students and parents -- something that was rarely achieved. She felt she was unable to achieve her teaching objectives and that it was not worth taxpayers' money."

That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness".

[Stonker]

19 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Sadly even if the question  comes to mind so does the realization that to question it is either pointless or  invites  punitive  retaliation .

And you think those Thais who are educated come to a different conclusion?

Edit: I deleted part of my comment as it was unfair and unjustified. Sorry.

[palooka]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness".

My wife says that getting the online to work is very hard as most of the childrens carers are the grandparents and in some cases GG parents , some of which had little or no schooling, plus the discipline issues some have (ie do it tomorrow) and in some cases no online facilities or phones.  The children have her phone number and she encourages them to ring her if they have problems or need clarification and they do, sometimes at 9 pm.  Of the 30 children in her class about 10 are getting left behind in schooling.

It's a hard nut, education, even in good times.

 

[HiuMak]

11 hours ago, Thaiger said:

A Thai teacher, who recently quit her job, has cited 2 reasons that seem to echo throughout the country’s education system: too much paperwork and a lack of cooperation. The young female teacher, Knokwan Boontansen, resigned at an elementary school in the country’s lower northern Nakhon Sawan province, with the story by Bangkok Post going viral for several reasons. The teacher says she had devoted her life to teaching, but the reasons for her resigning have also been voiced by many educators as significant barriers to successful teaching. As Thai education has increasingly been under the spotlight in recent years, […]

The story Too much paperwork and lack of cooperation cited by Thai teacher who recently quit as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

sounds like complaining to me

[DiJoDavO]

9 hours ago, Stonker said:

 

That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness".

Are you currently a teacher teaching online? 

It seems as if you have no clue about the system here and how students behave in Thailand. And it also seems as if you have no clue about the situation with many families. 

If you happen to be a teacher, you probably are teaching P1-3 where parents are still trying to help a bit and you say Hey! Wow! Everyone is listening! What's the problem? 

In all these years, no matter how interesting you are as a teacher, not everyone is interested in the subject and as soon as there's no parent in the room, they'll rather play a game. Wouldn't you rather choose a game than learning if you were a kid? I won't believe you if you rather would study and have homework. 

I actually communicate with the teachers here and even the most interesting teacher in my school can't win compared to the games the students are able to play while turning off the cam and the mic. Using excuses like: teacher, microphone not work, wifi, etc. 

You have no clue how the current situation is. I also communicate with parents whose children I tutor. They say that there's no time for them to help because they have to work. There's just no cooperation, because parents just can't. 

Of course there's always that one or few students who are like, super well-behaved. But there are 30+- students to teach. So tell me, almighty teacher... How to teach those kids??? 

I don't mean teach as in talk and go. Really have them listen and let it get into their brain and have it stay there. That is already impossible in normal class in school. Can you imagine the drama during online learning? 

Then there's also that student who is always talking and talking, so that student will block the others from answering, which means no learning by thinking, but by copying, which means no learning at all. 

Then you also have the too cooperative parents who are just giving all the answers. Again no learning but copying. 

Then teachsrs also have a problem. Schools have a reputation and teachers are forced to keep that reputation high, so they have to let students pass. If not, bye bye teacher, good luck finding a school which doesn't work that way. (fyi there's no school in Thailand which works differently) 

If you think you can do it and the school happens to understand, good luck handling the parents. They will get pissed off as soon as they see the grades. Not at their kid, but at the school, which on their turn will warn the teachers again. 

Don't talk about stuff you don't know about. But of course, seeing this reply, I guess now you will also call every teacher here a bad teacher, but that will instantly prove how much you actually know about the situation. There are quite many teachers who want to bring change but they are held back by either the school or the parents. 

The problem will get even bigger when parents have money and just pay their kid's way to the next grade. Which means that the child has not enough knowledge for the next grade, which makes them fall behind. 

God, there are even parents I've heard of who are using their kid's health as an excuse. Keep saying there's something wrong with them mentally, so they MUST go to the next grade, because that's the law! Students who are diagnosed with something, may not fail. Only may be advised to go to another school. But if the parents don't want that, there's no choice. In the meanwhile the kid is not learning anything and behave like a P1 student in P6. 

The educational system here is way dirtier than you might know. And parents also know this and behave dirty too. 

But you can go on, blame teachers for this. Children are holy, parents are also perfect and schools do nothing wrong. Only the teachers. 

[AussieBob]

I say be very careful to those advocating 'changes' without catering for the downsides that changes could bring.  Do you really want the Thai children being taught 'gender issues' at ages 6-9. Do you really want all the boys publicly apologising to the girls for all the past injustices against females. Do you really want all the girls to be taught that they are 'better' than the boys. Do you want the boys taught they are inferior because in the past males committed all the atrocities in history. Do you want the boys taught they are obstacles to the achievement of 'gender equality' for the girls. 

Yes change is needed - but unless it is managed tightly - change does not always produce good outcomes.

In the past (1970s) the western schooling system discriminated against girls (true). But the changes made have resulted in boy's academic performances being worse comparatively than the girls used to be. Changes have made the situation whereby a University in Sydney has proudly proclaimed that 72% of it's first year  intake was females and that they are a positive contributor to the achievement of 'gender equality'.  The very fact that the changes have resulted in exactly the opposite outcomes, and now boys are the ones being discriminated against, has been totally missed - only now is it being questioned (quietly).

The above is unlikely to occur in Thailand (for a long long time), but the point is that change for a good reason, does not always bring about good outcomes. Those implementing changes will be the same people overseeing the current system - they will look after themselves and their own personal agendas first.

[Fanta]

12 hours ago, Stonker said:

I agree with the rest, but given her reasons for leaving, I'm far from sure the Thai education system does need teachers like her:

"The second reason was regarding the online teaching adopted during the Covid-19 pandemic. Ms Kanokwan said she found online learning required cooperation and readiness from students and parents -- something that was rarely achieved. She felt she was unable to achieve her teaching objectives and that it was not worth taxpayers' money."

That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness".

“a lack of operation and readiness” can also be interpreted as a polite way of saying that the kids are simply not being online to receive some education and the parents not enforcing attendance as they cannot see the value in online learning as they’ve never experienced it. Students must be a lot easier to teach in schools because there’s less distractions than in a home setting.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Fanta
Added enforcing attendance

[DiJoDavO]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

“a lack of operation and readiness” can also be interpreted as a polite way of saying that the kids are simply not being online to receive some education and the parents not enforcing attendance as they cannot see the value in online learning as they’ve never experienced it. Students must be a lot easier to teach in schools because there’s less distractions than in a home setting.

And much easier to discipline in some way or another too. When they are at home, all that they learn is bad behavior. 

If the teacher is upset, they just roll their eyes, click the teacher away and open a new window with a game or so. They don't learn the consequences for your actions part. For some who are mature enough already, it's easy to switch back, because at some point in life they've learned that. But for younger students, this could have way more impact than we think. 

[Rain]

19 hours ago, palooka said:

Sad to see her go, Thai education system need teachers like her.

 My wife is a teacher and I agree with this article wholeheartedly, endless useless paperwork, too many meetings (even in Covid times) that do nothing or very little  to promote education, the schools are riddled with lazy teachers and teacher assistants who spend more time on their resume to justify a pay grade increase than teaching. 

Childrens' grades are given not earned, given because if they all pass the teacher gets another plus for pay increase and the school director looks good for their pay increase and I have seen "honest" teachers gradings marked up by the School Director (School Principal to some) as the Director thought them inappropriate to reflect the schools education grading (and the Directors expected pay increase).

Definitely the education system is going one way, backwards.

An independent collective system of very affordable tutorials could be beneficial, countering the malignancy that is the Thai educational system. 

[Stonker]

11 hours ago, palooka said:

My wife says that getting the online to work is very hard as most of the childrens carers are the grandparents and in some cases GG parents , some of which had little or no schooling, plus the discipline issues some have (ie do it tomorrow) and in some cases no online facilities or phones.  The children have her phone number and she encourages them to ring her if they have problems or need clarification and they do, sometimes at 9 pm.  Of the 30 children in her class about 10 are getting left behind in schooling.

It's a hard nut, education, even in good times.

Agreed absolutely, and that's the case around me and with my next-door neighbours who are looking after their grandson while his parents are working in a factory. He's now seven and barely has the reading age of maybe a four old, at best, and while everyone else went back to school he stayed at home until they had a visit from the school. Limited internet (we're outside broadband range) and only a mobile as a hotspot, and zero interest.

I'm not saying it's not a "hard nut", but if you choose to be a teacher and then give it up because you've found that there's a lack of "cooperation and readiness from students and parents" and you're "unable to achieve her teaching objectives and that it was not worth taxpayers' money" so you give it up then I really don't think that the Thai or any other education system needs teachers like her  -  she's simply chosen the wrong profession.

[Stonker]

9 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

Are you currently a teacher teaching online? 

No.

I'm currently retired, as I have been for nearly thirty years since I was in my mid-30's.

 

10 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

It seems as if you have no clue about the system here and how students behave in Thailand. And it also seems as if you have no clue about the situation with many families. 

 

Wrong on both counts.

10 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

If you happen to be a teacher, you probably are teaching P1-3 where parents are still trying to help a bit and you say Hey! Wow! Everyone is listening! What's the problem? 

Not a teacher, and although I've 'taught' for a considerable part of my working life it was training rather than teaching.

 

10 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

In all these years, no matter how interesting you are as a teacher, not everyone is interested in the subject and as soon as there's no parent in the room, they'll rather play a game. Wouldn't you rather choose a game than learning if you were a kid? I won't believe you if you rather would study and have homework. 

I actually communicate with the teachers here and even the most interesting teacher in my school can't win compared to the games the students are able to play while turning off the cam and the mic. Using excuses like: teacher, microphone not work, wifi, etc. 

You have no clue how the current situation is. I also communicate with parents whose children I tutor. They say that there's no time for them to help because they have to work. There's just no cooperation, because parents just can't. 

Of course there's always that one or few students who are like, super well-behaved. But there are 30+- students to teach. So tell me, almighty teacher... How to teach those kids??? 

I don't mean teach as in talk and go. Really have them listen and let it get into their brain and have it stay there. That is already impossible in normal class in school. Can you imagine the drama during online learning? 

Then there's also that student who is always talking and talking, so that student will block the others from answering, which means no learning by thinking, but by copying, which means no learning at all. 

Then you also have the too cooperative parents who are just giving all the answers. Again no learning but copying. 

Then teachsrs also have a problem. Schools have a reputation and teachers are forced to keep that reputation high, so they have to let students pass. If not, bye bye teacher, good luck finding a school which doesn't work that way. (fyi there's no school in Thailand which works differently) 

If you think you can do it and the school happens to understand, good luck handling the parents. They will get pissed off as soon as they see the grades. Not at their kid, but at the school, which on their turn will warn the teachers again. 

 

Don't talk about stuff you don't know about. But of course, seeing this reply, I guess now you will also call every teacher here a bad teacher, but that will instantly prove how much you actually know about the situation. There are quite many teachers who want to bring change but they are held back by either the school or the parents. 

The problem will get even bigger when parents have money and just pay their kid's way to the next grade. Which means that the child has not enough knowledge for the next grade, which makes them fall behind. 

God, there are even parents I've heard of who are using their kid's health as an excuse. Keep saying there's something wrong with them mentally, so they MUST go to the next grade, because that's the law! Students who are diagnosed with something, may not fail. Only may be advised to go to another school. But if the parents don't want that, there's no choice. In the meanwhile the kid is not learning anything and behave like a P1 student in P6. 

The educational system here is way dirtier than you might know. And parents also know this and behave dirty too. 

But you can go on, blame teachers for this. Children are holy, parents are also perfect and schools do nothing wrong. Only the teachers. 

 

 

Oh perleeze ..... not the 'it's so hard you don't know what it's like' bit.

It's simple.

Whatever the job, if it involves motivating those under you and you can't do it, then you're in the wrong job - end of story.

 

[Stonker]

8 hours ago, whitesnake said:

I've actually sat there and witnessed my department head "upping" the student's test scores, off my flash drive, so the students in question don't receive a low result!!!! Errrrrr??! I think that's called fraud in any other country!!! It's no small wonder Thailand's educational standing is on the bones of its ass!

Another teacher blaming 'the system'. Why am I not surprised?

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

“a lack of operation and readiness” can also be interpreted as a polite way of saying that the kids are simply not being online to receive some education and the parents not enforcing attendance as they cannot see the value in online learning as they’ve never experienced it. Students must be a lot easier to teach in schools because there’s less distractions than in a home setting.

Agreed - but then it's up to those in charge and responsible to do something about it.

Those who can't will throw their hand in, while those who can will get off their backsides and do something about it.

In the case of local schools, some did their on-line teaching from the classroom with a minimal number of children in attendance - sometimes two or three, sometimes four or five, depending on the room size and who needed attention most. The teachers went round visiting their students at home to motivate and encourage - some could do it, as they've been doing at the same school for thrity years or more, some couldn't.

They couldn' wave a magic wand for everyone, but the wheat was sorted from the chaff for both students and teachers.

[Smithydog]

I have heard many teachers talk about their struggles of late. A lot has been associated with online classes and having seen so many of my daughter's classes this year, I can see what the teachers are concerned about.

The sudden switch from face to face to online caught so many unprepared....teachers, students, administrators and parents. For my own daughter, class times were shorter out of concerns re staring at computer screens all day. For some of the teachers who use experiments etc (eg Chemistry) a valuable teaching tool was removed that created a lot of interest and sometimes fun in the classroom.

This is all on top of the common issues they face as students move through the years. Inconsistency in curriculum was clearly apparent as students from rural junior high schools had far less exposure to subjects focussed on in city based schools. Students were learning things they should have been taught in younger grades but had no idea of. The disparity in education was clearly apparent.

I am not surprised that teachers may choose to leave and seek other roles. They are low paid for a start and not reflecting their importance to society as a whole. I too have seen marks changed simply to improve scores so students and teachers are not penalised. A closed book exam first given was then retested with students able to use their books and notes over a whole weekend.

I have seen how homework volume can be massive, not coordinated amongst teachers and does not allow for a balanced review of lessons. All this has been accentuated by the online learning. I have seen dedicated teachers put on extra classes (unpaid) and be on hand to answer questions day and night out of school hours, simply because they want their students to succeed.

And I have seen the bad behaviour from unsupported and unsupervised kids as their parents, facing their own challenges, are away working.

No singe thing is at fault. It is almost the perfect storm to create below par educational standards. I also don't see any short term change as to me a major attitude change is needed by many.

 

[palooka]

56 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I'm not saying it's not a "hard nut", but if you choose to be a teacher and then give it up because you've found that there's a lack of "cooperation and readiness from students and parents" and you're "unable to achieve her teaching objectives and that it was not worth taxpayers' money" so you give it up then I really don't think that the Thai or any other education system needs teachers like her  -  she's simply chosen the wrong profession.

The sad part is that she is/was a teacher that possibly really cared, schools are riddled with teachers who are only there for the pay check and don't give a damn about the kids and their education. I don't think she chose the wrong profession but she was working with too many that had chosen teaching for the wrong reasons and became the brick wall of frustration for her to try to improve things and do the job she was paid to do.

Parents have a hard life, both (many single) working long hours and then trying to raise children to have a better life then they have.  The kids don't understand they just want to go play with their mates so the children unintentionally fail the teachers hopes, the parent/s work long hours and a lot do it six days (some 7) a week to make ends meet so very little time to give to the children re online. The grandparents don't understand online and internet is a dirty word to some.  Result a caring teacher quits, the kids education suffers and the bludgers stay with a status quo work life.

Thailand education system ----- FAIL.