News Forum - Too much paperwork and lack of cooperation cited by Thai teacher who recently quit

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, palooka said:

The sad part is that she is/was a teacher that possibly really cared, schools are riddled with teachers who are only there for the pay check and don't give a damn about the kids and their education. I don't think she chose the wrong profession but she was working with too many that had chosen teaching for the wrong reasons and became the brick wall of frustration for her to try to improve things and do the job she was paid to do.

Parents have a hard life, both (many single) working long hours and then trying to raise children to have a better life then they have.  The kids don't understand they just want to go play with their mates so the children unintentionally fail the teachers hopes, the parent/s work long hours and a lot do it six days (some 7) a week to make ends meet so very little time to give to the children re online. The grandparents don't understand online and internet is a dirty word to some.  Result a caring teacher quits, the kids education suffers and the bludgers stay with a status quo work life.

Thailand education system ----- FAIL.

Maybe she did "really care" - to be honest, I'm sure she did.  But does that alone make her a good teacher?

Sorry, but in my view it doesn't. I worked with a lot of people who "cared" about those under them, as well as a good few who didn't, but sadly that didn't make them any better at their job and if they were ineffective they were still ineffective - in a lot of cases, even more ineffective.

9 minutes ago, palooka said:

and the bludgers stay with a status quo work life.

Definitely agree with you on that bit - just as it is in many places .

[DiJoDavO]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

No.

I'm currently retired, as I have been for nearly thirty years since I was in my mid-30's.

Wrong on both counts.

Not a teacher, and although I've 'taught' for a considerable part of my working life it was training rather than teaching.

Oh perleeze ..... not the 'it's so hard you don't know what it's like' bit.

It's simple.

Whatever the job, if it involves motivating those under you and you can't do it, then you're in the wrong job - end of story.

Strong arguments you make there.

You have no clue about what it is to teach +30 students online. Then you can be whatever famous person, even then they won't pay attention. 

I'd recommend you to tryit first and then have an argument on it again. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by DiJoDavO

[Stonker]

27 minutes ago, whitesnake said:

Stonker!! Do one!! You just annoy the hell out of everyone here! Take your trolling attitude to another forum... we're bored with your continual, holier than thou diatribe all the time. YOU KNOW SQUAT ABOUT TEACHING SO BE QUIET!!

Yet again, why am I not surprised?

A teacher who not only thinks he knows what "everyone" thinks and who's incapable of a reasoned response, but who thinks that only teachers are entitled to opine about teaching although it's one of the few things that everyone, literally everyone, has experienced.

Some are a credit to their profession - others, sadly not.

[Stonker]

8 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Strong arguments you make there.

You have no clue about what it is to teach +30 students online. Then you can be whatever famous person, even then they won't pay attention. 

I'd recommend you to tryit first and then have an argument on it again. 

But I'm not "having an argument" about "what it is to teach + 30 students online".

I never have been.

Nor am I arguing about whether she cared about her students or not.

I'm just saying that:

"It's simple.

Whatever the job, if it involves motivating those under you and you can't do it, then you're in the wrong job - end of story."

If you disagree with that, and you think it's on topic which it probably is as that's a major factor in why she left, then I'm quite happy to debate that with you and I'd be very interested to see why / if you disagree.

 

 

[KaptainRob]

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[DiJoDavO]

9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

But I'm not "having an argument" about "what it is to teach + 30 students online".

I never have been.

Nor am I arguing about whether she cared about her students or not.

I'm just saying that:

"It's simple.

Whatever the job, if it involves motivating those under you and you can't do it, then you're in the wrong job - end of story."

If you disagree with that, and you think it's on topic which it probably is as that's a major factor in why she left, then I'm quite happy to debate that with you and I'd be very interested to see why / if you disagree.

I'm not saying we have an argument. I mean you come up with strong points there. Not. 

If you really do believe this all can be blamed on the teachers is proof enough that you have 0% clue about the system here and the life of the regular Thai people. 

You can take a look at that post again. It's detailed enough to explain it all in the big picture. It goes even deeper than that. And all you say is nope. Nope. Not true. You probably barely read it. 

Of course if someone can't be well with kids, they shouldn't be a teacher. But, whoever you put in front of the cam, they just won't listen apart from a few. Should we literally fire all the teachers in the school? 

Again, there's a big problem with schools, how directors lead the school and also the educational system overall. Also the parents take part in it. 

Now you might think that I'm biased. Maybe. But I do look from a neutral point of view, and whatever I see involves teachers trying to change things in school, followed by school cracking down on those teachers and keep the same system, because this is an advantage for the school compared to other schools. 

School is just like any other business. We need to look good, so there will be more customers, so there will be more money. Same here, wow, look at our school! No one fails! That must be a super good school! What? Highest score in the whole area? Wow, so great! All it took was convincing parents there was something wrong with their child and asking the doctors for a certificate of less smart students, so they didn't have to take the big Onet test. Which results in a higher average score. 

If you say there's nothing wrong with the system, and it all should be blamed on the teachers, shame on you. 

[DiJoDavO]

58 minutes ago, whitesnake said:

Stonker!! Do one!! You just annoy the hell out of everyone here! Take your trolling attitude to another forum... we're bored with your continual, holier than thou diatribe all the time. YOU KNOW SQUAT ABOUT TEACHING SO BE QUIET!!

Everyone may have their own opinion. Even though we don't agree isn't it? If what you said should happen, I was kicked off this forum way back when I started questioning Covid

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, DiJoDavO said:

I'm not saying we have an argument. I mean you come up with strong points there. Not. 

If you really do believe this all can be blamed on the teachers is proof enough that you have 0% clue about the system here and the life of the regular Thai people. 

You can take a look at that post again. It's detailed enough to explain it all in the big picture. It goes even deeper than that. And all you say is nope. Nope. Not true. You probably barely read it. 

Of course if someone can't be well with kids, they shouldn't be a teacher. But, whoever you put in front of the cam, they just won't listen apart from a few. Should we literally fire all the teachers in the school? 

Again, there's a big problem with schools, how directors lead the school and also the educational system overall. Also the parents take part in it. 

Now you might think that I'm biased. Maybe. But I do look from a neutral point of view, and whatever I see involves teachers trying to change things in school, followed by school cracking down on those teachers and keep the same system, because this is an advantage for the school compared to other schools. 

School is just like any other business. We need to look good, so there will be more customers, so there will be more money. Same here, wow, look at our school! No one fails! That must be a super good school! What? Highest score in the whole area? Wow, so great! All it took was convincing parents there was something wrong with their child and asking the doctors for a certificate of less smart students, so they didn't have to take the big Onet test. Which results in a higher average score. 

If you say there's nothing wrong with the system, and it all should be blamed on the teachers, shame on you. 

@DiJoDavO, since you ask I'll reply.

I'm not saying "there's nothing wrong with the system", nor am I saying "it all should be blamed on the teachers".

I've simply never said or suggested that in any way.

I've opined about quite how bad I think the Thai education system is elsewhere in other threads, I thought quite clearly and extensively.

I answered "Nope. Nope" because where you asked specific questions about me I gave specific, brief answers.

I never said "not true" about your issues with the Thai education system, and for what it's worth I agree with them just as I agreed with @palooka about the difficulties of on line teaching as I did with @Fanta

Your points, though, simply had nothing, in any way, to do with the point I was making which, from my first post on the subject, has always been solely about  @Palooka's point that "Thai education system need teachers like her" which I didn't (and don't) agree with for the reasons I've said.

The rest, with others, is simply an argument and unpleasantness which has now become just abuse that I haven't provoked but I've evidently been stupid enough to react to. Mea Culpa.

 

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Yet again, why am I not surprised?

A teacher who not only thinks he knows what "everyone" thinks and who's incapable of a reasoned response, but who thinks that only teachers are entitled to opine about teaching although it's one of the few things that everyone, literally everyone, has experienced.

Some are a credit to their profession - others, sadly not.

Indeed.

Reasonable thoughts, Stonk.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, DiJoDavO said:

Everyone may have their own opinion. Even though we don't agree isn't it? If what you said should happen, I was kicked off this forum way back when I started questioning Covid

Unfortunately, far from everyone agrees with you and some just throw mud to win their arguments and if enough throw enough mud some of it's bound to stick as it evidently has - particularly if I'm stupid enough to react to it and throw some back.

For what it's worth, I don't disagree with your comments on the Thai education system at all or the difficulties of teaching on line, and I never have done, but they simply had no bearing on the point I was commenting on.

Sadly, all our points (which could well have made for an interesting debate) were buried once the mud slinging started.

[Stonker]

24 minutes ago, Rain said:

Indeed.

Reasonable thoughts, Stonk.

Thank you.

Others, though, evidently disagree .

[DiJoDavO]

I'm not on top of every comment you make on here, but seeing the following posts:

On 12/20/2021 at 9:41 PM, Stonker said:

That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness"

 

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

Another teacher blaming 'the system'. Why am I not surprised?

It might provoke people into thinking that it's not the system but all that is to blame is the teachers. 

Now you can easily say you haven't mentioned it specifically, but whenever you say that someone who can't motivate their students is not made to be a teacher, while they are in an environment where it's literally impossible to motivate them, pardon me, who also has trouble motivating them, that I might feel criticized. 

Now I wouldn't call my part throwing mud or something. Could've been way worse than what I actually have said. But you can't just drop a comment like that she's probably not made to be a teacher, while likely you haven't seen the system completely from the inside. (idk where and what you commented before, again I'm not sitting and waiting 24/7 to read a specific member's comments) 

Nowadays literally less than 15%~ of a class listens and participates, if you are teaching P4/5/6 like me. No matter if you are the best teacher or whatever. Students rather play games and don't get forced by their parents to cooperate. Mostly because they are not even at home. 

That you can't make certain students interested in learning in this case, doesn't mean someone is not made to be a teacher. If this is your point, just close all the schools and fire every teacher, because as an online teacher, you'll never be able to be more interesting than whatever games they play, Roblox, Minecraft, YouTube videos. 

[Stonker]

43 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

I'm not on top of every comment you make on here, 

I wouldn't expect you to be, but under the circumstances and that you expect me to read your posts and take umbrage when you don't think I have, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to assume that you've reciprocated and read what I've written on this thread.

43 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

 

... but seeing the following posts:

  On 12/20/2021 at 9:41 PM, Stonker said:

That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness"

  5 hours ago, Stonker said:

Another teacher blaming 'the system'. Why am I not surprised?

Expand  

... It might provoke people into thinking that it's not the system but all that is to blame is the teachers.

 

It would, but only if they completely ignored both the rest of the comments and took them completely out of context.

I made the first based on the original report in the Bangkok Post, which I quoted:

"The second reason was regarding the online teaching adopted during the Covid-19 pandemic. Ms Kanokwan said she found online learning required cooperation and readiness from students and parents -- something that was rarely achieved. She felt she was unable to achieve her teaching objectives and that it was not worth taxpayers' money."

Given that report, although you evidently disagree, I really don't think it's at all unreasonable for me to say that "That sounds to me like a teacher who couldn't handle on-line teaching and motivate her young students so blamed the parents and elementary school students for a lack of "co-operation and readiness" ".

In my view that was (and still is) exactly what the report said and that, to me, means that while she may get by as a teacher she isn't what the schools or the system "needs".

I simply can't accept that someone who gives up, walks out, and thinks that on-line teaching, whatever the difficulties, is "not worth taxpayers' money" is the sort of teacher schools need. 

I simply don't accept that.

56 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Now you can easily say you haven't mentioned it specifically, but whenever you say that someone who can't motivate their students is not made to be a teacher, while they are in an environment where it's literally impossible to motivate them, pardon me, who also has trouble motivating them, that I might feel criticized.

Well, I disagree that it's "literally impossible to motivate them".  As I said to @palooka, others are managing it, under similar circumstances, at exactly the same level, and I've seen them do it as I described in the classroom and I also see them doing it on a regular basis outside the classroom. In my view, those are the teachers schools "need", not those who give up, walk out, and see it as "not worth taxpayers' money".

1 hour ago, DiJoDavO said:

Now I wouldn't call my part throwing mud or something.

Neither would or did I - I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

1 hour ago, DiJoDavO said:

But you can't just drop a comment like that she's probably not made to be a teacher, while likely you haven't seen the system completely from the inside.

Sorry, but given the Bangkok Post report which I quoted, and that I said that was how it "sounds to me", and that I've seen others who can do the job that she can't, as I went on to say soon after as soon as it was questioned, I think I can.

1 hour ago, DiJoDavO said:

 

Nowadays literally less than 15%~ of a class listens and participates, if you are teaching P4/5/6 like me. No matter if you are the best teacher or whatever. Students rather play games and don't get forced by their parents to cooperate. Mostly because they are not even at home. 

 

But I'm not talking about you, nor am I talking about teachers in general since some can do it - as I said in my comments before you posted.

I'm talking about one teacher, who said herself that she can't do it.

1 hour ago, DiJoDavO said:

 

That you can't make certain students interested in learning in this case, doesn't mean someone is not made to be a teacher. If this is your point, just close all the schools and fire every teacher, because as an online teacher, you'll never be able to be more interesting than whatever games they play, Roblox, Minecraft, YouTube videos. 

 

That isn't my point, nor according to the Bangkok Post report and the teacher herself was that the issue.