News Forum - First local Omicron case, officials consider cancelling quarantine exemption Test & Go

[HiuMak]

Prepare to stock up toilet papers

[Stonker]

17 hours ago, Flotown said:

thanks!
 

but I can stay at a hotel (sandbox approved) in Bangkok (port of arrival in Thailand) for 7 days and then be allowed to travel around Thailand freely (after neg. tests). 

What does the Sandbox program mean? I am not allowed to leave my hotel room or can I move around the hotel freely? Am I allowed to drive to a golf course and play there and drive back to the hotel and so on?

I think that's too far outside the scope of this thread to go into here, and there are other threads on it, but I believe the latest is that if you're already registered in the Test'n'Go system you'll still be allowed to come in under it which makes other plans unnecessary.

[Stonker]

14 hours ago, astro said:

They do 'work', but not 100%.

Vaccines aren't 100% either.

It's a matter of using the best tools available.

Not necessarily the "best" but certainly the quickest and cheapest with the ATK tests.

The latest report I've seen shows that compared to PCR tests, the ATK tests detect 95% of cases found by PCR and identify 89% of negative cases. Unfortunately that means that ATK tests misidentify 1 in 20 positives as negative and more than 1 in 10 negatives as positive.

The more you test with ATK tests obviously the more you misidentify.

[Flotown]

23 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I think that's too far outside the scope of this thread to go into here, and there are other threads on it, but I believe the latest is that if you're already registered in the Test'n'Go system you'll still be allowed to come in under it which makes other plans unnecessary.

okay, appreciate the feedback.

[Stonker]

21 hours ago, Convert54 said:

... since the appearance of covid-19 nobody including myself in the local community has suffered even a sniffle since January 2020 which incidentally was when a symptomatically different infection was also widespread in the local community

I have to confess that I couldn't really follow the drift of much of your post, but it's hardly surprising that there have been few other respiratory issues and "sniffles" - after all, people are wearing masks and taking precautions for Covid that also protect against all other diseases that are spread in the same way.

 

 

[Rain]

10 hours ago, HiuMak said:

Prepare to stock up toilet papers

Bum guns are much more civilised and less polluting.

[Lorenzo58]

On 12/20/2021 at 5:27 PM, Jason said:

Yes, you could close the borders again. But thinking that would stop the spread of Omicron is like saying that closing the borders against Delta, worked....it didn't. Omicron is coming...that is as certain as the tide rising BUT, we don't know yet what Omicron will do. It's too early to tell. So hold your nerve and chill Thailand!!! Yes this variant will spread...rapidly. But if it turns out Omicron is mild and maybe even the last throws of Covid, before it becomes just another Flu, then Thailand stands to lose out .....majorly. The best course of action, I think, is to keep to the current conditions of entry. Test and go, sandbox and ASQ gives enough safeguards. It would also be wise to keep the PCR test going in all circumstances. Maybe add extra PCR tests for those coming from places where Omicron is emerging and reduce the countries that qualify for test and go.

spoken like a Singaporean i know....

[astro]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Not necessarily the "best" but certainly the quickest and cheapest with the ATK tests.

The latest report I've seen shows that compared to PCR tests, the ATK tests detect 95% of cases found by PCR and identify 89% of negative cases. Unfortunately that means that ATK tests misidentify 1 in 20 positives as negative and more than 1 in 10 negatives as positive.

The more you test with ATK tests obviously the more you misidentify.

We were talking PCR tests, or I was at least.

As for ATK tests, been getting them twice a week for the last year or so, due to my occupation.

No false negs or pos, nor with the sporadic PCR I've had. Nor any of my collegues.

Not perfect, but a workable compromise.

Can you suggest anything better?

[Stonker]

2 minutes ago, astro said:

We were talking PCR tests, or I was at least.

Sorry if I quoted you mistakenly, but the post you quoted wasn't - two of the tests that particular person had were ATK tests.

5 minutes ago, astro said:

As for ATK tests, been getting them twice a week for the last year or so, due to my occupation.

No false negs or pos, nor with the sporadic PCR I've had. Nor any of my collegues.

But how do you know  - and I'm only half-joking ?

That stat wasn't just one I plucked out of thin air, but was from the most extensive study available, by Queen Mary University (London), Oxford University, the Institute for Advanced Studies (Vienna) and Graz University and it actually rates them higher than many others.

7 minutes ago, astro said:

Not perfect, but a workable compromise.

Can you suggest anything better?

In this case, PCR tests and quarantine until the results are through.  Not only because they'd be more effective, but because rightly or wrongly people here think they're more effective so some of the trust that's been lost may be restored, and a lot of the antipathy to tourists by those not in the tourism industry could be balanced out.

[Convert54]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

I have to confess that I couldn't really follow the drift of much of your post, but it's hardly surprising that there have been few other respiratory issues and "sniffles" - after all, people are wearing masks and taking precautions for Covid that also protect against all other diseases that are spread in the same way.

I can appreciate that my post was perhaps a little obscure because I have the habit of typing as I think.

[MrNovax]

19 hours ago, astro said:

They do 'work', but not 100%.

 

not a 100%, the article had this person tested several times.  I'd encourage you to look up what Kary Mullis (inventor of PCR) said about using it as a diagnostic tool.  

[Stonker]

29 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

I'd encourage you to look up what Kary Mullis (inventor of PCR) said about using it as a diagnostic tool.  

I did, when this point was first raised.

https://fullfact.org/online/pcr-test-mullis/

[MrNovax]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

https://fullfact.org/online/pcr-test-mullis/

"fact checkers"  , why not listen to his actual words?

 

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, MrNovax said:

"fact checkers"  , why not listen to his actual words?

I did that too, but the full version not the edited one you've given.

It's from a 1997 interview specifically about HIV / AIDS, which he didn't believe were linked hence his comments which have since been taken out of that context to give them a totally different meaning.

Since then, nearly 25 years ago, PCR tests and technology have moved on.

 

[MrNovax]

36 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I did that too, but the full version not the edited one you've given.

It's from a 1997 interview specifically about HIV / AIDS, which he didn't believe were linked hence his comments which have since been taken out of that context to give them a totally different meaning.

Since then, nearly 25 years ago, PCR tests and technology have moved on.

What about Mr, Fauci?

 

And even the CDC is pulling away from these tests

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by MrNovax

[Stonker]

8 hours ago, MrNovax said:

What about Mr, Fauci?

And even the CDC is pulling away from these tests

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

What about him?

As with Mullis, it's a carefully edited soundbite taken out of any context - and without any date, which is all-important as his views on testing and masks have changed dramatically as the science has changed.

As for your CDC link, the reason for the change is very clearly stated and has nothing to do with accuracy but is to "save time and resources as we head into influenza season": 

"CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season."

Very different to what you're suggesting which was that they don't work.

[Jason]

Who knows...we might end up having Omicron parties, like we did with chicken pox, so that everyone gets it young and never has it again!?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Who knows...we might end up having Omicron parties, like we did with chicken pox, so that everyone gets it young and never has it again!?

.....yet, there are shingles contagions to consider. 

It's always something. 

Always be afraid. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

.....yet, there are shingles contagions to consider. 

It's always something. 

Always be afraid. 

thanks for being a party pooper

[Jason]

I've already had chickenpox as an adult.....worst illness I ever had...almost died from it. 

[DiJoDavO]

Haha wtf

Anutin yesterday: Covid stands no chance against Thailand and is inferior to Thailand!

Anutin today: Oh fck it's here, lock your doors!

[MrNovax]

10 hours ago, Stonker said:

What about him?

As with Mullis, it's a carefully edited soundbite taken out of any context - and without any date, which is all-important as his views on testing and masks have changed dramatically as the science has changed.

As for your CDC link, the reason for the change is very clearly stated and has nothing to do with accuracy but is to "save time and resources as we head into influenza season": 

"CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season."

Very different to what you're suggesting which was that they don't work.

The date isnt important.  "science" does change over time, if its factual it factual.  It amazes me how people advocate to cut of your ears and stab out your eyes and just believe the narrative.  Both of these are perfectly in context.  Mullis was speaking about diagnostic use of the PCR.  The talk was on Aids but he clearly opened his comment to mean it to apply universily.   "You can find anything in anything"  That is completely different than saying "you can find HIV in a person."   There are videos of random people testing orange juice, fruits, and other inanimate objects with covid tests and coming up positive.  

[Stonker]

14 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

 There are videos of random people testing orange juice, fruits, and other inanimate objects with covid tests and coming up positive.  

The test has to be used in accordance with the manufacturers' instructions, like any other test or piece of equipment.

Saying you can test an orange and get a positive result so the test is useless is like saying a thermometer is useless for checking your temperature because you can put it in ice or a fire to get the reading you want, or a tape measure is useless for checking length or height as you may not pull it straight .

23 minutes ago, MrNovax said:

The date isnt important.  "science" does change over time, if its factual it factual.  It amazes me how people advocate to cut of your ears and stab out your eyes and just believe the narrative.  Both of these are perfectly in context.  Mullis was speaking about diagnostic use of the PCR.  The talk was on Aids but he clearly opened his comment to mean it to apply universily.   "You can find anything in anything"  That is completely different than saying "you can find HIV in a person."  

The full video is self explanatory, as is the significance of his comment given his views on HIV /AIDS which is what he was referring to and arguing about which you seem unaware of.

That apart, what he meant at the time is moot as it was after ten years of development that he hadn't been involved in and before over twenty years of further development between then and now.

Whatever he meant at the time is out of date given how the tests have been developed over thirty years.

I'm getting deja vu with this, as it's a direct repetition of what happens when this was raised before, as it has been a number of times.  As soon as one link or claim is shown to not say what's claimed, then that's ignored and another false claim is made in it's place, then another, ad nauseam.

[Alavan]

4 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

Haha wtf

Anutin yesterday: Covid stands no chance against Thailand and is inferior to Thailand!

Anutin today: Oh fck it's here, lock your doors!

Does that makes him Comical Anutin (cfr comical Ali)?

[MrNovax]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

The full video is self explanatory,

Have you watched the full video?  This is one question from a long segment and is completely in context.  

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

The test has to be used in accordance with the manufacturers' instructions,

Yes, there are videos of people following the procedures perfectly and finding false positives on inanimate objects.

This story and whole conversation started with a person coming into the country and testing negative multiple times, therefore was allowed to proceed only to find out the tests (plural) gave a false negative according the the official story.  Elon Musk tweeted earlier in the year taking 4 tests administered by doctors (and id speculate some of the best in the world) and getting two positives and two negatives in the same day.  

In light of all of this you keep repeating the same talking point from the "fact checkers" that we are supposed to look past all of the evidence and without providing anything that would amount to a shred of credibility for using this as a diagnostic tool.