UFO’s and Alien Abductions: Are they real?

[KaptainRob]

47 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Or do you grab some unwashed redneck in the woods and conduct intensely invasive procedures on him usually involving his bottom.

It seems they go for option B every single time. 

As a highly intelligent species you would wouldn't you?

I'd grab all the sweet little Thai girls off Soi 4. 

 

46 minutes ago, Faraday said:

Yes, other civilisations could be 100,000 years ahead of us.

The Wright brothers achievement was just 120 years ago.

By our current understanding of 'the laws of physics' it is impossible to travel those vast distances. I'm sure this understanding will be completely different in perhaps 200 years.

Altogether a valid argument! 

21 years ago I was sailing up a remote part of Australia's coast following the same track James Cook had sailed on his voyage of 'discovery',  a mere 230 years earlier.  1770.

I had a WTF moment when considering my modern yacht, complete with engine, NavAids and Comms compared with what the Endeavour crew used ... sextant/sun/moon and stars + a lead-line to chart the depths.  230 years suddenly did not seem that long a period in modern history.

[Rookiescot]

24 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I'd grab all the sweet little Thai girls off Soi 4. 

Altogether a valid argument! 

21 years ago I was sailing up a remote part of Australia's coast following the same track James Cook had sailed on his voyage of 'discovery',  a mere 230 years earlier.  1770.

I had a WTF moment when considering my modern yacht, complete with engine, NavAids and Comms compared with what the Endeavour crew used ... sextant/sun/moon and stars + a lead-line to chart the depths.  230 years suddenly did not seem that long a period in modern history.

Thing is even more confusing that when you consider that even up to the 1950's people were still doing it the way Captain Cook did it.

Technology has really exploded since then though.

I sometimes wonder what my daughter will think in 20 or 30 years time when she's in a car driving itself and remembers her dad using a manual gearbox (hate automatics) and a roadmap.

I imagine she will come to the conclusion there is a lot less swearing and rude gestures than in the old days.

[Rookiescot]

51 minutes ago, Rain said:

A bit too complicated for you, isn't it RS?

Ah so your with the intensive bottom research group.

Makes sense.

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

There are some that suggest that the numerous varieties of extraterrestrials that have been observing and interacting with us [for ages] are us in the very distant future - 

Time portals to parallel universes. 

Mind spin thinking about that one....ha ha

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, Smithydog said:

Agree, Inconceivable for us with our current and scientific and intelligence level. But what if they are far more advanced?

I am not expecting one to suddenly drop by the farm here and say "Earthling, take me to your leader" but I do like to allow the mind to wander and think what may be possible. 

After all, think of what the technology we have now would seem like to a caveman!

I am equally sure if they wanted to abduct me and experiment on my quality human body, someone must have put them up to it as a gag!

That is the paradox. Logic, a word that is not always applied to this subject, would say that with all the logistics involved, it could not have happened yet. But if that is wrong, it will be because they are incredibly so much more advanced than we are.

But travelling at light speed, it's still a 4.5 year one way journey. How big does that have to be just to supply one crew. We've been talking about going to Mars since Armstrong set foot on the moon, and that's a 6 month each way trip when the planets are lined up.

 

[Rookiescot]

19 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

That is the paradox. Logic, a word that is not always applied to this subject, would say that with all the logistics involved, it could not have happened yet. But if that is wrong, it will be because they are incredibly so much more advanced than we are.

But travelling at light speed, it's still a 4.5 year one way journey. How big does that have to be just to supply one crew. We've been talking about going to Mars since Armstrong set foot on the moon, and that's a 6 month each way trip when the planets are lined up.

Thing is physics stops you traveling at the speed of light never mind beyond it.

As soon as you introduce mass to the equation you cant get near it.

So you are going to build a spaceship. It has mass. You put a bigger engine on it. Engine needs more fuel which means more mass. Rinse and repeat.

We cant even get single electrons to travel at the speed of light (and virtually all scientists agree that a single electron is very, very, very, small) because it has mass. Light is a waveform. It has no mass but even it cant exceed a maximum speed.

Wormholes via black holes? Every part of anything which falls into a black hole is stretched because of the extreme gravitational forces so much that it simply becomes a string of atoms.

Nothing survives.

[JohninDublin]

23 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Thing is physics stops you traveling at the speed of light never mind beyond it.

As soon as you introduce mass to the equation you cant get near it.

So you are going to build a spaceship. It has mass. You put a bigger engine on it. Engine needs more fuel which means more mass. Rinse and repeat.

We cant even get single electrons to travel at the speed of light (and virtually all scientists agree that a single electron is very, very, very, small) because it has mass. Light is a waveform. It has no mass but even it cant exceed a maximum speed.

Wormholes via black holes? Every part of anything which falls into a black hole is stretched because of the extreme gravitational forces so much that it simply becomes a string of atoms.

Nothing survives.

Yes!. That really is a difficult circle to square. I remember hearing in the 70's on a science prog, that we wanted to send a craft to Alpha Centauri, it would require half the planet's known fuel and power reserves. How big would that have to be just to deal with the fuel's payload.

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Yes!. That really is a difficult circle to square. I remember hearing in the 70's on a science prog, that we wanted to send a craft to Alpha Centauri, it would require half the planet's known fuel and power reserves. How big would that have to be just to deal with the fuel's payload.

Its worse than that. As you get closer to the speed of light mass increases. 

You would need infinite energy to accelerate an electron to the speed of light. It cant be done otherwise the universe would already be doing it.

[oldschooler]

such beings could only be coming from different dimensions. not from other solar systems (too far). nor from the future ( impossible). not using wormholes (detectable by humans ?) .but there would be evidence ( usaf “tic tac” ufo video / witnessing; could be human tech ?) but there is no physical evidence.

[JamesE]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Thing is physics stops you traveling at the speed of light never mind beyond it.

Ed. Note: "Physics, as we understand it,..."

You have to remember that "modern" physics - mechanics, electricity, relativity, quantum, astro, etc. - is just over 300 years old (Principia was published in 1687). Yet we feel we've got a handle on reality. The truth is much more frightening: we only understand about 5% (https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy) of what the universe is even made of to say nothing about how that 90% behaves. Consider that a three-year-old probably understands 5% about driving a car. We've got a long way to go before we say anything about "physics stops you" about anything beyond mechanics or electricity.

However, to the point of the topic, I can think of exactly one reason why an advanced civilization would find us interesting enough to bother stopping off at planet Earth (other than to refuel...) and that is The Great Filter. For those of you who get their science off of YouTube I recommend the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjtOGPJ0URM. Simply put, The Great Filter is an answer to Fermi's Paradox which asks "If there are so many planets, where are all the aliens?" Now, despite the insanely large number of planets in our galaxy predicted by current observation (up to 8 trillion (https://www.universetoday.com/30296/how-many-planets-are-in-the-galaxy/)) and the relatively small size of the Milky Way (+/- 200,000 light-years in diameter), two factors which should conspire to leave us awash in the electrical emanations of a populated galaxy, we see exactly bupkis. The Filter basically states that any technological, intelligent life develops their technology to the point where they extinct themselves.

As with any other rule, there would be exceptions, and The Filter would see some civilizations squeezing through maintaining both their intelligence and technology. Now, given the short time period between the development of high technology and the beginning of the crises which precipitate a civilizations demise (based on the one example we know of) is just a century or two (I'm pinning high-tech's birth on the invention of the steam engine in the late 1600s). So, despite the large number of planets, at any moment in time there will be a very small number of civilizations (0 to 1) smacking into The Great Filter.

This makes us very interesting and worthy of sending anthropologists (in the truest sense of the word) to this miserable collection of planets on a distant arm of the Milky Way to study what happens and to see why a civilization either passes the test (as they did) or fails miserably (as we are).

Study - an extension of our innate curiosity - is exactly what we do when we encounter something in peril. From dying tribes and societies, to failing languages, to our collapsing environment, we send out thousands to document, correlate, predict, and, ultimately, just sit and watch it happen. Just like our extra-terrestrial visitors.

 

[Smithydog]

One of the things that causes me to think the real reason we are unable to find proof of life beyond us is the simple fact that, whilst we may be curious, we are relative poor in exploring. We haven't even explored all of our own planet yet, despite has not even having to travel above the earth to do it.

Much of our oceans alone remain unexplored. The following article suggests as much as 80%!

https://oceana.org/blog/why-does-so-much-ocean-remain-unexplored-and-unprotected/

Why should we expect to be able to explore beyond our world when we can't even cover off our own?

I was sitting here just now, listening to the birds chirping and realised how rare it was, when looking through my window at the farm fields beyond, to see a bird actually fly past, let alone capture a picture of it. If you equate the same to a telescope looking at a part of the heavens, something flying past has to pass in a miniscule area at the time you are looking to be actually seen.

We have only so far explored the universe in micro percentages, along the way making assumptions as to what we think we see or saw. Not unlike UFO sightings!

It is often a challenge for amateur astronomers to pinpoint an object in the night sky knowing where something is roughly supposed to be at a given time. (e.g. the International Space Station). How hard would it then be to spot something you have no idea of what it is and where it will be at a point in time.

At least I have the birds chirping to let me know they are around!

Perhaps we are looking the wrong way and a vast alternative civilisation with flying subs does survive in the ocean yet to be found! (Perhaps even Aquaman and Atlantis are really real and not a story or movie! )

 

[steve860]

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So. You are a highly advanced species capable of defying the laws of physics and travel at multiple times the speed of light. 

Do you land on the Whitehouse lawn and introduce yourself?

Or do you grab some unwashed redneck in the woods and conduct intensely invasive procedures on him usually involving his bottom.

It seems they go for option B every single time. 

As a highly intelligent species you would wouldn't you?

 

[Saltire]

As a mathematics graduate I have to agree that statistically the odds as in favour of life on another planet, however I belong to the seeing is believing group so if there have been visitors from another world am waiting on absolute proof.

Same with God really

Very well written and interesting post though, thanks.

[TukTuk]

What do you think the US government is guarding so closely in Area 51?

[KaptainRob]

10 minutes ago, TukTuk said:

What do you think the US government is guarding so closely in Area 51?

According to this BBC article > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49568127

 

What goes on there today?

Although official information is sparse, it is believed that the US military continues to use Area 51 to develop cutting-edge aircraft. About 1,500 people are believed to work there, many commuting on charter flights from Las Vegas.

Annie Jacobsen, who has written about the history of Area 51, told the BBC that some of the world's most advanced espionage programmes are at the site.

"Area 51 is a test and training facility. The research began with the U-2 spy plane in the 1950s and has now moved on to drones", she says.

 

[Rain]

8 hours ago, TukTuk said:

What do you think the US government is guarding so closely in Area 51?

Area 51 is so passe' - 

There are much more important "secret" facilities that seem to be the target these days.

[Rain]

10 hours ago, Smithydog said:

One of the things that causes me to think the real reason we are unable to find proof of life beyond us is the simple fact that, whilst we may be curious, we are relative poor in exploring. We haven't even explored all of our own planet yet, despite has not even having to travel above the earth to do it.

Much of our oceans alone remain unexplored. The following article suggests as much as 80%!

https://oceana.org/blog/why-does-so-much-ocean-remain-unexplored-and-unprotected/

Why should we expect to be able to explore beyond our world when we can't even cover off our own?

I was sitting here just now, listening to the birds chirping and realised how rare it was, when looking through my window at the farm fields beyond, to see a bird actually fly past, let alone capture a picture of it. If you equate the same to a telescope looking at a part of the heavens, something flying past has to pass in a miniscule area at the time you are looking to be actually seen.

We have only so far explored the universe in micro percentages, along the way making assumptions as to what we think we see or saw. Not unlike UFO sightings!

It is often a challenge for amateur astronomers to pinpoint an object in the night sky knowing where something is roughly supposed to be at a given time. (e.g. the International Space Station). How hard would it then be to spot something you have no idea of what it is and where it will be at a point in time.

At least I have the birds chirping to let me know they are around!

Perhaps we are looking the wrong way and a vast alternative civilisation with flying subs does survive in the ocean yet to be found! (Perhaps even Aquaman and Atlantis are really real and not a story or movie! )

When it's all said and done, we might take a good and honest look at ourselves. 

Indoctrinated to consider ourselves so terribly special and developed. 

We're not that.

[Convert54]

A newer consideration that has some degree of seriousness involves a modified definition of "our"existence as holographic which involves a distortion of dimensions .

The apparent reality that regardless  of how or when the universal phenomenon began there is no measurable limit to it . All that "exists" in human terms of comprehension exists "somewhere that is nowhere" which could be explained that our existence is a brain fart from an entity in true reality. A mere concept.

 

 

[oldschooler]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:24 PM, Rain said:

When it's all said and done, we might take a good and honest look at ourselves. 

Indoctrinated to consider ourselves so terribly special and developed. 

We're not that.

Disagree. Humanity is Unique. In Genius & Brutality. Alone. 
DaVinci Mozart Einstein Socrates types can’t possibly exist elsewhere…sorry.

[oldschooler]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:07 PM, Convert54 said:

A newer consideration that has some degree of seriousness involves a modified definition of "our"existence as holographic which involves a distortion of dimensions .

The apparent reality that regardless  of how or when the universal phenomenon began there is no measurable limit to it . All that "exists" in human terms of comprehension exists "somewhere that is nowhere" which could be explained that our existence is a brain fart from an entity in true reality. A mere concept.

Extreme high mindedness dehumanizes, serves no purpose and paves the road to hell. Examples: Communism, Religion.

[Marble-eye]

Look at how close this meteor came to hitting the visitor centre in the Arizona desert and tell me there wasn't any alien intervention.

 

[riclag]

Me thinks the people of this world will be in for a rude awakening if a similar life being exists!

Most definitely there will be  battles to be won , people to conquer and lands and natural resources to control !

War of the worlds so to speak

Human nature!

[DesperateOldHand]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:32 AM, KaptainRob said:

I'd grab all the sweet little Thai girls off Soi 4. 

Altogether a valid argument! 

21 years ago I was sailing up a remote part of Australia's coast following the same track James Cook had sailed on his voyage of 'discovery',  a mere 230 years earlier.  1770.

I had a WTF moment when considering my modern yacht, complete with engine, NavAids and Comms compared with what the Endeavour crew used ... sextant/sun/moon and stars + a lead-line to chart the depths.  230 years suddenly did not seem that long a period in modern history.

And most of that historied nautical knowledge/mechanics was obtained by the Chinese, who had completed charted coastal Aust some 350 years earlier. 

[DesperateOldHand]

15 hours ago, riclag said:

Me thinks the people of this world will be in for a rude awakening if a similar life being exists!

Most definitely there will be  battles to be won , people to conquer and lands and natural resources to control !

War of the worlds so to speak

Human nature!

Who's to say that these advanced species haven't been "tending their garden" here for ages. 

The harvest might occur when you least expect it.

[oldschooler]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:15 AM, DesperateOldHand said:

And most of that historied nautical knowledge/mechanics was obtained by the Chinese, who had completed charted coastal Aust some 350 years earlier. 

Evidenced by …….? Chinese exploration & trading fleet reached India and East -Africa 1442 then Emperor said China is now Closed opening way for 500 years of European / Western world domination.