UFO’s and Alien Abductions: Are they real?

[JohninDublin]

 

Let me start with a disclaimer. This is very much American phenomena and therefore most of the references I make will be to the US. It does not mean I am indulging in “Yank bashing”.

Anyway, I am no scientist. I might be wrong, but this is what I understand.

Until the mid-1990’s it was believed the Earth and our Solar System were unique. It had planets and some of those planets were capable of sustaining life. Then they started discovering other planets. There are over 500 known to date, and most weeks, another is discovered.

The fact there are other planets, does not automatically mean there is life on them. In order to sustain life, the current knowledge is water is essential. The further a planet is away from the star in its own solar system, the colder it will be, the more likely it will be covered in ice and though it has water, it is no use for sustaining life. On the other hand, the closer it is to the star, the hotter it will be, and too hot, it will be incapable of sustaining life as we know it. Cue Star Trek theme. So, of all the planets discovered so far, only those within a certain range of a star will be capable of sustaining life. This does not mean there is life on any of these. However, I will qualify that by saying, in a Universe where there are billions of stars, it seems unbelievable to me we are the only planet with life, let alone intelligent life. I believe statistically, there must be life on other planets, including intelligent life.

Where I do have problems is in believing they have been visiting our planet. The reason for this is the distances involved. The nearest star to our sun is Alpha Centauri (AC), 4.5 light-years away. A planet has been discovered in that system. Whether it’s close enough to AC to sustain life, I couldn’t tell you. What I can tell you is when we launch spacecraft, they travel at 17,000 mph through space, and it would take about 180000 years for a rocket launched from this planet to reach AC.

If we have been visited by another planet, it seems logical to presume they are well ahead of us technologically. But by how much? 4.5 light-years is about 27 trillion miles. If their rockets can reach 1,000,000 MPH, a journey would take about 3100 years. At 10 mill MPH, about 310 years.  If it could travel at the speed of light, it would still take 4.5 years. Presume it is manned, and then start to think about how big it would have to be, supply just one crew member. Presume the pilot wants to return home after his trip, and now you have to double the size of the craft.

Of course, one explanation of how this might be achieved is the “Worm Hole” Theory. As I’ve said, I am not a scientist, and I am not sure I understand it, or can even clearly explain what I think it is, but I’ll try.The theory appears to be based on the proven concept; space is curved. If you can imagine the Universe as the spindle from a toilet-roll.Go around one side to the other, you will eventually arrive back where you started from.

But imagine you are looking at the spindle-like it’s a telescope. Rotate it 90 degrees, and there are two holes at 1 degree and 359 degrees, instead of travelling the full 360 degrees, you go through the hole and suddenly you are on the other side of the Universe. This also allows for the possibility of time travel. Of course, it’s just a theory and as far as time travel is concerned, the fact we have yet to have evidence of visitors from the past or future suggests that it will remain a theory.

So have we been visited by Aliens? My view is that the logistics of this are such, as to make it near impossible. But here’s a thought for you. If I am wrong and Aliens are sending back live feed to Planet X in the AC system, it will be just about now; they will be watching Usain Bolt’s attempt to win his 7^th, 8^th and 9^th Gold medals in Rio.

So how do I explain Alien Abductions, if it’s unlikely we have ever been visited by aliens, or that they even exist? 

Well, the first thing to say about this, is many of the “abductees” have been interviewed by eminent Psychiatrists and Psychologists, and the general consensus from these sources is these people are not lying, and they do believe it happened to them. Think of all those people in the US who believe that the 2020 election was or wasn’t stolen? If you believe something to be true, you might be mistaken, but saying what you believe does not mean you are lying.

So whatever I believe about the unlikelihood of visitors from another planet, I will not accuse these people of being liars.

But one of the first things that occur to me, is how the US with about 4.5% of the planet’s population, has over 90% of all “known” abductions. Now add to that, the Psych’s perception of the sincerity of abductees, and I think I might have an explanation for much of this mainly US phenomenon.

Cast your minds back to the ’80s and ’90s. Two of the regular topics we used to see in those days were Crop Circles and False Incest Memory stories. With regard to the first, I mention it because those were often quickly debunked as practical jokes, but it also coincided with an increase in UFO sightings, and stories were also gaining currency about alien abductions.

In those days, there were plenty of people who looked at these stories, and wondered if we were really being visited by extraterrestrial beings? One thing I found strange is I never read about African Americans being abducted. One possible explanation was they are more likely to live in urban locations, and all abductions were reported in rural locations. Another possible explanation, which I shall explain shortly, is due to them usually being less wealthy than white people, they were far less likely to use the services of Psychiatrists, Analysts, etc. Incidentally, and just an appropriate aside, in the early days of Psychiatry, etc, these people were often called “Alienists”. Bear that in mind as you read the rest of my post.

And at the same time, again almost exclusively in the US, we were reading a slew of stories about ritual sexual abuse of children by Satanists and even sacrifices. Unusual as these stories were, what was more unusual is these were never stories of police coming across such activities. These were all sourced from young men and women years after the event and “came to light” after being hypnotised by shrinks.

What would happen, is Billy Jo would be unhappy and could find no reason why this should be so. A friend would tell him/her that he used to feel like that too until he went to visit his/her analyst. They then went to see the Analyst or whatever and underwent hypnosis. The thing many people don’t know about hypnosis is the more suggestible the subject is, the easier it is to use hypnosis.

So, he puts someone into a trance-like state that is relatively young, maybe in late teens or early ’20s, he starts out with the assumption if there is any trauma in their life, it probably happened when they were kids. And he starts by saying, “I want you to go back to when you were 7 years old and tell me what you see”. An incoherent response and the next question is, “Are you alone”? Then maybe another incoherent response from someone who is effectively talking in their sleep. “Is Daddy with you”? “What is he doing”?

It needs to be added at this stage, that the shrink has heard plenty of recent stories about child sexual abuse coming to light as a result of hypnosis. He wants to rule that out, but as the session goes on, he asks more and more pointedly leading questions, and because he is dealing with someone who now has a 7-year-old mindset, the patient does what many kids that age do, and tries to please the adult. The shrink’s behaviour is not unique. Videos of such interviews have been shown of Social Workers investigating claims of abuse using exactly this technique on real 7 yr olds.

All over the US, there were thousands of cases reported of child sex abuse being discovered as “repressed memories” by hypnosis.

It all came to a head when one shrink started linking several children in one town to a single Satanic Cult. Basically, through leading questions he was able every time he “treated” one of these people who were in their twenties, to eventually get a picture of all the parents, dressed in black robes, abusing each other’s children. He managed to find two girls who corroborated each other’s story about being at the same event when they were, say 7. All the parents were horrified at what their own children were accusing them of. But the accusations quickly imploded.

Regarding the two children who corroborated each other, one set was a Military family who was stationed in Germany when they were claimed to have been in the US taking part in these acts. Parents started suing, and very soon after, Insurers withdrew cover for such claims. I’d like to tell you it ended happily ever after, but some of the patients could not believe they could have been deluded, albeit unintentionally, into thinking this had happened, unless it actually had. Even though many of the analysts who were sued, conceded their practices were sloppy, some of the patients broke off contact with their parents, because they could not be convinced this was a false planted memory.

By now, anyone reading this must be thinking I’ve gone seriously off-topic, but there is a connection with this and supposed alien abductions. Youngsters were still feeling sad, and people were still saying to them, “I know a great shrink. He helped me. You should pay him a visit”. And there were those who did. They underwent hypnosis and discovered the reason for their anguish, is they had a repressed memory of being abducted and sexually abused by aliens. Suddenly, all the cases of being ritually sexually abused by Satanist parents disappeared. What is the chance of an alien suing one of these shrinks?

I did mention earlier Alien Abduction is, as far as I know, a “white thing”. I suspect the same applies to most of those who were “sexually abused”. Maybe an explanation is, not only are black people more likely to be urban dwellers but not too many of them can afford to spend $100 for an hour’s session with a shrink each week.

One of the things I never discovered from the investigations by shrinks, is how many of the “abductees”, were reporting repressed memories after visiting other shrinks. One possible explanation for that is the potential headline, “Shrinks suggest visiting a shrink can make you crazy”. Not good for business, I think.

So, my conclusions are that (1) I think it is highly unlikely we have been visited by aliens because of the logistics. (2) No Aliens = No alien abductions.

I think it’s fair to say, that though I can find some humour in the subject, I have not gratuitously mocked those who believed they were abducted. I’ve also not even touched on the myriad of credible sightings of UFO’s, or as they are now called, UAP’s . The “U” in both cases means: Unidentified or Unexplained. Readers may have seen one, in which case, I’d be interested to hear of their experience. I can’t speak for others, but I do promise anyone that wants to write about their experience, will not be mocked by me.

As I said, I am not a scientist. Every few years, we hear about a new scientific discovery, especially in Astrophysics, accompanied by the saying, “This discovery will rewrite the laws of science”. Who is to say that as far as the logistics of interstellar travel are concerned, the Aliens have not rewritten the laws of science, and forgotten to tell me about it. On that basis, I could be wrong!

 

 

[WilliamG]

Too much for my intelligent brain. LOL

[Rain]

Yes.

And yes. 

 

 

Next.....

[Chatogaster]

This is very much like an invitation to share personal convictions where it is (almost) promised they will not run heavily into posterior counter-arguments, for the simple reason that most common counter-arguments have already been postulated a priori.

If you're truly interested in people's beliefs and how they rationalize them, a short open-ended question would have sufficed and it wouldn't have imposed the current filters.

Perhaps I'm too scientifically orientated, but I really find it hard to see how the phrasing of the actual question and the presumed goal can be result in a long-lived, interesting thread (but this is just a social medium which - although I find it entertaining - I don't claim to truly understand).

[Rain]

Extraterrestrial DNA is among a goodly percentage of us.

[JamesE]

There are actually closer to 4,000 already-observed planets, not 500.

[JohninDublin]

6 hours ago, Chatogaster said:

This is very much like an invitation to share personal convictions where it is (almost) promised they will not run heavily into posterior counter-arguments, for the simple reason that most common counter-arguments have already been postulated a priori.

If you're truly interested in people's beliefs and how they rationalize them, a short open-ended question would have sufficed and it wouldn't have imposed the current filters.

Perhaps I'm too scientifically orientated, but I really find it hard to see how the phrasing of the actual question and the presumed goal can be result in a long-lived, interesting thread (but this is just a social medium which - although I find it entertaining - I don't claim to truly understand).

No! My request for other peoples experiences, was an afterthought, and was about UFO's that they have seen. The likelihood of there being an abductee on this forum is very remote. UFO's are real apart from the occasional optical illusion. Where are the imposed filters in that?

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, JamesE said:

There are actually closer to 4,000 already-observed planets, not 500.

Thanks for the update. I suppose my comment about "weekly", is also out of date too.

[Smithydog]

Sure some UFOs have been shown to be fake or just done in good humour/jest. But considering the number of galaxies out there, filled with stars, it could be arrogant to think we are the only life in the universe that thinks it is intelligent.

In a galaxy far, far away, life may exist beyond our intelligence or ability to recognise. After all, we are the ones defining "intelligent" for others and they may look upon us with scorn as a child like breed still in its infancy and simply a fascination. For all we know, our planet could be used simply like a "roadside rest stop" along interstellar highways that we know nothing about. 

 

[Smithydog]

For the record, to my knowledge, I have never been abducted by aliens or a UFO, although I can quite categorically say that I have been in business meetings in the past where I wished someone or something would abduct me!

I have though been accused of seemingly speaking in a alien language when heavily inebriated with Tequila!

[Faraday]

Haven't got an opinion on the abductions.

UFO's, there must be alien craft from other planets.

I see that the beeb when they have a report of a sighting, still say 'little green men'. 

Perhaps though, if there was full disclosure, it would frighten the life out of some people, as it did in the 1938 radio broadcast:

https://www.livescience.com/63958-war-of-the-worlds-aliens.html

Therefore, their existence is very slowly being leaked out to us globally in the world. *

 

The guy  - UFO Lou from Australia, posts some remarkable events.

 

 

* Yes, dear readers, it was a joke*

 

 

 

 

 

[Smithydog]

UFOs, aliens and Thailand. Article from the Bangkok Post which may interest some and yet also give a laugh to sceptics. It has something for everyone. 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/social-and-lifestyle/1735295/beam-me-up-

 

[Bluesofa]

17 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

UFO’s and Alien Abductions: Are they real?

I'd say 'surreal' is a better word to describe it.

[Faraday]

Dr Stephen Greer, does some fascinating stuff. He was an ER Physician & now concentrates on Ufology.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer

 

 Many videos under the heading of  Witness Testimony on YouTube.

 

 

 

 

 

[Faraday]

This video, ladies, gentlemen & anyone else on the Spectrum, proves without doubt, that there is life on other planet's.

 

 

 

[Andrew Reeve]

 

The first recored sighting in Ireland was in 1679 However, when 16 residents of “Poins-Town” in Tipperary, Ireland had their eyewitness accounts published in a book entitled  “the divers and most strange and prodigious apparitions seen in the air”.

This book is exceptionally rare and recalls the sightings of "something like a ship," It relates to the reports made by a Mc C Hewetson and a Mr R Foster, as well as others who observed the unexplained flying objects. In 1679.

 

[JohninDublin]

4 hours ago, Faraday said:

Dr Stephen Greer, does some fascinating stuff. He was an ER Physician & now concentrates on Ufology.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer

 Many videos under the heading of  Witness Testimony on YouTube.

Quite apart from my own scepticism, that aliens are capable  of visiting us, I have even greater doubts about the tales of recovery of dead aliens and similar. 

There are quite a few stories about these, but there is never any physical evidence is the first red-flag. Another that I have alluded to in the OP, is why do all or nearly all these stories focus on the US? It has 4% of the population and 6% of the land mass, but 90%+ of all these activities are reported in the US.

Then of course, there is the golden rule of conspiracies, the more people you involve, the more likely it is to fail.

I do believe in sightings, but these are called unidentified/unexplained for a reason.

[JohninDublin]

6 hours ago, Smithydog said:

Sure some UFOs have been shown to be fake or just done in good humour/jest. But considering the number of galaxies out there, filled with stars, it could be arrogant to think we are the only life in the universe that thinks it is intelligent.

In a galaxy far, far away, life may exist beyond our intelligence or ability to recognise. After all, we are the ones defining "intelligent" for others and they may look upon us with scorn as a child like breed still in its infancy and simply a fascination. For all we know, our planet could be used simply like a "roadside rest stop" along interstellar highways that we know nothing about. 

I'd say, that statistically, that is almost a certainty regarding intelligent life. Why I'm unable to conceive of them having actually visited us, is because of the logistics of building and provisioning a craft capable of a 4.5 year journey through space at light speed.

[JohninDublin]

20 minutes ago, Andrew Reeve said:

The first recored sighting in Ireland was in 1679 However, when 16 residents of “Poins-Town” in Tipperary, Ireland had their eyewitness accounts published in a book entitled  “the divers and most strange and prodigious apparitions seen in the air”.

This book is exceptionally rare and recalls the sightings of "something like a ship," It relates to the reports made by a Mc C Hewetson and a Mr R Foster, as well as others who observed the unexplained flying objects. In 1679.

It's interesting that the observation was ship like. That would be the equivalent of "high tech" in that period, and I think it unlikely that the residents of a small village in Tipperary would know much about rockets. 

Trying to rationalise it, on the one hand you have to ask, when did Aliens switch from (flying) ships to rockets? On the other, if it was a mass hallucination and the thoughts were that these were visitors from another world, It seems reasonable to me that the hallucination would involve the technology of the day.

[stevenkongju]

I agree with Carl Sagan's book, "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Darkness".

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

I'd say, that statistically, that is almost a certainty regarding intelligent life. Why I'm unable to conceive of them having actually visited us, is because of the logistics of building and provisioning a craft capable of a 4.5 year journey through space at light speed.

Agree, Inconceivable for us with our current and scientific and intelligence level. But what if they are far more advanced?

I am not expecting one to suddenly drop by the farm here and say "Earthling, take me to your leader" but I do like to allow the mind to wander and think what may be possible. 

After all, think of what the technology we have now would seem like to a caveman!

I am equally sure if they wanted to abduct me and experiment on my quality human body, someone must have put them up to it as a gag!

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Agree, Inconceivable for us with our current and scientific and intelligence level. But what if they are far more advanced?

I am not expecting one to suddenly drop by the farm here and say "Earthling, take me to your leader" but I do like to allow the mind to wander and think what may be possible. 

After all, think of what the technology we have now would seem like to a caveman!

I am equally sure if they wanted to abduct me and experiment on my quality human body, someone must have put them up to it as a gag!

There are some that suggest that the numerous varieties of extraterrestrials that have been observing and interacting with us [for ages] are us in the very distant future - 

Time portals to parallel universes. 

[Rookiescot]

So. You are a highly advanced species capable of defying the laws of physics and travel at multiple times the speed of light. 

Do you land on the Whitehouse lawn and introduce yourself?

Or do you grab some unwashed redneck in the woods and conduct intensely invasive procedures on him usually involving his bottom.

It seems they go for option B every single time. 

As a highly intelligent species you would wouldn't you?

[Faraday]

2 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

I'd say, that statistically, that is almost a certainty regarding intelligent life. Why I'm unable to conceive of them having actually visited us, is because of the logistics of building and provisioning a craft capable of a 4.5 year journey through space at light speed.

I think it's somewhat akin to taking a teaspoon of ocean water & concluding that sharks don't exist.

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Agree, Inconceivable for us with our current and scientific and intelligence level. But what if they are far more advanced?

Yes, other civilisations could be 100,000 years ahead of us.

The Wright brothers achievement was just 120 years ago.

By our current understanding of 'the laws of physics' it is impossible to travel those vast distances. I'm sure this understanding will be completely different in perhaps 200 years.

Sooner or later, CERN will discover something incredible: Our lives will change immeasurably

 

 

[Rain]

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So. You are a highly advanced species capable of defying the laws of physics and travel at multiple times the speed of light. 

Do you land on the Whitehouse lawn and introduce yourself?

Or do you grab some unwashed redneck in the woods and conduct intensely invasive procedures on him usually involving his bottom.

It seems they go for option B every single time. 

As a highly intelligent species you would wouldn't you?

A bit too complicated for you, isn't it RS?