News Forum - German authorities uncover plot by “anti-vaxxers” to murder state politician

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Fluke said:

Going by that logic , people who smoke shouldn't receive any NHS treatment for any ailments that are the result of smoking  

I wouldn't disagree at all as by taking up hospital beds and specialists they're denying others, but arguably they've paid extra in taxes to justify that, and  it also all depends on what advice was in place as the advice given on smoking has varied considerably over the years.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Manu said:

..... why do you care about people not vaccinated by choice?

You're talking as if they're the only ones affected by their decisions.

How about those waiting years for treatment for other ailments who can't get a bed because of them, those waiting for an ICU or specialist care, or those waiting in an ambulance for 12 hours for a bed, and those at home or in an accident in turn waiting for an ambulance?

When you're the only one affected, fine, but when your choice affects others don't they have every right to complain?

 

[vlad]

4 hours ago, Fluke said:

Smokers and drinkers enjoy smoking and drinking they aren't addicted because all the have to do is to stop doing it .

   People fought in the trenches for freedom , freedom not to be dictated to by a Government , the freedom of choice as to whether to get vaccinated or not 

Smoking is an Addiction caused by Nicotine same as a Gambler and an Alcoholic they need treatment to overcome there addiction Fluke. 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, PBS said:

This is the attitude that underlines POVs which can lead to the extremism mentioned in the OP. Elected governments have a mandate to legislate. If people refuse to vaccinate after given a reasonable timeline to do so, IMO, they should expect to have limitation on freedom of movement imposed; the unvaccinated do not have a 'right' to potentially infect others. Personally I would be very angry if I contracted Covid from an anti vaxxer and had to go into isolation. 

Well we know that vaccinated people can still get infected and pass the virus on so the reason to isolate non vaxxers is more nuanced.

Its the fact they are far more likely to need hospitalisation. They then put an already stretched health system under even more stress. Essentially they start taking up beds others could be using simply because of their unfounded beliefs surrounding the vaccine caused by wild conspiracy theories which are completely baseless.

So isolating them is for their own safety and by extension stopping them becoming bed blockers causing harm to the rest of society. 

[Manu]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

You're talking as if they're the only ones affected by their decisions.

How about those waiting years for treatment for other ailments who can't get a bed because of them, those waiting for an ICU or specialist care, or those waiting in an ambulance for 12 hours for a bed, and those at home or in an accident in turn waiting for an ambulance?

When you're the only one affected, fine, but when your choice affects others don't they have every right to complain?

So you are talking about health care system then… this is how it was in the uk on December 2019… I cannot say no more https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/13/nhs-england-on-its-knees-as-performance-figures-hit-new-lows  

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

So you are talking about health care system then… this is how it was in the uk on December 2019… I cannot say no more https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/13/nhs-england-on-its-knees-as-performance-figures-hit-new-lows  

No need for you to say any more, as this is how it is from the same source in December 2021 with waiting lists and delays 25% worse   

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/01/up-to-12m-people-could-be-on-nhs-waiting-list-in-england-by-2025

[HiuMak]

19 hours ago, Cabra said:

No one does the far right better than Germany. They also do a good job of tracking down these knuckle heads. Far too dangerous to ignore

and no one does the far left better than North Korea. If you have covid I shoot you

[bokeh]

14 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

You remind me of Nancy Reagan: "Just say no".

Regarding smoking, it is recognised as being as addictive as heroin. Need I say more?

https://www.ucsfhealth.org/conditions/nicotine-dependence

I stopped smoking. That's it I Stopped Smoking. The book 'The Easy Way To Stop Smoking by Alan Carr' and his logical way of explaining how we are led to believe it is 'addictive' helped. I don't believe in addictions. It's just a habit you keep doing. And as to heroin/meth USERS, that's what they do, USE heroin and meth, they're not 'addicted' to it. I have personal knowledge of this. Many years ago they'd turn up at my house to be with someone who didn't use these substances and was capable of critically thinking.

[bokeh]

21 hours ago, Stonker said:

Not allowed treatment for Covid if they need it seems reasonable.

Ah COVID 19. Certificate Of Vaccination Identification 1 =A 9 = I, COVID AI. Wake up.

[Fluke]

22 hours ago, Cabra said:

No one does the far right better than Germany. They also do a good job of tracking down these knuckle heads. Far too dangerous to ignore

What makes you label them as being "Far right " , nothing from the story suggests that .

[Cabra]

17 minutes ago, Fluke said:

What makes you label them as being "Far right " , nothing from the story suggests that .

Anti vaxers wanting to kill politicians, what more do you need to know

[Fluke]

6 minutes ago, Cabra said:

Anti vaxers wanting to kill politicians, what more do you need to know

I would like to know why you labeled them as being "far right" or are you a lefty that labels everything he doesn't like as being "far right" ?

[Cabra]

58 minutes ago, Fluke said:

I would like to know why you labeled them as being "far right" or are you a lefty that labels everything he doesn't like as being "far right" ?

Are you someone who when they don't know someone calls them a "lefty"?

[oldschooler]

circa 15% hardcore adult anti - vaxxers in western countries…. in USA might be 25% …. incredible high numbers for the most advanced educated rational nations……est. 5 million in UK……ignorant fools… no doubt covering the entire political & resistance spectrums……Omicron will have these idiots stacking out our hospitals dying in droves whilst denying the innocent their non- covid treatments…… time for extensive democratic laws to penalize anti -vax adults……

[Fluke]

11 minutes ago, Cabra said:

Are you someone who when they don't know someone calls them a "lefty"?

I am not, no .

[Faraday]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

circa 15% hardcore adult anti - vaxxers in western countries…. in USA might be 25% …. incredible high numbers for the most advanced educated rational nations……est. 5 million in UK……ignorant fools… no doubt covering the entire political & resistance spectrums……Omicron will have these idiots stacking out our hospitals dying in droves whilst denying the innocent their non- covid treatments…… time for extensive democratic laws to penalize anti -vax adults……

You sound just like - & having looked at some of your other posts, a person who likes being provocative.

But not in a good way.

[Fluke]

6 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

circa 15% hardcore adult anti - vaxxers in western countries…. in USA might be 25% …. incredible high numbers for the most advanced educated rational nations……est. 5 million in UK……ignorant fools… no doubt covering the entire political & resistance spectrums……Omicron will have these idiots stacking out our hospitals dying in droves whilst denying the innocent their non- covid treatments…… time for extensive democratic laws to penalize anti -vax adults……

One of the available vaccines is about to withdrawn due to the amount of deaths it has caused .

The J&J vaccine has recommended to be withdrawn ,

As an unvaxxed person, I thank all you who got vaccinated and tested it out .

Which vaccine did you have ?

[Cabra]

1 hour ago, Fluke said:

I would like to know why you labeled them as being "far right" or are you a lefty that labels everything he doesn't like as being "far right" ?

No, I am not. I do read other news sources though.

https://www.reuters.com/world/german-police-conduct-raids-saxony-over-anti-vaxxer-murder-plot-2021-12-15/

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, bokeh said:

I stopped smoking. That's it I Stopped Smoking. The book 'The Easy Way To Stop Smoking by Alan Carr' and his logical way of explaining how we are led to believe it is 'addictive' helped. I don't believe in addictions. It's just a habit you keep doing. And as to heroin/meth USERS, that's what they do, USE heroin and meth, they're not 'addicted' to it. I have personal knowledge of this. Many years ago they'd turn up at my house to be with someone who didn't use these substances and was capable of critically thinking.

no “ critical thinking” required. plain common sense will do.obvious bad idea to ingest toxic addictive substances giving long term life -destroying consequences for you and close family. nicotine/ drugs/ alcohol / junk food & drink/ red meat/ sugar; all poison to humans.  Arthur Schopenhauer - level intellect hardly necessary. weak- minded fools will of course always find excuses to carry on self- abusing & killing themselves, relying on overloaded national health services to bail them out with new hearts & lungs. 

 

[Poolie]

12 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

no “ critical thinking” required. plain common sense will do.obvious bad idea to ingest toxic addictive substances giving long term life -destroying consequences for you and close family. nicotine/ drugs/ alcohol / junk food & drink/ red meat/ sugar; all poison to humans.  Arthur Schopenhauer - level intellect hardly necessary. weak- minded fools will of course always find excuses to carry on self- abusing & killing themselves, relying on overloaded national health services to bail them out with new hearts & lungs. 

But unless you 'live off the land' someone, somewhere will tell you that everything is harmful. Remember coffee? Red meat? Sugar? Salt? Raw eggs? I could go on...

[Fluke]

21 minutes ago, Cabra said:

No, I am not. I do read other news sources though.

https://www.reuters.com/world/german-police-conduct-raids-saxony-over-anti-vaxxer-murder-plot-2021-12-15/

Ah right, so they are a far right group because they live in Saxony and Saxony has some far right people living there , so, put two and two together and hey presto, they are a far right group .

Everyone who lives in Saxony is a far right neo Nazi, glad that's been cleared up 

[oldschooler]

9 minutes ago, Faraday said:

You sound just like - & having looked at some of your other posts, a person who likes being provocative.

But not in a good way.

big picture / top down / conservative person. “like” to be factual & analytical. trying to identify & breakdown problems & solutions impartially. unlike the type it seems who being typically offended or unable to handle the case / hypothesis, will inevitably attack the case presenter. it’s called “ ad hominem”. damaging to  reputation.

being positively ”provocative” is being truly alive & relevant. how am I being “ negative” ? be specific. realize that’s  hard. subject is a huge problem needing best efforts to resolve.

sure, some unable to think for themselves or afraid to express obvious or unpopular conclusions will be “ offended” . sound familiar ? sure such types are looking to get “ triggered” in their “safe spaces” & dying to silence and cancel such rational folk. 

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, Poolie said:

But unless you 'live off the land' someone, somewhere will tell you that everything is harmful. Remember coffee? Red meat? Sugar? Salt? Raw eggs? I could go on...

yes, admittedly difficult to avoid entirely the dangerous pervasise processed foods when living in western countries. I couldnt. surrounded by it all in Europe. overweight. tired from long hours. no exercise but walking between places.bad fatty diet. poisoned by vehicle exhaust fumes.

seeing out covid in Phuket has enabled a complete lifestyle overhaul……and recognition that career and money not important compared to health & family & tranquility.

 

 

[Faraday]

15 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

big picture / top down / conservative person. “like” to be factual & analytical. trying to identify & breakdown problems & solutions impartially. unlike the type it seems who being typically offended or unable to handle the case / hypothesis, will inevitably attack the case presenter. it’s called “ ad hominem”. damaging to  reputation.

being positively ”provocative” is being truly alive & relevant. how am I being “ negative” ? be specific. realize that’s  hard. subject is a huge problem needing best efforts to resolve.

sure, some unable to think for themselves or afraid to express obvious or unpopular conclusions will be “ offended” . sound familiar ? sure such types are looking to get “ triggered” in their “safe spaces” & dying to silence and cancel such rational folk. 

You feeling ok...?

 

[oldschooler]

38 minutes ago, Fluke said:

One of the available vaccines is about to withdrawn due to the amount of deaths it has caused .

The J&J vaccine has recommended to be withdrawn ,

As an unvaxxed person, I thank all you who got vaccinated and tested it out .

Which vaccine did you have ?

typical daft anti- vax exaggerated disinformation, unworthy of being engaged beyond this response……

probably J& J like other vax was “ paused” for several months in a few places for blood clotting in certain profiles. it was not “ withdrawn”…

yeah, so what, 50 people died vs one million +saved by J& J …..but hey people died so vax bad……