MH370: Possible location discovered

[KaptainRob]

1 hour ago, gazmo16 said:

I thought the 737 Max had an issue that caused it to dive and a lack of pilot training around the issue meant they didn't know the procedure to correct.

 Boing had failed to pass on all information until the investigation.

This topic is about the Boeing 777 loss, nothing to do with 737 Max issues.

NCC1701A is referring to MH370's pilot(s) and most probably the captain is the perpetrator of this alleged murder suicide mystery.

We know the details re MH370's erratic manoeuvres whilst in a radar 'blind' spot between KUL and Vietnam which would have caused pax asphyxiation and the changes in heading to confuse other radar stations but beyond that there has been very little information released publicly about motive.  We may never know the truth.

[Pinetree]

Lots of speculation here. I have some experience of the B777 and I cannot think of one technical or engineering reason for the aircraft to end up so far off its intended track. The only possible explanations are crew incapacity, or a deliberate act. As with Air France 447, if the wreck is located, the flight recorders could be retrieved, but they will have long since stopped their locator beacon transmissions. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Pinetree

[MARCO]

3 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

You are correct, the speed must have severed wings and empenage upon impact and as evidenced by all 30+ pieces of wreckage, many smaller components were broken off.  Normally, once an airplane loses the nominal airspeed required to remain in flight, or glide, it may simply roll over which would have caused the fuselage to break up.  Due to the fact no soft furnishings, baggage or bodies were ever recovered, I believe the captain purposely flew the plane into the sea nose first.  The fuselage could therefore be largely intact, crushed and perhaps broken in 2 halves.

Hey Kaptain ... that's interesting stuff.  If what you say is correct then should a recovery team manage to locate the fuselage, then bodies strapped into their seats could be brought to the surface?  Or am I reading too much into this.

[Fluke]

7 minutes ago, MARCO said:

Hey Kaptain ... that's interesting stuff.  If what you say is correct then should a recovery team manage to locate the fuselage, then bodies strapped into their seats could be brought to the surface?  Or am I reading too much into this.

Wouldnt be bodies have  turned to fish food long ago ?

[mickkotlarski]

4 minutes ago, MARCO said:

Hey Kaptain ... that's interesting stuff.  If what you say is correct then should a recovery team manage to locate the fuselage, then bodies strapped into their seats could be brought to the surface?  Or am I reading too much into this.

Just chiming in but I think its difficult and impractical. The bodies are seriously saturated under  400+ ATM pressure (5900 psi) and the plane is in pieces so the corpses will be exposed to marine bottom dwellers that will feed off these bodies. A dead whale that sinks to the bottom can be consumed quickly enough.

The black box also must be getting close to the end of its survival life. Most black box salvage takes place within days or worst case scenarios two years as with the United Airlines explosion/crash in the Hudson river.

Along with expenses involved this looks like a place that will be declared a marine graveyard memorial to the victims that lost their lives.

[Shark]

As a "retired" dive instructor (Retired by COVID), I can just say that even with a ROIV this is a far from ideal situation.... going 4KM deep indeed opens you to 401 bar/atm of pressure this is for bones even a gigantic amount like said whales sink to the deep... so puzzling together what's whale bone and human doesn't seem like a very worthy investment of time and resources. Yes identify it was the MH370 - this way family members know that the remains of their loved ones can be found at this site perhaps bring them there in better days.

I wouldn't bother trying to find a blackbox... as the only color you get down there is black... it's like searching for a needle in a haystack even with big lights.... it's not worth it.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Shark

[KaptainRob]

21 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Along with expenses involved this looks like a place that will be declared a marine graveyard memorial to the victims that lost their lives.

I believe that is the most likely scenario although I'm sure a survey of the site will be carried out at the very least.

[KaptainRob]

@Shark ROV s have recovered treasure from wrecks at similar depths and there's some good video footage on YT or commercial sites if you do a search. 

I wouldnt like to go down beyond 6 feet, let alone 4 kms 

[Shark]

1 minute ago, KaptainRob said:

@Shark ROV s have recovered treasure from wrecks at similar depths and there's some good video footage on YT or commercial sites if you do a search. 

I wouldnt like to go down beyond 6 feet, let alone 4 kms 

It all depends on the conditions of sea, I don't have to tell you this... yes i know ROVs whom operate at this depth. Wrecks of what.... not of Boeing's that much I would suspect.

I went to 60m's and still have a sinkhole (Song Hong) which I want to go way deeper then that... since it's feasible (178m/588ft).

My days as instructor are over but exploration is in my blood so yeah... many more caves & wrecks I want to be in/at.

[Fester]

9 hours ago, gazmo16 said:

I thought the 737 Max had an issue that caused it to dive and a lack of pilot training around the issue meant they didn't know the procedure to correct.

 Boing had failed to pass on all information until the investigation.

You are confused....MH370 was a 777.

 

[MARCO]

Seems whatever way you look at it it's mission impossible.  Obviously it would be good for families to know where loved ones actually ended up .... it must be heart-breaking for them being a continuing mystery. RIP

[JohninDublin]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:21 AM, gummy said:

I have no proven basis for this but just wonder if Boeing  and  Malaysian airlines would really want the "black" boxes recovered for evidence of what it may or may not produce ?  Just a thought.

The customary practice when blame is apportioned in these cases, is to point the finger at each other.

[JohninDublin]

20 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

You are correct, the speed must have severed wings and empenage upon impact and as evidenced by all 30+ pieces of wreckage, many smaller components were broken off.  Normally, once an airplane loses the nominal airspeed required to remain in flight, or glide, it may simply roll over which would have caused the fuselage to break up.  Due to the fact no soft furnishings, baggage or bodies were ever recovered, I believe the captain purposely flew the plane into the sea nose first.  The fuselage could therefore be largely intact, crushed and perhaps broken in 2 halves.

From what I've read so far, that could well be the case. It's interesting that there appears to have been no attempt to glide the plane. Based on that, I think the likely options are either a catastrophic event that was so sudden, they could not deal with it, or Pilot sabotage.

[JohninDublin]

16 hours ago, Shark said:

As a "retired" dive instructor (Retired by COVID), I can just say that even with a ROIV this is a far from ideal situation.... going 4KM deep indeed opens you to 401 bar/atm of pressure this is for bones even a gigantic amount like said whales sink to the deep... so puzzling together what's whale bone and human doesn't seem like a very worthy investment of time and resources. Yes identify it was the MH370 - this way family members know that the remains of their loved ones can be found at this site perhaps bring them there in better days.

I wouldn't bother trying to find a blackbox... as the only color you get down there is black... it's like searching for a needle in a haystack even with big lights.... it's not worth it.

The Black Boxes are actually painted orange, so a light on an ROV should be able to pick them out if they are visible.

[KaptainRob]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

From what I've read so far, that could well be the case. It's interesting that there appears to have been no attempt to glide the plane. Based on that, I think the likely options are either a catastrophic event that was so sudden, they could not deal with it, or Pilot sabotage.

I studied the unfolding drama closely and discussed events with my best friend, a B777 pilot and instructor for Emirates, Boeing and latterly AIRNZ.   It was not failure of any Boeing systems that caused this tragedy. 

[KaptainRob]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

The Black Boxes are actually painted orange, so a light on an ROV should be able to pick them out if they are visible.

Both black boxes, CVR and FDR, are located in the aft section of the fuselage it being the most survivable end ... Most times.  Finding them at 4000m would be like searching for that needle in a haystack, 1st you have to find the haystack.

It's widely believed the pilot may have disabled the CVR, voice recorder when he disabled the IFF transponder and aircon system, the latter only temporarily.  I'm not sure the FDR, data recorder, can be isolated whilst in flight.

[JohninDublin]

6 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

I studied the unfolding drama closely and discussed events with my best friend, a B777 pilot and instructor for Emirates, Boeing and latterly AIRNZ.   It was not failure of any Boeing systems that caused this tragedy. 

Just to clarify, that was not my implication. From what I've read in the original post, what needs explaining, is why the plane went into a high-speed dive. That suggests to me, either deliberate action by the pilot, or something that was so rapid in onset, the pilots could do nothing about it. 

[gummy]

17 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Just to clarify, that was not my implication. From what I've read in the original post, what needs explaining, is why the plane went into a high-speed dive. That suggests to me, either deliberate action by the pilot, or something that was so rapid in onset, the pilots could do nothing about it. 

What if hit by an air to air missile? Rapid decent, multi fragmentation of exploding impact area

[JohninDublin]

6 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

Both black boxes, CVR and FDR, are located in the aft section of the fuselage it being the most survivable end ... Most times.  Finding them at 4000m would be like searching for that needle in a haystack, 1st you have to find the haystack.

It's widely believed the pilot may have disabled the CVR, voice recorder when he disabled the IFF transponder and aircon system, the latter only temporarily.  I'm not sure the FDR, data recorder, can be isolated whilst in flight.

I have a recollection of an incident involving a 747 Cargo plane, possibly owned by Fedex, where one of the crew  sought to deliberately crash the plane in order to give his family his insurance money.

If my memory is correct, his co-crew became suspicious when the CVR was mysteriously switched off several times during the flight. It was necessary to do so, because even though the FDR could not be disabled, and would almost certainly prove that the plane was deliberately crashed, lack of CVR evidence would make it difficult to identify which individual was responsible for the crash.

In this case, the culprit attacked both of his co-crew with a hammer. One managed to overpower him while the other landed the plane.

[JohninDublin]

2 minutes ago, gummy said:

What if hit by an air to air missile? Rapid decent, multi fragmentation of exploding impact area

I'm not sure that can be totally ruled out. But the only thing that suggests that to me, is the rapid deterioration of the situation. 

[KaptainRob]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

Just to clarify, that was not my implication. From what I've read in the original post, what needs explaining, is why the plane went into a high-speed dive. That suggests to me, either deliberate action by the pilot, or something that was so rapid in onset, the pilots could do nothing about it. 

The hypothesis is that the pilot wanted to trash the plane, deep six it, and hide it in the remotest part of the southern ocean where it was unlikely to be found.  In other words he may have 'driven' the plane down in a steep dive just as fuel warning lights indicated imminent engine flame out.

It's 99% certainly a murder suicide planned to the nth degree.  Malay authorities surely know far more than they've ever released about the captains mental health and other discoveries.

[KaptainRob]

53 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I have a recollection of an incident involving a 747 Cargo plane, possibly owned by Fedex, where one of the crew  sought to deliberately crash the plane in order to give his family his insurance money.

If my memory is correct, his co-crew became suspicious when the CVR was mysteriously switched off several times during the flight. It was necessary to do so, because even though the FDR could not be disabled, and would almost certainly prove that the plane was deliberately crashed, lack of CVR evidence would make it difficult to identify which individual was responsible for the crash.

In this case, the culprit attacked both of his co-crew with a hammer. One managed to overpower him while the other landed the plane.

1994 DC10 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

[JohninDublin]

15 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

The hypothesis is that the pilot wanted to trash the plane, deep six it, and hide it in the remotest part of the southern ocean where it was unlikely to be found.  In other words he may have 'driven' the plane down in a steep dive just as fuel warning lights indicated imminent engine flame out.

It's 99% certainly a murder suicide planned to the nth degree.  Malay authorities surely know far more than they've ever released about the captains mental health and other discoveries.

Don't disagree with that being one of the more likely scenarios. If and when they locate the wreckage, I think the pics from the Remote Operated Vehicle will give more clarity. 

[JohninDublin]

23 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

1994 DC10 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

Thanks. That's the one I was thinking of.

[JamesE]

Some new coverage:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59517821