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St Edmund's Day 20th November


Bluesofa
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It is surprising to learn that St George was not the first patron saint of England.

That honour was originally held by St Edmund, or Edmund the Martyr, King of East Anglia in the 9th century AD.

In 1348, Edward III made St George the Patron Saint of England. He wasn't even English, St George originated in what is now Turkey.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Edmund-original-Patron-Saint-of-England/  

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58 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

He wasn't even English, St George originated in what is now Turkey.

Hence the term " you want chili sauce on your kebab Sir .? " 

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Sounds a bit iffy living in the 9th century from what I've heard .. if disease or inter tribe squabbling didn't get you then marauding heathen armies whacked on magic mushrooms would .. as appears to be the case with poor old Ed' .. they reckon his head was found in the forest after a wolf kept howling " here , here , here " but like I said they used to chomp a lot of M M's back then so best put that down to someone off their face .. so they say t'was Ivar the boneless who done him in .. bit of controversy over why he was called boneless with some claiming it was 'cos he didn't have any legs but I'm not inclined to believe that 9th century England wouldn't have been particularly disabled friendly .. or the other speculation is he couldn't get it up or was without bone and medieval Viagra was dodgy at best back then .. 

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12 minutes ago, Dedinbed said:

Sounds a bit iffy living in the 9th century from what I've heard .. if disease or inter tribe squabbling didn't get you then marauding heathen armies whacked on magic mushrooms would .. as appears to be the case with poor old Ed' .. they reckon his head was found in the forest after a wolf kept howling " here , here , here " but like I said they used to chomp a lot of M M's back then so best put that down to someone off their face .. so they say t'was Ivar the boneless who done him in .. bit of controversy over why he was called boneless with some claiming it was 'cos he didn't have any legs but I'm not inclined to believe that 9th century England wouldn't have been particularly disabled friendly .. or the other speculation is he couldn't get it up or was without bone and medieval Viagra was dodgy at best back then .. 

So was all this was sorted by 1348? (Just before 2pm)

Can I have a bottle of what you've been drinking?

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5 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

So was all this was sorted by 1348? (Just before 2pm)

Can I have a bottle of what you've been drinking?

Good point but even though he'd been dead over 400 yrs Ed' was the Saint of England 'till George the Turk took over .. which delighted everyone .. 

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4 hours ago, Dedinbed said:

Good point but even though he'd been dead over 400 yrs Ed' was the Saint of England 'till George the Turk took over .. which delighted everyone .. 

'which delighted everyone'   You're right there saying 'everyone'.
England shares St George with Venice, Genoa, Portugal, Ethiopia and Catalonia.

At least St. Edmund was elusively ours.

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An Englishman an Irishman and a Scotsman were in a pub, talking about their sons:

"My son was born on St George's Day," commented the Englishman. "So we obviously decided to call him George."

 

"That's a real coincidence," remarked the Scot. "My son was born on St Andrew's Day, so we decided to call him Andrew."

 

"That's incredible, what a coincidence," said the Irishman. "I can't wait to go home and tell our Pancake."

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13 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Was the Dragon English? AFAF...

A good question. It couldn't have been, as St. George never came anywhere near England. Unless an English dragon was on holiday in Turkey.

That makes me think about the other countries with St George: Venice, Genoa, Portugal, Ethiopia and Catalonia. Do they have a dragon in their version I wonder?

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9 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

That makes me think about the other countries with St George: Venice, Genoa, Portugal, Ethiopia and Catalonia.

That they did in Ethiopia .. if there was one in Genoa it was probably a piece of cake to sword up .. I should imagine .. 

 

9 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

good question. It couldn't have been, as St. George never came anywhere near England. Unless an English dragon was on holiday in Turkey

Could have been the Welsh Dragon on holiday with Dragonfly holidays .. and English George would have a motive for doing him in , for Welsh Dragon flame grilled the white dragon generally thought to be a Saxon supporter in an epic contest after spending a couple of hundred yrs p*ssed in a mead filled pit they'd got tricked into falling into .. someone then woke them up over something churlish like saving a castle for it to kick off in an enter the dragons sort of bout .. but you gotta remember a lot of this was recalled by monks and sage's who were just as off their faces on mead as the dragon's had been ..

 

Ethiopia George and the rumble in the Monmouth courtyard .. 

 

 

IMG_20211120_213858.jpg

IMG_20211120_215200.jpg

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2 hours ago, Dedinbed said:

That they did in Ethiopia .. if there was one in Genoa it was probably a piece of cake to sword up .. I should imagine .. 

Could have been the Welsh Dragon on holiday with Dragonfly holidays .. and English George would have a motive for doing him in , for Welsh Dragon flame grilled the white dragon generally thought to be a Saxon supporter in an epic contest after spending a couple of hundred yrs p*ssed in a mead filled pit they'd got tricked into falling into .. someone then woke them up over something churlish like saving a castle for it to kick off in an enter the dragons sort of bout .. but you gotta remember a lot of this was recalled by monks and sage's who were just as off their faces on mead as the dragon's had been ..

Ethiopia George and the rumble in the Monmouth courtyard .. 

IMG_20211120_213858.jpg

IMG_20211120_215200.jpg

I see 'Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain' is said to have been "completed in 1136, this classic chronicle traces the story of the realm from its supposed foundation by Brutus to the coming of the Saxons some two thousand years later. Vividly portraying legendary and semi-legendary figures such as Lear, Cymbeline, Merlin the magician, and the most famous of all British heroes, King Arthur, it is as much myth as it is history, and its veracity was questioned by other medieval writers."

Geoffrey of Monmouth must have died a couple of hundred years before Edmund was ditched for George as patron saint.
I don't know how well known George was (in England) at this time.

"Geoffrey of Monmouth was a Welsh cleric and British historiographer who lived during the twelfth century. He is best known for his chronicle The History of the Kings of Britain, which, though now considered historically unreliable, was widely popular in its day and is cited as an important work of national myth."

I hope it doesn't reflect badly on all inhabitants of Monmouth?

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8 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

The History of the Kings of Britain, which, though now considered historically unreliable, was widely popular in its day and is cited as an important work of national myth."

I'd blame the mead they were all quaffing back then .. 

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On 11/20/2021 at 7:48 AM, Bluesofa said:

I see there was a petition to restore St. Edmund to his rightful status as our patron saint, to stop saint-sharing old George the imposter:

https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/64487

The petition failed and was closed because of a general erection in 2015.

Pretty interesting. Never knew a government could change part of a religion. Is the Church of England controlled in some form by the government?

Note: American here, so separation of church and state is normal for me. 

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7 minutes ago, Dedinbed said:

I'd blame the mead they were all quaffing back then .. 

P!ssed as a newts, forget the dragons. Perhaps it's our Geoffrey we've got to thank for publicising 'arfur and his round table. They had some good nights at that table.

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2 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

Pretty interesting. Never knew a government could change part of a religion. Is the Church of England controlled in some form by the government?

Note: American here, so separation of church and state is normal for me. 

A patron saint isn't really part of a religion per se, odd as it sounds.

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If you want a laugh, how about this:

St. Michael the Archangel. patron saint of grocers, soldiers, doctors, mariners, paratroopers, police, and sickness.
You can pick anything you fancy:  https://www.catholic.org/saints/   
The patron saint of a country, although a saint through the catholic church, is seem more as tradition than anything else, from what I can see.
If we're talking religion - a guy killing a dragon? Which is more imaginary, god or a dragon?

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42 minutes ago, gummy said:

Many things strange in this world, I heard of a Saint who kept killing the messengers 😂

Simon Templar?
(p.s. I sent you a pm yesterday)

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2 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

Simon Templar?
(p.s. I sent you a pm yesterday)

I know because I had an email notification but it was not in my message box this morning !!

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3 minutes ago, gummy said:

I know because I had an email notification but it was not in my message box this morning !!

Try again? I just resent it.

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