News Forum - Government’s domestic tour package subsidy receives lukewarm response

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Benroon said:

How is it only about tourism when residents currently outside of Thailand have to jump through the same hoops ?

The defenders of these shockingly badly put together hoops don't seem to be able to grasp in their blind adulation, that the comments (whines and moans as you put them) aren't bashing Thailand as a nation per se, you've certainly never seen me do that, they are 'bashing an entry system that a class of 7 year olds could have made more coherent and without the changes that arrive on a weekly if not daily basis. Then you come on here and people are defending the completely unparalleled incompetence ! 

If you need more evidence of that, phone an embassy, they haven't got the slightest clue what's going on ! 

It's not perfect

Not many countries have done it perfectly

 

And you can absolutely enter Thailand if you really want to or need to(that's an absolute fact)

That's my whole point

 

Either you really want to or need to go or you don't

No need to whine and moan

 

We went to see my family in the US for 2 months once the vaccines were out

We would have jumped through any hoop to do so(testing needed, quarantine ended after we made our plans )

And we will jump through any hoops we need to, to see our Thai family in April 

 

We aren't going to whine about, we are going to do it......

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Benroon said:

How is it only about tourism when residents currently outside of Thailand have to jump through the same hoops ?

The defenders of these shockingly badly put together hoops don't seem to be able to grasp in their blind adulation, that the comments (whines and moans as you put them) aren't bashing Thailand as a nation per se, you've certainly never seen me do that, they are 'bashing an entry system that a class of 7 year olds could have made more coherent and without the changes that arrive on a weekly if not daily basis. Then you come on here and people are defending the completely unparalleled incompetence ! 

If you need more evidence of that, phone an embassy, they haven't got the slightest clue what's going on ! 

This is something that always gives me a bit of a laugh

The same miserable bastards(not you) that bash everything Thailand also bash their home country(see a pattern?)

 

And they moved to Thailand or frequently visit Thailand because it's not like the west.

 

Yet they want it to function like a highly developed country......

 

 

 

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Marc26 said:

It's not perfect

Not many countries have done it perfectly

And you can absolutely enter Thailand if you really want to or need to(that's an absolute fact)

That's my whole point

Either you really want to or need to go or you don't

No need to whine and moan

We went to see my family in the US for 2 months once the vaccines were out

We would have jumped through any hoop to do so(testing needed, quarantine ended after we made our plans )

And we will jump through any hoops we need to, to see our Thai family in April 

We aren't going to whine about, we are going to do it......

But mate, the comments being made aren’t whining. This is a forum about what is going on in Thailand. It isn’t meant to balance what goes on here with what another country is doing.
 

For example: The US hasn’t stated it wants to attract 25% of its 2019 tourist numbers but still generate 50% of its 2019 revenues, Thailand has. This will attract criticism as its an arbitrary target. It’s just wind in the air with little or no thought or planning. Meaningless without the how to achieve.  As this is a Thai focused forum then people pass comment on it. If it was a US forum then there would be critical,  pessimistic, and negative comments around what the US government is doing and planing. 
 

I read the articles relating to my own country and I shake my head in the stupidity of what I read. 7% increase in minimum wage but not expecting inflation to rise. Are you completely out of your mind? How are you going to achieve that? Explain how that works in practice? Why should small companies shoulder this cost? Etc etc. This is commenting on Thai news and hence it draws these kind of comments.
 

I for one have never claimed my country or any is perfect. However, by almost any metric (apart from temperature) Thailand lags behind its development compared to the home country of many members on here. They naturally see a path and a way in which Thailand can improve and improve the lives of local people. We will naturally comment based on knowing better and seeing first hand how to improve things like road safety, reducing corruption, what tourists want and how to attract them, reduction in bureaucracy, social care, education standards etc. 
 

I hope that explains where I’m coming from and why people are not whining but simply commenting, giving opinions and from time to time having a dig or plain taking the P**s at the lack of direction leaders take. 
 

All I ask on this forum is people to adhere to the guidelines and treat people with respect and how you would if you were face to face. 
 

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. 

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Marc26 said:

And they moved to Thailand or frequently visit Thailand because it's not like the west.

Yet they want it to function like a highly developed country......

You make an excellent point @Marc26  I often criticise people who come to my country from places like Syria and Afghanistan and want to turn my country in to the place they ran away from.  There is however a big difference in that the comments made on this forum mostly aim to improve the country and not drag it back to the dark ages and stoning women for daring to go out without a chaperone. 
 

I don’t want Thailand to be like my own country with its excessive hand out for social care, it’s overly restrictive parking laws or it’s limited opening hours and attitudes to enjoying living. I like Thailand for its natural beauty, it’s fantastic food, the fun loving people and for most of the time it’s warmer and drier weather than at home. My only hope is to see Thailand change in a way that improves the lives of its own people. I don’t need social care or support. I don’t need better flood protection. I don’t really feel the affects of police corruption. It doesn’t affect me if my kids don’t get a decent education or if they do, they still can’t get a decent job as I don’t have the money to bribe the boss. These are some of the things I would like Thailand to change.
 

If I had to change just one thing and one thing only in Thailand it would be Corruption. Just Ef’In stop it will you. All of you stop this cancer destroying each and every generation. I can live with the paperwork, the people double parking. The noise from a bar or concert late in to the night and even the Soi Dogs! Corruption is such a terrible thing to have in any society. It totally and utterly destroys dreams and lives. But please, do not make day-to-day life in Thailand anything like the U.K! 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

You make an excellent point @Marc26  I often criticise people who come to my country from places like Syria and Afghanistan and want to turn my country in to the place they ran away from.  There is however a big difference in that the comments made on this forum mostly aim to improve the country and not drag it back to the dark ages and stoning women for daring to go out without a chaperone. 
 

I don’t want Thailand to be like my own country with its excessive hand out for social care, it’s overly restrictive parking laws or it’s limited opening hours and attitudes to enjoying living. I like Thailand for its natural beauty, it’s fantastic food, the fun loving people and for most of the time it’s warmer and drier weather than at home. My only hope is to see Thailand change in a way that improves the lives of its own people. I don’t need social care or support. I don’t need better flood protection. I don’t really feel the affects of police corruption. It doesn’t affect me if my kids don’t get a decent education or if they do, they still can’t get a decent job as I don’t have the money to bribe the boss. These are some of the things I would like Thailand to change.
 

If I had to change just one thing and one thing only in Thailand it would be Corruption. Just Ef’In stop it will you. All of you stop this cancer destroying each and every generation. I can live with the paperwork, the people double parking. The noise from a bar or concert late in to the night and even the Soi Dogs! Corruption is such a terrible thing to have in any society. It totally and utterly destroys dreams and lives. But please, do not make day-to-day life in Thailand anything like the U.K! 

But you are proving my exact point

You don't want Thailand to be anything like the UK

And all your concerns are valid and I have the same wishes/concerns about Thailand

But you get all the non-UK stuff because of all the warts that Thailand has

It's all part of one package, unfortunately

 

 

People move/frequent  Thailand because it isn't the US/UK/Australia, but then expect it to perform the way developed countries do......

 

 

[Soidog]

15 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

But you are proving my exact point

You don't want Thailand to be anything like the UK

And all your concerns are valid and I have the same wishes/concerns about Thailand

But you get all the non-UK stuff because of all the warts that Thailand has

It's all part of one package, unfortunately

People move/frequent  Thailand because it isn't the US/UK/Australia, but then expect it to perform the way developed countries do......

Well yes and no mate. As I said in my original post, I think most people are happy with the chilled lifestyle. The noisy bars down the road, the neighbours barking dogs and chickens and even the poor road sense. The birthday parties until 2am on a Tuesday night, the inability to turn up on time, the endless paper trails and cash society. The Soi dogs and the rubbish filled canals.
 

What people don’t like is the fact that kids don’t get a fair chance in life. The poor education as a result of bungs and corruptions at every level of education. The lack of welfare for the elderly while the $70k a year generals and police chiefs are multi millionaires. The spending of public finances on toys for the military. The utter confusion over nearly everything they do. The logic on key issue of finance and development of the economy, their kip service to matters which directly affect their own people.
 

It’s not Thailand and you’re average member complain about. It’s the corrupt elite and rulers who continue to stifle the youths creativity and steal their future. These people deserve the complaints, the ridicule and the calling out of all the poorly thought through initiatives to get the country up and running again and solve the scourge of corruption.  These people set themselves up for ridicule and in a proper function democracy the opposition would be making these issues front and centre of daily news. What you see here is frustration. It’s not a desire to make Thailand anything like the U.K./US/Australia/EU. Certainly not from me anyway. 
 

A good topic of conversation I feel. There is no wrong or right here. I just think it’s about your viewpoint of what this forum is for. All the foreigners on this forum can moan and complain all they want  it won’t change the policies or behaviour of those in power. However it helps the frustration of the poor sod who has been back and forward three times to immigration because they want yet another piece of paper they didn’t ask for last time and next time will ask why did you bring that with you . It’s just venting steam most the time…

[Benroon]

15 hours ago, Marc26 said:

It's not perfect

Not many countries have done it perfectly

And you can absolutely enter Thailand if you really want to or need to(that's an absolute fact)

That's my whole point

Either you really want to or need to go or you don't

No need to whine and moan

We went to see my family in the US for 2 months once the vaccines were out

We would have jumped through any hoop to do so(testing needed, quarantine ended after we made our plans )

And we will jump through any hoops we need to, to see our Thai family in April 

We aren't going to whine about, we are going to do it......

Marc, You keep missing the point, though I'm retiring from the subject forthwith, people are not whining and moaning, they are merely trying to find out what the f*** is going on ! You are interpreting it as whining and moaning as you were prepared to be treated like an insignificant pleb and that's your decision. That shouldn't be happening in a major economy that relies heavily on the people it is confusing the shit out of ! 

The people who have to get there will still get through all the hoops as you did but it shouldn't be that way. Do you think the COE was scrapped because the government thought hang on this is shite all on their own or was it due to being informed vociferously by all stakeholders that it was a pile of shit ? It wasn't the former that's for sure!

To call out rank incompetence is not whining and moaning. Right now people hoping to get into Thailand the first couple of weeks in November are in for a few sleepless nights, and this in a major economy and again embassies haven't a clue what's going on. Their own embassies don't know. It's a joke!

 

[Benroon]

14 hours ago, Marc26 said:

This is something that always gives me a bit of a laugh

The same miserable bastards(not you) that bash everything Thailand also bash their home country(see a pattern?)

And they moved to Thailand or frequently visit Thailand because it's not like the west.

Yet they want it to function like a highly developed country......

and on this we fully agree

[Marc26]

40 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Marc, You keep missing the point, though I'm retiring from the subject forthwith, people are not whining and moaning, they are merely trying to find out what the f*** is going on ! You are interpreting it as whining and moaning as you were prepared to be treated like an insignificant pleb and that's your decision. That shouldn't be happening in a major economy that relies heavily on the people it is confusing the shit out of ! 

The people who have to get there will still get through all the hoops as you did but it shouldn't be that way. Do you think the COE was scrapped because the government thought hang on this is shite all on their own or was it due to being informed vociferously by all stakeholders that it was a pile of shit ? It wasn't the former that's for sure!

To call out rank incompetence is not whining and moaning. Right now people hoping to get into Thailand the first couple of weeks in November are in for a few sleepless nights, and this in a major economy and again embassies haven't a clue what's going on. Their own embassies don't know. It's a joke!

I choose to find positive solutions, others choose to whine and moan

 

Perfect example

Everyone up in arms about the one night stay in BKK and even a possible delay in covid test

 

So book a nice hotel in BKK for 2-3 days and ENJOY YOURSELF! Problem sorted, but no, people would rather whine.

And what does it get them? Nothing really but heartache................

 

As for trying to get in the 1st couple weeks of November

Why would you? People are so desperate to go back to a country they can't wait a month?

Anyone that needs to be back, would have been already

Again, needless worry to moan about................

Wait until things settle down with the new phase........

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I choose to find positive solutions, others choose to whine and moan

Perfect example

Everyone up in arms about the one night stay in BKK and even a possible delay in covid test

So book a nice hotel in BKK for 2-3 days and ENJOY YOURSELF! Problem sorted, but no, people would rather whine.

And what does it get them? Nothing really but heartache................

As for trying to get in the 1st couple weeks of November

Why would you? People are so desperate to go back to a country they can't wait a month?

Anyone that needs to be back, would have been already

Again, needless worry to moan about................

Wait until things settle down with the new phase........

I have tried and @Benroonhas tried Marc to explain what this forum and what the comments are about. I’m really not sure what you would have as an alternative? No comments unless they are positive? People are complaining, not moaning. 
 

It seems odd or me that someone who keeps moaning  about people moaning can’t see the irony. You are moaning about the posts because you think it is wrong. People are complaining about what is going on with the authorities plans because they think it’s wrong. I’m not sure you have even taken the time to read what I have said previously?  If you think people on this forum are going to stop highlighting and calling out the problems they can see as plain as the nose on their face, then you are in the wrong forum my friend. 

[Soidog]

14 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Everyone up in arms about the one night stay in BKK and even a possible delay in covid test

@Marc26 People are simply pointing out that this will not help with their objective of getting tourists to return and get the tourist economy up and running again. No one is “up in arms” about it. Members just feel that expecting people to fly 12 or more hours and then get shuttled off to a hotel and be made to spend one or possibly two nights of a 13 night holiday is not a great start. The risk is small and the test pointless.
 

If you are looking for solutions then answer me this. Imagine I go for a preflight Covid test 48 hours before I fly. I’m negative. I travel to the airport and catch Covid on the train. Less than 24 hours later I’m tested and made to wait. I haven’t developed the virus and the PCR on arrival finds nothing and I’m clear to leave my hotel. Another 24 hours on I’m asymptomatic and walk around Bangkok spreading the virus. How has that arrival test achieved anything other than put tourists off. The preflight PCR and an ATK on day 3 will catch the vast majority of what is already a small minority of people who come in with the virus. An amount which pales in to insignificance compared to what is already endemic in the Thai population. It’s a pointless test, that was only real ent when Thailand had Zero Covid and now it simply deters tourists. Therefore it is worth highlighting this in order to improve the chances of opening being a success. That’s positive. 

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

@Marc26 People are simply pointing out that this will not help with their objective of getting tourists to return and get the tourist economy up and running again. No one is “up in arms” about it. Members just feel that expecting people to fly 12 or more hours and then get shuttled off to a hotel and be made to spend one or possibly two nights of a 13 night holiday is not a great start. The risk is small and the test pointless.
 

If you are looking for solutions then answer me this. Imagine I go for a preflight Covid test 48 hours before I fly. I’m negative. I travel to the airport and catch Covid on the train. Less than 24 hours later I’m tested and made to wait. I haven’t developed the virus and the PCR on arrival finds nothing and I’m clear to leave my hotel. Another 24 hours on I’m asymptomatic and walk around Bangkok spreading the virus. How has that arrival test achieved anything other than put tourists off. The preflight PCR and an ATK on day 3 will catch the vast majority of what is already a small minority of people who come in with the virus. An amount which pales in to insignificance compared to what is already endemic in the Thai population. It’s a pointless test, that was only real ent when Thailand had Zero Covid and now it simply deters tourists. Therefore it is worth highlighting this in order to improve the chances of opening being a success. That’s positive. 

Well I appreciate your thoughtful posts

Always enjoy reading them

 

But you may be right

This forum is way too negative for me

 

Everyone should take a lesson from @KaptainRobin enjoying their life in Thailand. 

That guy does it right. Always positive, understands the warts of the place

But I know be had a great life prior to moving to Thailand 

So he has come in without that negative energy so many bring in

 

Thanks for your posts and putting  up with me Soidog   

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Well I appreciate your thoughtful posts

Always enjoy reading them

But you may be right

This forum is way too negative for me

Everyone should take a lesson from @KaptainRobin enjoying their life in Thailand. 

That guy does it right. Always positive, understands the warts of the place

But I know be had a great life prior to moving to Thailand 

So he has come in without that negative energy so many bring in

Thanks for your posts and putting  up with me Soidog   

Thanks for the reply mate. Oddly enough, I think part of the attraction of Thailand for some foreigners, is there is plenty of obvious things wrong. In a lot of western countries it’s all orderly and boring and apart from the weather, there is nothing hitting you in the face each day to complain about . Everyone does there best to find something mind you! 
 

I agree with you that it’s not good to be surrounded by too much negative energy and that’s why I have stopped watching tv news here in the U.K.  Apart from the odd “feel good story” at the end of the news, everything else is doom & gloom. Climate change, equal rights, post colonial shame issues, unemployment, drug abuse, Inflation, health waiting lists, violence and abuse. It’s Non stop 24 hours a day negativity.
 

Some years ago I started to learn to read and write Thai. That was a mistake in some ways! I love being in Thailand and part of the enjoyment is not being able to read newspaper headlines, or read graffiti or other negative issues. If I tune out while sat in a coffee shop I don’t even understand what people are talking about. If a couple of English guys walk in and start moaning (sorry, complaining) about immigration, it’s time to pay and leave. I’ve even been known to pretend I’m Dutch and can’t speak English if they try to talk to me . So I know exactly where you are coming from. 
 

Cheers

[Benroon]

12 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I choose to find positive solutions, others choose to whine and moan

Perfect example

Everyone up in arms about the one night stay in BKK and even a possible delay in covid test

So book a nice hotel in BKK for 2-3 days and ENJOY YOURSELF! Problem sorted, but no, people would rather whine.

And what does it get them? Nothing really but heartache................

As for trying to get in the 1st couple weeks of November

Why would you? People are so desperate to go back to a country they can't wait a month?

Anyone that needs to be back, would have been already

Again, needless worry to moan about................

Wait until things settle down with the new phase........

Why would you ? 

How about work reasons or family reasons, or visa reasons, or medical reasons, as has been pointed out endless times.

But I officially give up now as you are unable to see the difference between ‘moaning’ and ‘critical’ - completely different entities. 

[Marc26]

6 hours ago, Benroon said:

Why would you ? 

How about work reasons or family reasons, or visa reasons, or medical reasons, as has been pointed out endless times.

But I officially give up now as you are unable to see the difference between ‘moaning’ and ‘critical’ - completely different entities. 

I appreciate your thoughtful opinions, I am not discounting them........I just highly disagree with them

If you need/or really want to enter Thailand you can, 10's of thousands of people have...........

I've entered3 countries during Covid now......2 were essential to me

Granted, they weren't as restrictive or confusing as Thailand(Canada was far more expensive) it didn't matter.

I had to go..........so whatever I needed to do, I would have done

 

We won't see eye to eye on this, and I will stop moaning and whining myself here  :)

[Benroon]

4 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Granted, they weren't as restrictive or confusing as Thailand(Canada was far more expensive) it didn't matter.

 

Bang - right there you've nailed the point.

I mailed the Thai embassy a week or so ago and pointed out it was technically impossible to enter Thailand in the first week of November (since the initial announcement said the COE was defunct and the TP wouldn't be ready - but since changed again) - they replied today telling me to apply for both !! 

[Marc26]

16 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Bang - right there you've nailed the point.

I mailed the Thai embassy a week or so ago and pointed out it was technically impossible to enter Thailand in the first week of November (since the initial announcement said the COE was defunct and the TP wouldn't be ready - but since changed again) - they replied today telling me to apply for both !! 

What Embassy are you using?

 

I almost wish I had to do it before just to see how it would have went

Our Thai Consulate is very small, we just walk in for anything we need and they usually  take us right then

 

Not saying they would be any more helpful or knowledgeable than others though

 

[Benroon]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

What Embassy are you using?

I almost wish I had to do it before just to see how it would have went

Our Thai Consulate is very small, we just walk in for anything we need and they usually  take us right then

Not saying they would be any more helpful or knowledgeable than others though

London - and I genuinely feel sorry for them , they are trying to do their jobs with their hands tied behind their backs whilst blindfolded ! The girl I spoke to genuinely sounded like she needed a hug !

[Soidog]

5 minutes ago, Benroon said:

London - and I genuinely feel sorry for them , they are trying to do their jobs with their hands tied behind their backs whilst blindfolded ! The girl I spoke to genuinely sounded like she needed a hug !

I think in the U.K. all consulates have been closed and everything is now routed to the London Embassy. I’m not sure that this is the same in other countries but it seems so in the U.K., unless I’m mistaken?