Poland - Is the EU starting to crumble

[gummy]

As everybody knows the UK were te first to leave the EU and at the time there were arguments for an against as to whether the EU was sustainable.  Now it was considered perhaps then that Italy may be the next but this latest news indicates that it could be Poland. Surprising that as they are a net winner from the EU in terms of money received.

Poland stokes fears of leaving EU in 'Polexit' - BBC News

[AussieBob]

43 minutes ago, gummy said:

As everybody knows the UK were te first to leave the EU and at the time there were arguments for an against as to whether the EU was sustainable.  Now it was considered perhaps then that Italy may be the next but this latest news indicates that it could be Poland. Surprising that as they are a net winner from the EU in terms of money received.

Poland stokes fears of leaving EU in 'Polexit' - BBC News

Not before time too - hope their whole houses crashes and burns.  One telling quote from that article is "the dictatorship of the Brussels bureaucracy".  The EU was about trading when it started - but Germany and France also saw it as a way to 'unify Europe'. Problem was they they based that unification upon their own values and beliefs - and as with all bureaucracies they started to over-reach. Through decades of threats and abuse they have enforced those every increasingly liberal woke values and beliefs, irrespective of the stupidity of the outcomes.  When it got to the point where British fisherman were banned from fishing in their own waters, but fishermen from other countries could, that was when I decided that it had to go. But with all dictatorships, they usually have to be removed by force - they rarely accept they are wrong and willingly leave. 

[gummy]

44 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Not before time too - hope their whole houses crashes and burns.  One telling quote from that article is "the dictatorship of the Brussels bureaucracy".  The EU was about trading when it started - but Germany and France also saw it as a way to 'unify Europe'. Problem was they they based that unification upon their own values and beliefs - and as with all bureaucracies they started to over-reach. Through decades of threats and abuse they have enforced those every increasingly liberal woke values and beliefs, irrespective of the stupidity of the outcomes.  When it got to the point where British fisherman were banned from fishing in their own waters, but fishermen from other countries could, that was when I decided that it had to go. But with all dictatorships, they usually have to be removed by force - they rarely accept they are wrong and willingly leave. 

Well quite.  When we were given the choice in the 70's of the "Common Market" that is exactly what I voted for because trading with each other in the easiest way was considered beneficial to all in the long term. Then of course it mutated into the EU, mainly due to Germany and France. I suspect that deep down they have never forgiven anybody for their respective attempted control of European nations that were both  beaten back. Both the Germans and the French I suspect thought that by aligning themselves to an EU primarily rigged in their favour that between them they could achieve the European dominance that their forefathers failed to do. Only time will tell as to whether their dreams will come true or whether it will crumble and be seen by future generations as an European venture that did not stand the test of time.

[palooka]

I thought that the EU would fall apart when they had the liquidity problem of the P.I.G.S., Portugal, Italy Greece and Spain some years ago.  It was suggested to me, by a corporate banker that I knew, that many of these countries cheated their way into the EU membership. Supposedly for membership you had to show so many billions of dollars or equivalent.  Apparently they all borrowed the money, showed it for membership and then repaid it, after qualifying, with huge interest.That banker retired on the commissions he made from this.

Glad the UK got out, may have short term pain but will come back stronger.

[PBS]

4 hours ago, gummy said:

As everybody knows the UK were te first to leave the EU and at the time there were arguments for an against as to whether the EU was sustainable.  Now it was considered perhaps then that Italy may be the next but this latest news indicates that it could be Poland. Surprising that as they are a net winner from the EU in terms of money received.

Poland stokes fears of leaving EU in 'Polexit' - BBC News

Poland has been gradually moving to an authoritarian government for a while. The article is an an example of the BS baffles brains propaganda emanating from the right of centre. The  anti democratic ideology which picked up speed during trump's incumbency and pushed by the likes of Bannon and others in Europe is a direct threat to stability in Europe. Hopefully saner minds gain the ascendency in the political dialogue to guide European politics in a more positive direction for future generations.

[gummy]

1 minute ago, PBS said:

Poland has been gradually moving to an authoritarian government for a while. The article is an an example of the BS baffles brains propaganda emanating from the right of centre. The  anti democratic ideology which picked up speed during trump's incumbency and pushed by the likes of Bannon and others in Europe is a direct threat to stability in Europe. Hopefully saner minds gain the ascendency in the political dialogue to guide European politics in a more positive direction for future generations.

So do you think the EU will survive in the long term  ? 

[Fester]

3 hours ago, gummy said:

Well quite.  When we were given the choice in the 70's of the "Common Market" that is exactly what I voted for because trading with each other in the easiest way was considered beneficial to all in the long term. Then of course it mutated into the EU, mainly due to Germany and France. I suspect that deep down they have never forgiven anybody for their respective attempted control of European nations that were both  beaten back. Both the Germans and the French I suspect thought that by aligning themselves to an EU primarily rigged in their favour that between them they could achieve the European dominance that their forefathers failed to do. Only time will tell as to whether their dreams will come true or whether it will crumble and be seen by future generations as an European venture that did not stand the test of time.

The Polish are (again) lashing back at the issue of EU law having primacy over their own national law. When the UK joined the EEC in 1973, this was already an issue (within the Treaty of Rome), which immediately involved a substantial loss of sovereignty. This fact was either deceptively hidden by Ted Heath or ignored by the voters, despite warnings of less popular politicians of the day, particularly from Powell and Shore.

EU Law has expanded since then to give Brussels power over so many important issues that more and more Europeans think should be decided at a national level. The "Common Market" (Treaty of Rome) was always much more than an economic agreement.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Fester
gerammer

[Fester]

19 minutes ago, PBS said:

Poland has been gradually moving to an authoritarian government for a while. The article is an an example of the BS baffles brains propaganda emanating from the right of centre. The  anti democratic ideology which picked up speed during trump's incumbency and pushed by the likes of Bannon and others in Europe is a direct threat to stability in Europe. Hopefully saner minds gain the ascendency in the political dialogue to guide European politics in a more positive direction for future generations.

Trump again! Now Bannon too? What a croak.

[gummy]

Just now, Fester said:

Trump again! Now Bannon too? What a croak.

These two have nothing to do with the thread

[Fester]

1 hour ago, palooka said:

I thought that the EU would fall apart when they had the liquidity problem of the P.I.G.S., Portugal, Italy Greece and Spain some years ago.  It was suggested to me, by a corporate banker that I knew, that many of these countries cheated their way into the EU membership. Supposedly for membership you had to show so many billions of dollars or equivalent.  Apparently they all borrowed the money, showed it for membership and then repaid it, after qualifying, with huge interest.That banker retired on the commissions he made from this.

Glad the UK got out, may have short term pain but will come back stronger.

The EU cheated by breaking their own rules as they have done since the EEC/EU creation . All they care about is absorbing as many members in as possible to reach their goal of creating a single European superstate. The Greeks cheated too but the EU knew the numbers and let them do it . Another good reason to reject the whole show. 

 

[Fluke]

25 minutes ago, PBS said:

Poland has been gradually moving to an authoritarian government for a while. The article is an an example of the BS baffles brains propaganda emanating from the right of centre. The  anti democratic ideology which picked up speed during trump's incumbency and pushed by the likes of Bannon and others in Europe is a direct threat to stability in Europe. Hopefully saner minds gain the ascendency in the political dialogue to guide European politics in a more positive direction for future generations.

Apart from the fact that this is a current development and Biden is now POTUS and also this story has nothing at all to do with the USA and completely nothing to do with Trump

[gummy]

Just now, Fluke said:

Apart from the fact that this is a current development and Biden is now POTUS and also this story has nothing at all to do with the USA and completely nothing to do with Trump

Credit where credit is do, you are spot on there sir

[Fester]

7 minutes ago, gummy said:

These two have nothing to do with the thread

As I implied! 

[PBS]

47 minutes ago, gummy said:

So do you think the EU will survive in the long term  ? 

Too much blood already shed in Europe, so hope so, otherwise, IMO,  will revert to conflict.

[PBS]

33 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Apart from the fact that this is a current development and Biden is now POTUS and also this story has nothing at all to do with the USA and completely nothing to do with Trump

You're denying fact, trump and co have been cultivating anti government / anti democratic ideology throughout Western democracies; actually actively standing beside budding authoritarians in e.g. in Poland and Hungary; We are observing some of the outcomes of their efforts. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by PBS

[Fluke]

1 minute ago, PBS said:

You're denying fact, trump and co have been cultivating anti government / anti democratic ideology throughout Western democracies; actually actively standing beside budding authoritarians in e.g. in Poland and Hungary, plus other authoritarian wannabes such as Duterte.

Try to get Trump out your head ,  I for one am bored shitless talking about him 

[AussieBob]

8 minutes ago, PBS said:

You're denying fact, trump and co have been cultivating anti government / anti democratic ideology throughout Western democracies; actually actively standing beside budding authoritarians in e.g. in Poland and Hungary; We are observing some of the outcomes of their efforts. 

You need some help about seeing reality - cognitive bias has you trapped. It has absolutely nothing to do with that guy inside your head, and everything to do with the politics of countries like Poland that are going more right wing. You do not agree with or accept that they have that right to go right - and in that frame of mind you are wrong - the Polish people voted for a Govt that stood on a right wing anti-EU platform. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with that - and some arrogant real estate billionaire from New York had no influence over how the Polish people voted. 

[PBS]

4 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Try to get Trump out your head ,  I for one am bored shitless talking about him 

Tell someone who cares,

Get over your lack of knowledge and do some research. trump ideological influencing efforts during his administration and various others associated with him are relevant today to political events in Poland.

[AussieBob]

40 minutes ago, PBS said:

Tell someone who cares,

Get over your lack of knowledge and do some research. trump ideological influencing efforts during his administration and various others associated with him are relevant today to political events in Poland.

Apparently this guy doesn't care that most others are bored.  Then he bursts into yet another anti-Trump tirade of abuse.  Time to invoke rule:  Ignore all Posts, Replies, Messages. 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Smithydog
Expletive Removed

[PBS]

7 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

You do not agree with or accept that they have that right to go right - and in that frame of mind you are wrong

I am voicing my POV. I will not accept right of centre politics and the evil that goes with it nor do I accept you and others efforts to censor. You and others obviously accept and in some cases support right of centre ideology, which I view as a gross error of judgement both morally and ethically - end of.

Edited October 9, 2021 by PBS

[palooka]

- end of.

Thank you

[Fluke]

18 minutes ago, PBS said:

I am voicing my POV. I will not accept right of centre politics and the evil that goes with it nor do I accept you and others efforts to censor. You and others obviously accept and in some cases support right of centre ideology, which I view as a gross error of judgement both morally and ethically - end of.

Yes, rather typical , the "tolerant" Left, refusing to accept that others have a different opinion to them and those with a different opinion need to be attacked and silenced , because they are WRONG 

[Rookiescot]

Nope. Poland is not going to leave the EU.

This is just some right wing nutjobs appealing to their supporters using dog whistles like sovereignty. 

As the UK is now finding out. You cant eat sovereignty. 

[Fluke]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Nope. Poland is not going to leave the EU.

This is just some right wing nutjobs appealing to their supporters using dog whistles like sovereignty. 

 

Are you aware that this story is about the Prime minister of Poland and that Poland top law Courts have recently rejected E.U laws in favour of Polish laws ?

[PBS]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

These two have nothing to do with the thread

Incorrect. Take a look a Bannon's activities in Europe over the past few years influencing anti democratic ideology; trump has been heavily influenced by Bannon for years and so far as I know has never outright rejected Bannon's and others anti government / anti democratic ideology, Surely you are not trying to deny trump and Bannon's ideological influence to the right of centre in Poland, to this day, as that would be you ignoring fact.