Collapse of China

[Stardust]

21 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Two things.  This was in response to which country the USA or China was in the worst financial shape and potentially was a deck of cards ready to fall.  I said the USA. 

Secondly, yes I have heard of the G7.  The USA is 1 of the 7 and comprises 86% of the GDP of the other 6 countries combined.  The USA and China combined are 1.6 times larger GDP than the other 6 nations combined.   That is not to disparage them merely to point out, that that China with 1.4 billion people and the USA with 330 million people create a disproportionate amount of GDP compared to the rest of the world.  Though the USA has the largest GDP I still contend it is in worse shape financially than China. I would venture an estimate that China is in better shape financially than the other 6 countries in the G6 as well. 

Eu union only 19,6 trilloin usd gdp and nominal 15,2 trillion usd gdp and all european countries higher than the us because Norway, uk, swiss etc etc are not in the eu! Anyway the Eu gdp is higher than China and you claimed usa and china are the biggest! 

[longwood50]

2 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Eu union only 19,6 trilloin usd gdp and nominal 15,2 trillion usd gdp and all european countries higher than the us because Norway, uk, swiss etc etc are not in the eu! Anyway the Eu gdp is higher than China and you claimed usa and china are the biggest! 

Oh I didn't realize that the EU was "a country"  Can I include all of the Americas in my calculation too? 

[longwood50]

26 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I guess you even don't know that alone India has the 2nd largest population in the world! Who is delusional? And who claimed the Chinese gdp is higher than Europe?!

1. I believe it is you who is delusional.  I never said anything about India.  I said China has 1.4 billion people and I said the USA had 330 million people.  

2. I never claimed that China had a higher GDP than Europe.  Now, perhaps in your mind because India was part of the British Empire you will include them.  You seem to include every country including the Scandinavian Countries to make your point.  The fact is that THE USA and China are  "countries"  Europe is not.  Also post Brexit the European Union will lose a significant portion of whatever bragging rights it has to GDP numbers. 

I am not even sure why you think this dog is in the fight.  My original post declared only that I believe China was better positioned than the USA to which you countered with some ridiculous post stating I thought the world revolved around only those two countries.  

Perhaps you should learn to read. 

[Stardust]

Latest market info about the regularity crackdown in China

 

48 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

1. I believe it is you who is delusional.  I never said anything about India.  I said China has 1.4 billion people and I said the USA had 330 million people.  

2. I never claimed that China had a higher GDP than Europe.  Now, perhaps in your mind because India was part of the British Empire you will include them.  You seem to include every country including the Scandinavian Countries to make your point.  The fact is that THE USA and China are  "countries"  Europe is not.  Also post Brexit the European Union will lose a significant portion of whatever bragging rights it has to GDP numbers. 

I am not even sure why you think this dog is in the fight.  My original post declared only that I believe China was better positioned than the USA to which you countered with some ridiculous post stating I thought the world revolved around only those two countries.  

Perhaps you should learn to read. 

Maybe you should read market and actual economic reports about China first! 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Latest market info about the regularity crackdown in China

Maybe you should read market and actual economic reports about China first! 

Maybe this helps, too understand

 

 

[Fester]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:46 PM, billywillyjones said:

Yeah but one must also understand China has done mass printing of its currency which has then been funneled to subsidize and support companies which are either public or a questionable form of private.  You may not see a welfare state but the welfare state is the government pushing money to companines and many are not even profitable all in an effort to create jobs.  Some Chinese enterprised are competitive in a real world climate but many are not at this stage.  The next step in the Chinese strategy is to eliminate the competition then increase the price.

China is by no  means tranparent and a lot of debt is hidden at the municipal level.  Additionally Wall Street has aided in these shenanigans by not asking Chinese companies for proper reporting as is done in America.  China may well be a house of cards in the making.

Like nowhere else has a house with a surplus of jokers? If you want to talk about money printing, start with the US, then carry on with the EU, Japan and the UK. 

[Fester]

On 10/5/2021 at 6:23 PM, Rookiescot said:

Wait I got it.

The real boogieman is Michael Jackson.

 

Christ! Now I'm sure we're in trouble.

[Fester]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:12 PM, Stardust said:

You are really a dreamer. Please check the reality again and the facts and the real numbers of the world economy. And realize that there is not only the USA and China in the world. And please recorcdnice that we already experienced the collapse of the soviet uniin block. And reality and propaganda is not the same, especially from the polit buro Xi. It seams in Europe they have more experience about that because of the former crashes and experiences! 

Poor comparison. After WW2 the Soviet Union was never very strong, economically.

[billywillyjones]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Like nowhere else has a house with a surplus of jokers? If you want to talk about money printing, start with the US, then carry on with the EU, Japan and the UK. 

What does the usa have to do with a discussion on China?  If you actually do some research you will see that China's real debt exceeds the usa.  I am not giving the usa a free pass the debt there is too much as well.

[Fester]

3 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

What does the usa have to do with a discussion on China?  If you actually do some research you will see that China's real debt exceeds the usa.  I am not giving the usa a free pass the debt there is too much as well.

I am constantly researching and learning. You mentioned America in your post.

Let's stick to money printing - show me how China has managed to outprint the Fed.  

[billywillyjones]

Just now, Fester said:

I am constantly researching and learning. You mentioned America in your post.

Let's stick to money printing - show me how China has managed to outprint the Fed.  

Do you really believe China is going to be transparent in their money printing?  The debt is mainly buried at the municipal level.  Do some more research and you will see it. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampesek/2021/09/30/goldman-flags-82-trillion-threat-worse-than-china-evergrande/

[ThailandRyan]

12 minutes ago, Fester said:

I am constantly researching and learning. You mentioned America in your post.

Let's stick to money printing - show me how China has managed to outprint the Fed.  

Not sure they out-printed, instead it seems they just built many many huge ghost towns that are uninhabited as a way to keep the economy moving.  Much about Fakery as one can get with money coming from who knows where.

[gummy]

8 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Do you really believe China is going to be transparent in their money printing?  The debt is mainly buried at the municipal level.  Do some more research and you will see it. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampesek/2021/09/30/goldman-flags-82-trillion-threat-worse-than-china-evergrande/

Why of course "Forbes" that American company , owned by an American family, who else to give an unbiased opinion on the Americans arch enemy China 

[Fester]

12 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Do you really believe China is going to be transparent in their money printing?  The debt is mainly buried at the municipal level.  Do some more research and you will see it. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampesek/2021/09/30/goldman-flags-82-trillion-threat-worse-than-china-evergrande/

I don't believe that China is going to be transparent in much of anything but if that is the case how can you "see it". I can't open your link and decline to close my ad blocker.

[Fester]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Not sure they out-printed, instead it seems they just built many many huge ghost towns that are uninhabited as a way to keep the economy moving.  Much about Fakery as one can get with money coming from who knows where.

The question was about money printing but, yes, the ghost towns have been difficult to hide for years.

 

[billywillyjones]

1 minute ago, Fester said:

I don't believe that China is going to be transparent in much of anything but if that is the case how can you "see it". I can't open your link and decline to close my ad blocker.

Just look up the article or others.  There have been many lately discussing China's transparency and how debt is hidden.

[AussieBob]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/world-markets/second-chinese-property-developer-fantasia-defaults-amid-evergrande-fiasco/news-story/11209d0bf8e53209ceca005b11c19545

"Evergrande, the world’s most indebted real estate company, is facing ruin as it struggles to repay its staggering $A408 billion debts. "

"Now, it appears that grim prediction might be coming to pass, with a second major Chinese real estate firm ailing."

And lets not talk about how connected families in SEAsian countries are allegedly renown for creating family wealth through being given special treatments and preferential business deals.

"Founded in Shenzhen in 1996 by the niece of a former Chinese vice-president, Fantasia Holdings Group Company Limited is another leading Chinese property developer."

My answer to the post's question is:  probably not. 

But is the Chinese property boom that has been a critical factor in underpinning their massive economic growth coming to an end? Probably yes.  Will this lead to another GFC like what happened when the collapse of the USA property market caused several leading International banks to collapse because they had leveraged far too much against those massively over-inflated property values? Not likely.  Whatever collapse that will happen will likely be limited to within the economic influence of China - because their banking and finance systems have not been allowed inside the DMZ of the western financial system. Will that flow on affect Thailand - Hell Yes.

[Stardust]

21 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Oh I didn't realize that the EU was "a country"  Can I include all of the Americas in my calculation too? 

European Union has a parliament! European Union...united States!

[Stardust]

Just now, Stardust said:

European Union has a parliament! European Union...united States!

This right wing extremists and Trump extrimists are usefull idiots for the Ccp and Putin. Why they not move to their beloved dictatorships to North Korea, Ccp China or Russia. This would be the best solution because they hate western countries and they hate democracy. 

[Fluke]

2 minutes ago, Stardust said:

This right wing extremists and Trump extrimists are usefull idiots for the Ccp and Putin. Why they not move to their beloved dictatorships to North Korea, Ccp China or Russia. This would be the best solution because they hate western countries and they hate democracy. 

Trump is no longer POTUS , Joe Biden is now POTUS

[Stardust]

22 hours ago, longwood50 said:

1. I believe it is you who is delusional.  I never said anything about India.  I said China has 1.4 billion people and I said the USA had 330 million people.  

2. I never claimed that China had a higher GDP than Europe.  Now, perhaps in your mind because India was part of the British Empire you will include them.  You seem to include every country including the Scandinavian Countries to make your point.  The fact is that THE USA and China are  "countries"  Europe is not.  Also post Brexit the European Union will lose a significant portion of whatever bragging rights it has to GDP numbers. 

I am not even sure why you think this dog is in the fight.  My original post declared only that I believe China was better positioned than the USA to which you countered with some ridiculous post stating I thought the world revolved around only those two countries.  

Perhaps you should learn to read. 

Typical right wing American, Trump extemists, Q Anan thrash and garbage. I really wondering how this toxic people could have any ground in the USA. They are openly enemies of the free world and democracies, advocating dictatorships and want to transform the democratic countries in countries like North Korea or China. Why you guys not leave and move to your beloved dictatorships to North Korea?! 

[Fluke]

7 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Typical right wing American, Trump extemists, Q Anan thrash and garbage. I really wondering how this toxic people could have any ground in the USA. They are openly enemies of the free world and democracies, advocating dictatorships and want to transform the democratic countries in countries like North Korea or China. Why you guys not leave and move to your beloved dictatorships to North Korea?! 

Try and forget about Trump , this fixation with him cannot be healthy

[gummy]

22 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Why you guys not leave and move to your beloved dictatorships to North Korea?! 

Possibly because they are unwilling to have that silly haircut ? 

[longwood50]

33 minutes ago, Stardust said:

European Union has a parliament! European Union...united States!

Not sure where you went to school But European Union is not "a country" It is a trade zone. 

Maybe this should help you.  These are "continents"  Europe is a continent.  

Sorry you feel so have an inferiority complex regarding the comparison to the USA.  As mentioned about 3 times and you still don't seem to get it.  My original post was that China was more likely to be on solid financial footing compared to the USA.  I said nothing regarding the European Trading Block.  It is much like NAFTA which combines Mexico, the USA, and Canada.

 

These are continents.  Different than countries

 

 

These are countries

 

This is a trading bloc.  Not a Country or a Continent

 

[Stardust]

15 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Not sure where you went to school But European Union is not "a country" It is a trade zone. 

Maybe this should help you.  These are "continents"  Europe is a continent.  

Sorry you feel so have an inferiority complex regarding the comparison to the USA.  As mentioned about 3 times and you still don't seem to get it.  My original post was that China was more likely to be on solid financial footing compared to the USA.  I said nothing regarding the European Trading Block.  It is much like NAFTA which combines Mexico, the USA, and Canada.

 

These are continents.  Different than countries

 

 

These are countries

 

This is a trading bloc.  Not a Country or a Continent

 

I went really not to school in the USA I was lucky to go the university in Europe. EU a trade zone better you go to school again! .Did you ever heard Brussel the European Parliament?! Or Strassburg. You are uneducated but want to educate people and want to educate about europe but has no knowledge about it!