Collapse of China

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

This right wing extremists and Trump extrimists are usefull idiots for the Ccp and Putin. Why they not move to their beloved dictatorships to North Korea, Ccp China or Russia. This would be the best solution because they hate western countries and they hate democracy. 

What does your post have to do with the Collapse of China and Evergrandes default causing a ripple effect.

[Stardust]

20 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

What does your post have to do with the Collapse of China and Evergrandes default causing a ripple effect.

Yes some extremes brought America inside. But you are right the topic was Collapse of China and they bring always the USA inside. Thats what they do always also when the topic is about Thailand. Thank you for remind everybody about the topic.

[Fluke]

5 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Yes some extremes brought America inside. But you are right the topic was Collapse of China and they bring always the USA inside. Thats what they do always also when the topic is about Thailand. Thank you for remind everybody about the topic.

He was referring to you ranting about Trump for no reason what so ever 

[Stardust]

7 minutes ago, Fluke said:

He was referring to you ranting about Trump for no reason what so ever 

For sure I brought not America and USA politics inside better you follow the comments before! Then you would also understood my answer. And no more about it as Thailand Ryan already said it is another topic!

[Fluke]

6 minutes ago, Stardust said:

For sure I brought not America and USA politics inside better you follow the comments before! Then you would also understood my answer. And no more about it as Thailand Ryan already said it is another topic!

Oh OK, some elses fault then .

[Rain]

Lotsa unreasonable and seemingly anxious paranoia here.

Hmmm.....why is this?

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, Rain said:

Lotsa unreasonable and seemingly anxious paranoia here.

Hmmm.....why is this?

Care to explain your Anxious Paranoia here comment.  No ones anxious that I see, many just discussing what is, what has, and the potential for what may or may not happen.   

[Fester]

3 hours ago, Stardust said:

European Union has a parliament! European Union...united States!

It adopted a flag and an anthem too. But it is not a sovereign nation. Next.

[gummy]

2 minutes ago, Fester said:

It adopted a flag and an anthem too. But it is not a sovereign nation. Next.

And administered by would be dictators in my opinion whose prime interests are their own.

[Fester]

3 hours ago, Stardust said:

This right wing extremists and Trump extrimists are usefull idiots for the Ccp and Putin. Why they not move to their beloved dictatorships to North Korea, Ccp China or Russia. This would be the best solution because they hate western countries and they hate democracy. 

If I can interrupt you as you talk amongst yourself, it seems that, from his performance to date, Pres. Biden and his pals are far more idiotic and hence much more useful to Russia, North Korea and China than Trump & Co ever was.

Additionally, when it comes to democracy, it seems that the Democratic Party is completeley falsely named today and should be called the

             

 

Party (title to be backdated to January 2021).

[Fester]

20 minutes ago, gummy said:

And administered by would be dictators in my opinion whose prime interests are their own.

Maybe........ it might be.....

 

 

 

 

 

Oooh nooo!

[longwood50]

3 hours ago, Stardust said:

I went really not to school in the USA I was lucky to go the university in Europe

Was this an Online University?  Perhaps if it is not too late you can ask for a refund.  

According to Google the EU is the worlds largest "trading bloc"  

Unless something has changed that the world is not aware of, Europe is a continent comprised of separate countries.  Each with unique borders, language, and laws.  

The EU is a compact of countries to foster trade.  Not a government, not a country, but rather a "union" to foster trade between the "member countries"  



Now using that definition, the USA has the NAFTA trade pact with Mexico and Canada.  It also has trade pacts with China, and Japan, As a matter of fact the USA has trade pacs with over 20 countries.  So I guess using your definition the USA gets to accumulate the GDP of all of those 20 countries as well. 
 

 

 

The United States has agreements in force with 20 countries: Australia, Bahrain, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, Morocco, Nicaragua, Oman, Panama, Peru, Singapore, and South Korea.

 

[Stardust]

15 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Was this an Online University?  Perhaps if it is not too late you can ask for a refund.  

According to Google the EU is the worlds largest "trading bloc"  

Unless something has changed that the world is not aware of, Europe is a continent comprised of separate countries.  Each with unique borders, language, and laws.  

The EU is a compact of countries to foster trade.  Not a government, not a country, but rather a "union" to foster trade between the "member countries"  



Now using that definition, the USA has the NAFTA trade pact with Mexico and Canada.  It also has trade pacts with China, and Japan, As a matter of fact the USA has trade pacs with over 20 countries.  So I guess using your definition the USA gets to accumulate the GDP of all of those 20 countries as well. 
 

 

 

The United States has agreements in force with 20 countries: Australia, Bahrain, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, Morocco, Nicaragua, Oman, Panama, Peru, Singapore, and South Korea.

 

Sure and thats why they have a parliament. You are really an empty head. And it is not USA this topic but I understand reading is difficult for you. Your school was google I guess but you didn't learn to use it otherwise you would find Brussel and Strassbourg , then maybe you could find out it is not for trading. And from now no more off topic and no American politics because it is about China but I understand for narcistic people it is not easy because they wanna be always the topic!

[Stardust]

Just now, Stardust said:

Sure and thats why they have a parliament. You are really an empty head. And it is not USA this topic but I understand reading is difficult for you. Your school was google I guess but you didn't learn to use it otherwise you would find Brussel and Strassbourg , then maybe you could find out it is not for trading. And from now no more off topic and no American politics because it is about China but I understand for narcistic people it is not easy because they wanna be always the topic!

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT AMERICA IT IS ABOUT CHINA! For all Q anan and other right wing extremists keep your toxic thrash or discuss it on an American Forum!

[Fluke]

11 minutes ago, Stardust said:

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT AMERICA IT IS ABOUT CHINA! For all Q anan and other right wing extremists keep your toxic thrash or discuss it on an American Forum!

Poor handle control . 

Need to log out and then back in again , rather than replying to yourself 

[Stardust]

4 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Poor handle control . 

Need to log out and then back in again , rather than replying to yourself 

Ok last warning to you if you wanna provocate and stay off topic it will go directly to the moderators! Do you understand this language?!

[Russell]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT AMERICA IT IS ABOUT CHINA! For all Q anan and other right wing extremists keep your toxic thrash or discuss it on an American Forum!

Then why are you carrying on about the EU? So you keep your toxic off topic EU trash. You are no better than anyone else but you think you are.

 

[Rookiescot]

Meanwhile in China

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-property-fantasia-turns-nightmarish-11633522146 

Fantasia is far smaller than Evergrande but it would appear defaulting on loans is becoming a trend.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Rookiescot

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, whitesnake said:

$300 billion "Dollar" debt and imminent defaults... I kinda think they're screwed!

Things like this will be replicated everywhere, post Covid! Here in Thailand, nothing is owned... all purchased on borrowed money with Thai people's greed to show off and try to be something they're not. I hope the Thai Banks feel the fall out too and start calling in some of their loans too!! That would be fun to watch!!

  https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/09/30/china-evergrande-crisis-why-it-matters.html

Imagine what might be if everyone truly realized there isn't any wealth - anywhere.

What we consider wealth is highly fanciful and deeply deluded. 

[Convert54]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

Imagine what might be if everyone truly realized there isn't any wealth - anywhere.

What we consider wealth is highly fanciful and deeply deluded. 

There goes my lifelong dream !

 

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

Imagine what might be if everyone truly realized there isn't any wealth - anywhere.

What we consider wealth is highly fanciful and deeply deluded. 

[Stardust]

Fzlling drones and falling economy

 

 

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, Rain said:

Imagine what might be if everyone truly realized there isn't any wealth - anywhere.

What we consider wealth is highly fanciful and deeply deluded. 

Wish I was highly fanciful and deeply deluded 

I will say this though. There is plenty of wealth in the world. It just isn't spread out very well. 

[Rain]

^ Typical.

I rest my case.

[palooka]

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Investment bank JPMorgan has estimated that troubled Chinese property giant Evergrande and many of its major rivals have billions of dollars worth of off-balance sheet debt that, once added on, ramp up their leverage ratios.

JPMorgan's China and Hong Kong property analysts said the tactic is likely to have been used to help firms look like they were conforming with new borrowing cap rules introduced last year, but Evergrande's case looks the most extreme.

"Instead of true deleveraging, we think Evergrande has shifted some of the interest-bearing debt to off-balance sheet debt," JPMorgan's analysts said. "Commercial papers, wealth management products and perpetual capital securities, etc, which are not officially counted as debt."

 

They estimated Evergrande's "net gearing," as debt as a ratio of a firm's equity is known, was at least 177% at the end of the first half of the year, instead of the 100% its accounts reported.

"It is possible that the real gearing could be even higher, as data on some off-balance sheet debt is not publicly available," JPMorgan added, saying the "disguised" debt as it called it added up to 55% of Evergrande's overall debt.

Other major firms whose gearing levels were likely to be higher than formally reported included R&F Properties at 139% versus the 123%, Sunac China Holdings at 138% versus 87% reported and Country Garden at 76% versus 50% reported.

Tricky Dicky accounting strikes again.

 

 

[gummy]

1 hour ago, palooka said:

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Investment bank JPMorgan has estimated that troubled Chinese property giant Evergrande and many of its major rivals have billions of dollars worth of off-balance sheet debt that, once added on, ramp up their leverage ratios.

JPMorgan's China and Hong Kong property analysts said the tactic is likely to have been used to help firms look like they were conforming with new borrowing cap rules introduced last year, but Evergrande's case looks the most extreme.

"Instead of true deleveraging, we think Evergrande has shifted some of the interest-bearing debt to off-balance sheet debt," JPMorgan's analysts said. "Commercial papers, wealth management products and perpetual capital securities, etc, which are not officially counted as debt."

 

They estimated Evergrande's "net gearing," as debt as a ratio of a firm's equity is known, was at least 177% at the end of the first half of the year, instead of the 100% its accounts reported.

"It is possible that the real gearing could be even higher, as data on some off-balance sheet debt is not publicly available," JPMorgan added, saying the "disguised" debt as it called it added up to 55% of Evergrande's overall debt.

Other major firms whose gearing levels were likely to be higher than formally reported included R&F Properties at 139% versus the 123%, Sunac China Holdings at 138% versus 87% reported and Country Garden at 76% versus 50% reported.

Tricky Dicky accounting strikes again.

 

 

Are these the self same financial experts who could not identify the onset of the 2007/2008 financial crisis  in their own country (America) or just people and companies of a similar name that are now suddenly experts regarding Chinese rather secretive financial matters ?  Just asking for clarity