News Forum - Court rules for Health Ministry, calls dual pricing beneficial

[Marc26]

2 minutes ago, Soidog said:

My point exactly and very well put @Bob20. This is a forum about Thailand. It’s not a Thailand appreciation society. I have plenty of things wrong in the U.K. and EU, and don’t even get me started on the U.S . It’s not the Thai people I have problems with. People are generally the same the world over. It’s their forms of government and leaders who are the issue.  

SoiDog I apologize, I totally read the 1st part of your post wrong

 

And agree 100% with the 2nd part

 

My bad

[Marc26]

15 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I do @Marc26. I spend a lot of my time in the U.K. and in Holland. I have business interests in Thailand as part of the Dutch company I work for also. My comments are not intended to be vitriolic, simply trying to balance out the negative comments and overly optimistic comments some people make about Thailand.
Thailand is a naturally beautiful country but socially living in a protectionist past. That’s all  I also don’t subscribe to this “if you don’t like it leave” attitude some people have,  I’m afraid that doesn’t progress the world at all and kills debate.  

I love the food also ! 

Sorry I posted another reply, I totally read your post wrong

I actually agree with you!  :)

 

 

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

SoiDog I apologize, I totally read the 1st part of your post wrong

And agree 100% with the 2nd part

My bad

Thanks @Marc26 but no need for any apology, we are all friends here (well most of us ). 
 

I mentioned about liking the food, but to add a little more balance, I also enjoy the relaxed way of living in Thailand. I do speak some Thai and can read a little also. That said, it’s great to be able to sit in a restaurant and not hear all the chatter about Brexit or Boris Johnston’s new dog or problems with taxes in the U.K.  The relaxed style of course also is a double edged sword. Nice to be able to park you bike or car more or less where you want but frustrating when someone is driving up the wrong side of the road at night with no lights on

[Bob20]

12 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I actually misread Soidog's post wrong, Soidog,  my bad

But it still stands in general. As you pointed out, there is a level of frustrating in travel and living overseas.

I certainly haven't handled it well at times, but you see such vitriol towards the country from so many expats/frequent visitors, yet they seem obsessed with the place. It is astounding to me, go find a place you feel more positive about

Well, you haven't seen it from me...

It is however, one of the reasons I am very selective in getting together with other foreigners. As often within minutes the subject is everything that is bad here and I agree fully, if you don't like it then why are you here?

But speaking for myself, I do see the shortcomings and positive sides (as I do in my own country) and before I complain all day, I'd be long gone!

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Well, you haven't seen it from me...

It is however, one of the reasons I am very selective in getting together with other foreigners. As often within minutes the subject is everything that is bad here and I agree fully, if you don't like it then why are you here?

But speaking for myself, I do see the shortcomings and positive sides (as I do in my own country) and before I complain all day, I'd be long gone!

Totally agree @Bob20. I use this forum to debate good and bad with any topic. I also hear some foreigners sat in bars and restaurants moaning about everything. Mind you, they would probably do that wherever they are? Those kinds of people are best avoided 

[Marc26]

25 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Well, you haven't seen it from me...

It is however, one of the reasons I am very selective in getting together with other foreigners. As often within minutes the subject is everything that is bad here and I agree fully, if you don't like it then why are you here?

But speaking for myself, I do see the shortcomings and positive sides (as I do in my own country) and before I complain all day, I'd be long gone!

I have met well over 100 guys from these forums and maybe 5 of them I didn't like..........

I don't like the miserable guys you come across, but meeting all those people from all over the world, has been the best part of my travels......

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, 9S_ said:

Will Thais fight for my right to get a free high quality vaccine with no restrictions like how Thais can go to the US without quarantine, walk into any pharmacy,  not show an ID or work permit or work visa or house registration and get a free high quality vaccine paid for the by the American taxpayer??

like these people

What's the connection between the two?

In different countries you obviously have different rights to different things, from visas to vaccines.

There's no direct reciprocity, and no possible reason for any.

[JamesR]

I suppose Thai people have paid taxes all of their lives which also subsidises hospitals and so why should a farang waltz into the country and not expect to pay more?

In the UK the health system is free to British nationals but visitors etc have to pay.

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, JamesR said:

I suppose Thai people have paid taxes all of their lives which also subsidises hospitals and so why should a farang waltz into the country and not expect to pay more?

In the UK the health system is free to British nationals but visitors etc have to pay.

Not for emergency treatment or GP treatment @JamesR  If you are on holiday or working or studying in the U.K. and need healthcare you will get it. Only in the case of elective surgery will it cost you. Before certain people get in to a hissy fit over my words. I know this case was about elective surgery and I’ve said before many times I don’t have a problem as a foreigner paying for that type of health care. But as a foreigner in Thailand you pay for all healthcare. Emergency or otherwise. Not the case in the U.K.  If you feel sick or under the weather, you don’t have to check your bank balance. You can go to the local GP and get treatment for free. Again not like in Thailand. The only thing you would pay for is any drugs and if you got them at the surgery pharmacist you would pay the same prescription price as a U.K. National. 

[JamesR]

12 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Not for emergency treatment or GP treatment @JamesR  If you are on holiday or working or studying in the U.K. and need healthcare you will get it. Only in the case of elective surgery will it cost you. Before certain people get in to a hissy fit over my words. I know this case was about elective surgery and I’ve said before many times I don’t have a problem as a foreigner paying for that type of health care. But as a foreigner in Thailand you pay for all healthcare. Emergency or otherwise. Not the case in the U.K.  If you feel sick or under the weather, you don’t have to check your bank balance. You can go to the local GP and get treatment for free. Again not like in Thailand. The only thing you would pay for is any drugs and if you got them at the surgery pharmacist you would pay the same prescription price as a U.K. National. 

Thanks for the info. 
it seems complicated , see the following link(using my iPhone so ignore any typos)

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/visitors-from-outside-the-european-economic-area-eea/

 

[Soidog]

14 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Thanks for the info. 
it seems complicated , see the following link(using my iPhone so ignore any typos)

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/visiting-or-moving-to-england/visitors-from-outside-the-european-economic-area-eea/

That’s quiet correct @JamesR. As your link shows, the listed items are exempt from charges (shown marked in red on attached picture).  
The problem the NHS has with this is that it is open to abuse. I know of a Canadian visitor who was told as part of his annual health check that he may require one or more stents to be fitted and that he should make an appointment. Realising the cost would be several thousand pounds, he faked taking sick while in a supermarket. The staff called an ambulance at 17:30. He was taken in to hospital and mentioned about his requirement to have a stent fitted. Two hours later he was in surgery and had two stents fitted. When he was asked where was he staying and how would he get back home a couple of days later, they arranged a taxi for him as they didn’t want him travelling on public transport. A nurse visited him twice over the next week. A month later he went back to have a further check at the hospital. Total cost £0. 
There are also many occasions where pregnant women claim to be six months pregnant but are actually near full term. They fly to the U.K. and have their baby there. Free of charge.
What is written as “The law” and in NHS documents is regularly abused and rarely do the NHS waste time pressing costs. They simply are not set up for it on any large scale.  

[DiJoDavO]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

But you're not a "local"!

You may like to be, but you're not. 

Around here, even if someone comes from a different village let alone a different province they're not a "local", let alone a different province or country, and that's the same all over the world except in some big khaki cities so what makes you so special?

You can - just get a work permit and a job, the you'll be charged the same tax and you'll go from being Tier 4 to being Tier 3.

You're complaining about and want something you can already have!

I'm confused here. You said earlier that tier 3 doesn't pay as much tax as tier 2, hence it's more expensive when getting treatment at the hospital. That's why I said, just let me pay as much tax, so the price of a treatment can be equal too. 

I mean, if they just do this, there's no one who would complain or maybe even try to link it to discrimination or racism. At least, not me. After having lived here for a long time now, I wouldn't mind to pay a bit more on that just to make that 'farang tax' go away which I have to pay everywhere I go. 

Btw, don't nitpick about my word choice. By 'local' I mean someone who has lived at a certain place for a long time already. If someone has been living somewhere for a long time already, people will know he's from that place, so he/she can be treated the same as the others who live there. 

[MikeTexas]

So America should heavily charge Thailand for any vaccine doses given to Thailand.  Under the health ministry's logic that would be acceptable...as it benefits America.  In this American pricing strategy for vaccines, we would rank it on GDP.  Thailand is 26th of 213 countries placing it in the top 15% Tier.  As such the price per dose will be 1.5x retail.  
Last year when the USA was having all the race riots I was surprised that the locals in Thailand didn't realize their country was more racist.  At least in America everyone is legally guaranteed equality.  This provides them the opportunity to legally fight for their rights when they are not treated equally - hence the riots.  The fact that in Thailand inequality is institutionalized by the government, through dual pricing and other policies, makes it seem to the populous as not just ordinary but just.  I think if more of them traveled abroad they would have a different view about how their country treats foreigners.  Over time I think Vietnam will start to take more and more business away from Thailand which is a shame as Thailand depends so heavily on tourism for their economy to run.   

[DiJoDavO]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

If you can't pay for it, go home.

Why should Thailand (and foreign taxpayers)  take responsibility for subsidising your treatment, as Erwin Buse was demanding they subsidise his prostate cancer treatment?

Idk where you get the idea from that I am living here and not pay tax. The reason I'm upset is that I do pay tax and I'm not treated equally. 

Just so you know, I am home. I've bought a house here in Thailand, married and live here for a long time already, looking forward living here for the rest of my life. People around me treat me like a local (looking at your previous post, maybe they don't do that to you) but whenever you go somewhere else in Thailand (the country you pay tax to) they just think white skin = money. No matter if you show your passport, wp, or even speak Thai (sometimes this works) mostly you still have to pay foreign prices. 

[AussieBob]

This is merely a step in the process to remove many discriminatory Thai Govt policies against Expats, such as dual pricing.  It is merely one battle lost, in what will be many upcoming battles - the real issue is the war.  This loss has actually provided evidence that I hope the plaintiff will take to higher courts - at the very least it can be used by others who may take up the reins later.  To state that something that is discriminatory is legal because it benefits Thailand, proves the argument itself. The policy is discriminatory, otherwise the Department would have attempted to prove that it was not. The Department did not try to prove it was not discriminatory, but they based their defence and whole case on proving that the discriminatory policy was legal because it benefited Thais.

[Paco]

10 hours ago, LoongFred said:

Ok   30000 should be in dollars. If in baht you don’t meet the minimum for a marriage visa. Good you have insurance though. I guess it’s life on the edge for some.

When I was on a research grant, I took a second job. I’ve never regretted hard work. Also did the same when I had two kids at the university.

They have 30000 baht a month, is easy to have 400000 in your bank for a few months to get the visa and they married a long time. I agree regarding working, het you lazy you get nothing simple as that.. however they old

Edited September 30, 2021 by Paco

[Paco]

11 hours ago, Stonker said:

Then they shouldn't be here as that's below the minimum for a marriage extension and well below the minimum for a retirement extension.

But that's exactly what you're saying - that everyone should pay "equal pricing" for health care regardless of whether they're a taxpayer, a resident, a national, or a free loading parasite.

Do they in your country, whatever it is?

If not, why aren't you complaining equally vocally about your own country?

My country you walk in and they help you.. no matter who you are. Hey paying a bit more is ok but 50%? A Thai does not pay 50% taxes or 100% and you either in your country

Edited September 30, 2021 by Paco

[LoongFred]

10 hours ago, Soidog said:

Can people please stop PM me with posts sent by @Stonker. He talks one sided nonsense and causes me to respond (you know who you are)

@Stonker  talking nonsense and conflating issues as always. The 150% is for people who chose to travel or who seek medical treatment for things other than emergencies. This seems perfectly reasonable to me as I have said in numerous other posts. If you are a foreigner and need hospital treatment as a matter of urgency or need to visit a GP, those services are Free. As in NO charge. The attached is from a government website and explains this. For convenience I have also attached a couple of pictures showing the highlighted comment.
 

Furthermore, you will also see that there is a long list of people who are exempt from any costs. 
 

You know perfectly well the approach taken in the U.K. and how vastly different it is in Thailand. To spout on about costs and trying to suggest the authorities in Thailand are anything near as accommodating towards foreigners is utterly ridiculous. To draw a comparison is misrepresentation bordering on lies.  
 

You make a whole series of equally ridiculous claims relating to long stay visitors, retirees and migrants to the U.K.  Once again, you know perfectly well that the U.K. is a multicultural, multiethnic society that welcomes people from around the world to educate, work, marry and live in the country. They do this with a progressive attitude irrespective of wealth, gender or colour. While it may no longer be an open door to EU citizens, to claim otherwise is a clear distortion of the truth on the ground. I don’t know why you wish to run the U.K. down as I suspect you are a U.K. citizen? Perhaps you are upset if you no longer get your annual pension increases because you decided to trade in your residency in one of the finest countries in the world and now need to convince yourself of your actions being correct. Good luck to you. 
 

I would urge others to read the attached link to see the reality of the situation in the U.K.  rather than the nonsense Posted by Stonker. It’s simply fake news and, misrepresentation and frustrated lies.
 

Put in basic terms, If you come here on holiday or while being educated here and get knocked off your motorbike or get attacked in the street, you will be taken to hospital, get whatever treatment you need and not be charged. Equally, if you are working here and fall ill, go to your local GP (doctor) and you will be treated free of charge. Have a major problem that doesn’t need immediate treatment and do as many do. Pretend to be seriously sick and go to A&E You will be treated free of charge. The only people who get charged are those rich Arabs and wealthy foreigners  who prefer to come to the U.K. for their treatment and are happy to pay the surcharge. Just as I would in Thailand. The suggestion that some old person who is not a resident falling sick and not getting treatment because they can’t afford it is an affront to the dedicated workers in the NHS!  
 

Now please, no more PM’s to me from this guy. I have only so much time to play his silly games 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care/how-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care

Sounds like you would be happier in the  UK. How easy is it to get your wife a visa there?

[LoongFred]

5 minutes ago, Paco said:

They have 30000 baht a month, is easy to have 400000 in your bank for a few months to get the visa and they married a long time. I agree regarding working, het you lazy you get nothing simple as that.. however they old

Your not in a good situation, sorry.

[Craig]

Don’t mess with ignorance here.  It’s a waste of time going to court for equal hospital and other fees.  Thailand is a developing? country with many poor people and it views a foreigner (rich or poor) as an ATM.  End of story.  

[mickkotlarski]

14 hours ago, Stonker said:

Exactly! Precxisely! That's exactly and precisely what European countries already do, as well as Western countries like Australia!

Name any that don't charge non-residents and non-nationals more.

Any at all!

Thailand.

[HiuMak]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Not for emergency treatment or GP treatment @JamesR  If you are on holiday or working or studying in the U.K. and need healthcare you will get it. Only in the case of elective surgery will it cost you. Before certain people get in to a hissy fit over my words. I know this case was about elective surgery and I’ve said before many times I don’t have a problem as a foreigner paying for that type of health care. But as a foreigner in Thailand you pay for all healthcare. Emergency or otherwise. Not the case in the U.K.  If you feel sick or under the weather, you don’t have to check your bank balance. You can go to the local GP and get treatment for free. Again not like in Thailand. The only thing you would pay for is any drugs and if you got them at the surgery pharmacist you would pay the same prescription price as a U.K. National. 

Some healthcare systems are more equal than others. There is no perfect system in any country. Thailand is not a developed country and may stay that way for a long time. Perhaps when it matures in its economic situation, governmental policies and GDP status, it will look into subsidizing heavily to residents who are non-citizens like some countries in Asia (e.g Singapore, Taiwan,etc). Most foreigners who pays tax (as an expatriat can be quite heavy for some) should be taken care of by the local healthcare systems in my opinion. However, not being a local (Thai citizen or even from provincial whose thai ID number can be different), no matter how long or how well you live and know Thailand, seems like it will not be equal. It's just how the game is. Ticket to play for me is to get health coverage and not rely fully on public healthcare support system. 

[LoongFred]

7 hours ago, EdwardV said:

It's not the same thing. Public universities in the US charge foreign students at the out of state rate. For example, if I want to go to Cal Berkeley I get charged the same if I'm from Colorado or Cambodia. Interestingly private schools don't charge extra. The real reason it costs so much for a foreign student in the US is because they are not eligible for most tuition assistance programs whether state or Federal. Of course because universities cost so much in the US too. However if I get sick and need to go to the local hospital, I get charged the same whether I'm from California, Colorado or Cambodia.  

Hospital not true. Price is with insurance or not. Those who are private pay probably pay double because insurance companies have deep discounts. Sure foreigners can get insurance but at a very high individual rate.

The out of state rate for UCB is probably close to Stanford. 

[Babbel]

I also love the quiet life style in a small town with open food markets. Charging different rates may sound wrong but still cheaper than at home, so if fighting it in court helps than good luck. In Canada I remember a Muslim joined the RCMP and courts ruled that he had the right to wear a turban instead of the official RCMP dress code hat that they are famous for the last 100 years.Also the lords prayer we all did in school is now out the window so protesting can change the rules.

[Paco]

1 hour ago, LoongFred said:

Your not in a good situation, sorry.

I think you not reading well, is not me with 30000 baht I said I know people that have only that... lol I work and got a lot more then that