News Forum - Court rules for Health Ministry, calls dual pricing beneficial

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

It's all relative. Here we complain about multi-tier pricing. A principle.

But in my experience the highest tier in a private hospital wasn't a quarter of the costs in Europe.

I don't agree with the reasons for the courtcase outcome as they are presented.

But we know the tier system here.

So that's what you will pay.

If you want to (and can) limit your risks, insure yourself.

If not, pay the bill.

Agreed 100%, @Bob20  - and that's in private hospitals.

In the UK you couldn't even get the medication on subsidised prescription for the same price I get charged every quarter in Thai hospitals, and so far (although things may change as a result of this case thanks to Erwin Buse) I get charged Tier 1 - exactly the same as any Thai.

I also agree with you about disagreeing with "the reasons for the courtcase outcome as they are presented", but bear in mind that the Thaiger article was based on a report in Coconuts who are hardly known for the accuracy of their reporting, and despite the claims that the case has been "widely-followed" reporting so far in the national and Thai press has been zero. Nil. Zip. Nada.

[Stonker]

33 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

Thailand: we need to attract high value foreigners

Also Thailand: well discriminate against them with dual pricing healthcare

If they're coming here for free state healthcare courtesy of the Thai (and foreign) taxpayer, they're hardly "high value foreigners" but wannabe free-loading spongers.

[DiJoDavO]

I'm the last person to call something racist, but this is actual racism, isn't it? 

They say it's not racist, but continue explaining how people on a visa pay more, and people who retire here even more. 

If they aren't racist, they should ask the usual bankbook papers, papers from work, proving your income and all the other unnecessary documents. As the income should be the reason one should pay more (if I understood this right) 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

You are right. However in my experience here, and that is approaching 40 years now , this duplistic term referred to as Thainess, affects the better schooled and of course the depraved elite. The shame is, something I noticed in my own business here employing Thais, is that those that had a deprived upbringing, given the opportunity of a good education, simply turned their backs on their own kind and pursed a path of selfishness. Now that was not all of course maybe only 50%, but it illustrates Thainess at its worst and even on forums such as this typical examples can be found.

Sadly that is true of many people from underprivileged backgrounds. Like you say, not everyone, but far too big a proportion. You see it with sports stars, film stars and fashion models. However, it’s not just at this elite level, but happens  at all economic levels. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

I won't. Because double the Thai price is still only roughly one quarter of the EU price. That's mainly why people fly here as medical tourists.

And we know about the tiers in advance.

If you can't pay it or you can't insure yourself, then go somewhere where you can. Or stay at home.

I don't agree with discrimination, but I also don't agree with entitlement or the right to be here and for Thailand to subsidise us.

Totally agree @Bob20  I don’t expect to subsidise people and wouldn’t expect them to do the same for me. 

[Stonker]

27 minutes ago, palooka said:

The case cited example dual pricing for antibody screening where the first two tiers pay 130 baht and the expat tier pay 190 baht, but the fourth tier for tourists and retirees pay double the original price. 

My maths say double the original price is 100%

Fair enough, but having quoted me saying that "England doesn't just charge them the full price, as Thailand does, but charges them an additional 50% more!" and then commented that "And Thailand charges 100% more for tier four" what you're saying now and what you said originally are two very different things.

To be clear, NHS England charge visitors 150% of the "National Tariff" while Thailand charges up to 100% of "the actual cost incurred".

 

[Bob20]

11 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

I'm the last person to call something racist, but this is actual racism, isn't it? 

They say it's not racist, but continue explaining how people on a visa pay more, and people who retire here even more. 

If they aren't racist, they should ask the usual bankbook papers, papers from work, proving your income and all the other unnecessary documents. As the income should be the reason one should pay more (if I understood this right) 

I think if you're born here and possibly paid taxes, you are entitled to healthcare. Every country has its own rules for this.

But for someone to enter a country and claim subsidised prices for healthcare is not reasonable.

Now, whether it's racism or discrimination, that is a totally different matter.

But just coming here and claim something of which it is public knowledge that you're not entitled to, is not right.

If you go somewhere and they have a pricelist and you decide to take the service, then you pay the advertised price. Simple as that.

[Stonker]

5 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Totally agree @Bob20  I don’t expect to subsidise people and wouldn’t expect them to do the same for me. 

But if you expect to be charged the same price as Thais (Tier One) or those foreigners paying taxes (Tier Three) you ARE expecting them (Thais and tax paying foreigners) to subsidise you.

You can't demand parity, complain if you don't get it, and then pretend that you're not expecting a subsidy ... well, you can, but it would be sheer hypocrisy to do so and it would also assume that you think those here are too stupid to realise that, which is rather insulting of other posters' intelligence.

[Donald]

It is incredible how one can make the most idiotic statements and don|t even realize the irony. No discrimination because it benefits Thai society. Extend that same philosophy to other aspects of life. No corruption or bribery because it benefits the under payed police and bureaucrats. Thailand is now in dire straits, but they still seem to believe that people will come just because it is such a lovely paradise. I think they are going to be in for a surprise. A pity for the people that tried to eek out a living and who had no say in what their government has concocted.

[Stonker]

25 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

I'm the last person to call something racist, but this is actual racism, isn't it? 

They say it's not racist, but continue explaining how people on a visa pay more, and people who retire here even more. 

If they aren't racist, they should ask the usual bankbook papers, papers from work, proving your income and all the other unnecessary documents. As the income should be the reason one should pay more (if I understood this right) 

No, foreigners working here (Tier 3) still get a subsidy as they're paying tax, while those who aren't resident, working or paying tax, retirees, etc (Tier 4) don't get any subsidy but pay the full "actual cost incurred".

How can that be either "racist"  or unfair?

[Donald]

30 minutes ago, richard said:

A couple of years ago I went "up north" with my lady friend and we hired a taxi for the day and came across the country residence of the late Kings mother. It was an absolute beautiful place in the mountains with a fantastic garden. Of course there was an entry fee. Yep Thais one price, me 200baht. I went for the wallet and the lady behind the glass said something to my friend. The lady asked if I was a pensioner and if I had a card with my age on it. Yep had my licence. So I got in for 60 baht. I would have been happy to pay I was more upset that I looked old. Not all places do this but it was nice of the lady. Of course in Aus we do get pensioner concessions but when it's school holidays I stay home. Petrol goes up, flights go up, accommodation goes up, fast food outlets add "Sunday" prices same as do restaurants. If your getting the service you pay for it. If your getting the hospital treatment and it's helping with your problem, be happy, pay up. I would be happy that the extra I pay might go towards a Thai person getting treatment they need but can't afford.

I do in principle agree with what you say regarding a Thai person that could maybe not afford the treatment because of the price, but maybe the hospitals and doctors should contribute their bit by lowering their bills. Treatment in Thailand is very expensive, when compared with the average income. I live with my Thai wife in an ex soviet republic. Health service is very good and prices very low. This is a country where the per capita income is lower then Thailand. Never the less foreigners and locals pay the same. Covid vaccinations are available and free of cost. Thailand is not a poor country, but one where the poor rich divide is extreme.

[Stonker]

7 minutes ago, Donald said:

It is incredible how one can make the most idiotic statements and don|t even realize the irony. No discrimination because it benefits Thai society. Extend that same philosophy to other aspects of life. No corruption or bribery because it benefits the under payed police and bureaucrats. Thailand is now in dire straits, but they still seem to believe that people will come just because it is such a lovely paradise. I think they are going to be in for a surprise. A pity for the people that tried to eek out a living and who had no say in what their government has concocted.

An "idiotic statement" quite possibly, but bear in mind the only source - Coconuts Bangkok

[DiJoDavO]

4 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

I think if you're born here and possibly paid taxes, you are entitled to healthcare. Every country has its own rules for this.

But for someone to enter a country and claim subsidised prices for healthcare is not reasonable.

Now, whether it's racism or discrimination, that is a totally different matter.

But just coming here and claim something of which it is public knowledge that you're not entitled to, is not right.

If you go somewhere and they have a pricelist and you decide to take the service, then you pay the advertised price. Simple as that.

But how about you try to be like a local and just make an average salary? 

I get the point of charging people more who are here on a short term.

I also get the point of charging more to people who can afford higher prices. 

But they do the same to people who want to live here permanently, while they are not even sure how much they are making is ridiculous. 

Now imagine someone getting some sort of treatment and you get the same. You saw it cost X amount of money, but you are being charged much more than that AND it's so high that you can't afford it. 

But this is not only a money thing. It's way more than that. Some people would like to live here permanently and try their best to be accepted. But well, maybe this isn't the place to expect such a thing. 

[Paco]

49 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

In reality you probable bring very little that benefits Thai society.  Since medical services are supplemented heavily by the Thai government why should they pay your bills. Thailand provides excellent medical care at a reasonable cost, even tear 4 prices. If your unhappy it might be better to return home for care. Many do.

I have good insurance, however  I know plenty of people that do not have that, and have 30000 to live on with a partner. I do not say they have to pay my bills do not turn it around, just equal pricing for all races, do not make a difference between black or white.. my home is thailand for 18+ years, and yes when something stinks like this I open my mouth widely,  ehy not for thailand I am anyway a nothing no matter how long you live here...

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

But how about you try to be like a local and just make an average salary? 

I get the point of charging people more who are here on a short term.

I also get the point of charging more to people who can afford higher prices. 

But they do the same to people who want to live here permanently, while they are not even sure how much they are making is ridiculous. 

Now imagine someone getting some sort of treatment and you get the same. You saw it cost X amount of money, but you are being charged much more than that AND it's so high that you can't afford it. 

But this is not only a money thing. It's way more than that. Some people would like to live here permanently and try their best to be accepted. But well, maybe this isn't the place to expect such a thing. 

I understand what you're saying.

But if I want a Ferrari, maybe I can or can't afford it. You don't have to pay my car.

If I want a meal in a Michelin star restaurant, maybe I can or can't afford it. You don't pay my meal.

If I want to live in Thailand, maybe I can or can't afford it. You don't have to pay my bills.

...

If necessary and possible, one can choose insurance.

And if you can't get or can't afford insurance and can't pay the bills, then maybe you shouldn't choose Thailand?

Same as you don't have a right to an expensive car or restaurant if you can't afford it.

If you don't agree with the rules, you can try to change them But while you know the rules, you have to play by them.

[Rain]

It is what it is.

Get over yourselves.

And stop with the pretense that you're all so special.

You're not.

[Stonker]

Just now, Donald said:

... maybe the hospitals and doctors should contribute their bit by lowering their bills.

THEY DO!

It's discretionary and left up to individual hospitals.  Even as a farang retiree I only get charged Tier 1 (Thai) prices at both my local hospital, where they know me - I've only ever seen two other farangs there in the last ten years - and at the provincial hospital where they don't.

3 minutes ago, Donald said:

Treatment in Thailand is very expensive, when compared with the average income.

For nearly all Thais it's either covered by the civil service welfare system (for civil servants), the social security system (for taxpayers), the military or police systems, or the Universal Health Care system (yellow card), plus a few who have free care (diabetics, those with mental health issues, disabilities, etc.)

The most expensive of those is the UHC which is a flat charge of 30 baht.

That's 30 baht (thirty baht) - less than one US$.  How cheap would you like it to be?

13 minutes ago, Donald said:

Health service is very good and prices very low. This is a country where the per capita income is lower then Thailand.

Less than free? 

Less than one US$, including all medical charges, doctors and medical charges, for any treatment, and food and accomodation regardless of the operation and the duration of stay???

15 minutes ago, Donald said:

Never the less foreigners and locals pay the same.

Including non-residents and visitors?

Where is this utopia where any visitor can fly in, pay less than 1US$, and get "very good" health service?

[MrStretch]

3 hours ago, yetanother said:

maybe that court thinks/rules corruption is ok too

But of course, because

3 hours ago, Thaiger said:

“The pricing was set on an appropriate basis of socioeconomic status, and it benefits Thailand, so it therefore doesn’t count as discrimination.”

So, anything that screws the farang and benefits Thailand can't be construed as "discrimination".  What dictionary are these people using?

We know they've looked at foreigners for only one thing...income, for a long time.  You have to hand it to them for xenophobic consistency.

[Stonker]

21 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

But how about you try to be like a local and just make an average salary? 

The minimum salary required to qualify for a work permit is 50,000 baht per month for a westerner (less for some Asian and a few other countries) so a farang CAN'T "just make an average salary" unless they're working illegally.

25 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

But they do the same to people who want to live here permanently, while they are not even sure how much they are making is ridiculous.

Not "ridiculous" but a statutory minimum, which anyone coming here legally says they have - if they don't, they've lied to get their visa.

27 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

Now imagine someone getting some sort of treatment and you get the same. You saw it cost X amount of money, but you are being charged much more than that AND it's so high that you can't afford it.

Then you shouldn't have taken the treatment, as the other person was given a subsidy that they're entitled to either because they're Thai or because they've paid their taxes but you're not Thai and you haven't paid your taxes.

30 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

But this is not only a money thing. It's way more than that. Some people would like to live here permanently and try their best to be accepted. But well, maybe this isn't the place to expect such a thing. 

No, it's a personal thing, and nobody has a right to be "accepted" anywhere.  Acceptance is earnt, like respect, not just given away, and that's what some people don't want to accept themselves.

[Stonker]

30 minutes ago, Paco said:

I have good insurance, however  I know plenty of people that do not have that, and have 30000 to live on with a partner.

Then they shouldn't be here as that's below the minimum for a marriage extension and well below the minimum for a retirement extension.

30 minutes ago, Paco said:

I do not say they have to pay my bills do not turn it around, just equal pricing for all races, do not make a difference between black or white.. my home is thailand for 18+ years, and yes when something stinks like this I open my mouth widely, ...

But that's exactly what you're saying - that everyone should pay "equal pricing" for health care regardless of whether they're a taxpayer, a resident, a national, or a free loading parasite.

Do they in your country, whatever it is?

If not, why aren't you complaining equally vocally about your own country?

[9S_]

Will Thais fight for my right to get a free high quality vaccine with no restrictions like how Thais can go to the US without quarantine, walk into any pharmacy,  not show an ID or work permit or work visa or house registration and get a free high quality vaccine paid for the by the American taxpayer??

like these people

 

[poohy]

3 hours ago, Griff1315 said:

 Shame on you Thailand 

What a pathetic statement to make 

Administrative Court in Phetchaburi ruled that multi-tiered “dual pricing” in Thai hospitals are not discriminatory as they benefit Thailand. 

Not discriminatory as it benefits Thailand, says it all.

Shame 

Shame

Shame

Stuff you foreigners  says "im alright Somchai"

 An you imagine them whinging and crying into their somtan it happened to them overseas

Despicable little people in charge here

[LoongFred]

57 minutes ago, Paco said:

I have good insurance, however  I know plenty of people that do not have that, and have 30000 to live on with a partner. I do not say they have to pay my bills do not turn it around, just equal pricing for all races, do not make a difference between black or white.. my home is thailand for 18+ years, and yes when something stinks like this I open my mouth widely,  ehy not for thailand I am anyway a nothing no matter how long you live here...

Ok   30000 should be in dollars. If in baht you don’t meet the minimum for a marriage visa. Good you have insurance though. I guess it’s life on the edge for some.

When I was on a research grant, I took a second job. I’ve never regretted hard work. Also did the same when I had two kids at the university.

[Soidog]

58 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Fair enough, but having quoted me saying that "England doesn't just charge them the full price, as Thailand does, but charges them an additional 50% more!" and then commented that "And Thailand charges 100% more for tier four" what you're saying now and what you said originally are two very different things.

To be clear, NHS England charge visitors 150% of the "National Tariff" while Thailand charges up to 100% of "the actual cost incurred".

Can people please stop PM me with posts sent by @Stonker. He talks one sided nonsense and causes me to respond (you know who you are)

@Stonker  talking nonsense and conflating issues as always. The 150% is for people who chose to travel or who seek medical treatment for things other than emergencies. This seems perfectly reasonable to me as I have said in numerous other posts. If you are a foreigner and need hospital treatment as a matter of urgency or need to visit a GP, those services are Free. As in NO charge. The attached is from a government website and explains this. For convenience I have also attached a couple of pictures showing the highlighted comment.
 

Furthermore, you will also see that there is a long list of people who are exempt from any costs. 
 

You know perfectly well the approach taken in the U.K. and how vastly different it is in Thailand. To spout on about costs and trying to suggest the authorities in Thailand are anything near as accommodating towards foreigners is utterly ridiculous. To draw a comparison is misrepresentation bordering on lies.  
 

You make a whole series of equally ridiculous claims relating to long stay visitors, retirees and migrants to the U.K.  Once again, you know perfectly well that the U.K. is a multicultural, multiethnic society that welcomes people from around the world to educate, work, marry and live in the country. They do this with a progressive attitude irrespective of wealth, gender or colour. While it may no longer be an open door to EU citizens, to claim otherwise is a clear distortion of the truth on the ground. I don’t know why you wish to run the U.K. down as I suspect you are a U.K. citizen? Perhaps you are upset if you no longer get your annual pension increases because you decided to trade in your residency in one of the finest countries in the world and now need to convince yourself of your actions being correct. Good luck to you. 
 

I would urge others to read the attached link to see the reality of the situation in the U.K.  rather than the nonsense Posted by Stonker. It’s simply fake news and, misrepresentation and frustrated lies.
 

Put in basic terms, If you come here on holiday or while being educated here and get knocked off your motorbike or get attacked in the street, you will be taken to hospital, get whatever treatment you need and not be charged. Equally, if you are working here and fall ill, go to your local GP (doctor) and you will be treated free of charge. Have a major problem that doesn’t need immediate treatment and do as many do. Pretend to be seriously sick and go to A&E You will be treated free of charge. The only people who get charged are those rich Arabs and wealthy foreigners  who prefer to come to the U.K. for their treatment and are happy to pay the surcharge. Just as I would in Thailand. The suggestion that some old person who is not a resident falling sick and not getting treatment because they can’t afford it is an affront to the dedicated workers in the NHS!  
 

Now please, no more PM’s to me from this guy. I have only so much time to play his silly games 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care/how-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care

 

[DiJoDavO]

30 minutes ago, Stonker said:

The minimum salary required to qualify for a work permit is 50,000 baht per month for a westerner (less for some Asian and a few other countries) so a farang CAN'T "just make an average salary" unless they're working illegally.

Not "ridiculous" but a statutory minimum, which anyone coming here legally says they have - if they don't, they've lied to get their visa.

Then you shouldn't have taken the treatment, as the other person was given a subsidy that they're entitled to either because they're Thai or because they've paid their taxes but you're not Thai and you haven't paid your taxes.

No, it's a personal thing, and nobody has a right to be "accepted" anywhere.  Acceptance is earnt, like respect, not just given away, and that's what some people don't want to accept themselves.

I was about to reply to your previous message. Thank you for posting that. I didn't look into it that much. The news article should've explained this part a bit more actually. 

It seems fair enough if I understood it well. Thai people benefit the most because of this, after that the foreign workers and after that the people who don't do their part like tourists etc. 

But I do think over time, people who want to stay here forever, should get some benefit on this, even if it's little by little. Especially talking about laws which have to do with health. Maybe some sort of benefit after staying 5 years, 10 years, slowly into the next tier. 

 

But, this latest message is a bit strange imo. 

Example: "Then you shouldn't have taken the treatment" 

What am I going to do instead, die without treatment? 

-----------------------------

but you're not Thai and you haven't paid your taxes.

I do pay my taxes, and if a normal cost for a treatment isn't included in this, then what is? Also, why do I even pay taxes when almost everything I do, is more expensive than when for example my wife does it? For example on a holiday, it's just awkward, not only for me, but for the person asking more from me than my wife too. It takes the fun out of everything instantly. Not because of the price (I can't complain about what I have) but the idea

---------------------------

Acceptance is earnt, like respect, not just given away,

Maybe if acceptance and respect are shown instantly and from that point look whether you still accept one or not, instead of earning it, life would change a bit for the better for everyone.