Thailand re-entry - Questions.

[farang]

A number of posts from the topic News Forum - Thailand reduces quarantine to 7 days for fully vaccinated arrivals from October - Page 5 - Thaiger News - Thaiger Talk (thethaiger.com) have been moved to this newly created topic in the correct section.
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i agree with  vlad,these restrictions need lifting.that insurance deal is crazy.most coming there have insurance already.but the embassy dont accept it.im hoping they lift the insurance and the coe.thats more un needed things to do and hassel with.and if youre 75 or over you cant buy the thai insurance any way.why not just charge all  coming into the country 500 to 1,000 or 5000 baht  on arrival depending on the stay.sell it right there at entry point.so im looking to return soon as these requirements are lifted.

[Marc26]

9 minutes ago, farang said:

i agree with  vlad,these restrictions need lifting.that insurance deal is crazy.most coming there have insurance already.but the embassy dont accept it.im hoping they lift the insurance and the coe.thats more un needed things to do and hassel with.and if youre 75 or over you cant buy the thai insurance any way.why not just charge all  coming into the country 500 to 1,000 or 5000 baht  on arrival depending on the stay.sell it right there at entry point.so im looking to return soon as these requirements are lifted.

I do agree with just charging people for insurance when they enter the country, but then we would have 10 threads with guys whining that they already have insurance

 

They can't win either way.

 

And it's also ridiculous to put the onus on the country to know if your personal health insurance would cover you, how would that work practically?

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

I do agree with just charging people for insurance when they enter the country, but then we would have 10 threads with guys whining that they already have insurance

They can't win either way.

And it's also ridiculous to put the onus on the country to know if your personal health insurance would cover you, how would that work practically?

Well isn’t that what they’ve got Embassey staff all around the world doing right now as part of the COE process? 
 

Surely you either buy the insurance yourself and present it at check-In or, if there is any doubt then you buy it on arrival. If you can’t present a clear and quick proof of insurance then you either don’t board the plane or agree to buy it on arrival. They do with with passports, tickets and visas so it’s hardly that much of an additional check. To be honest, if temporarily they wanted to just put 2,000 baht in a ticket I’d pay the bloody thing just take the hassle away. They are doing all this and how many people have actually fallen sick anyway. It’s simply too much. Make it simple and let’s get moving 

[Marc26]

9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Well isn’t that what they’ve got Embassey staff all around the world doing right now as part of the COE process? 
 

Surely you either buy the insurance yourself and present it at check-In or, if there is any doubt then you buy it on arrival. If you can’t present a clear and quick proof of insurance then you either don’t board the plane or agree to buy it on arrival. They do with with passports, tickets and visas so it’s hardly that much of an additional check. To be honest, if temporarily they wanted to just put 2,000 baht in a ticket I’d pay the bloody thing just take the hassle away. They are doing all this and how many people have actually fallen sick anyway. It’s simply too much. Make it simple and let’s get moving 

As I said above, I think that's the best solution, but people will whine about that also, they whine about everything Thailand related......

 

When you travel to Panama, they give tourists around 5kusd free insurance

 

Can't see why Thailand can't do the same(at a larger amount) and then charge you. And yes, it would end up being a money maker for them also, in the long run

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Marc26

[Benroon]

16 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

As I said above, I think that's the best solution, but people will whine about that also, they whine about everything Thailand related......

When you travel to Panama, they give tourists around 5kusd free insurance

Can't see why Thailand can't do the same(at a larger amount) and then charge you. And yes, it would end up being a money maker for them also, in the long run

Out of interest do you know the going rate for the Covid insurance ?

[Marc26]

21 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Out of interest do you know the going rate for the Covid insurance ?

https://www.lumahealth.com/travel-insurance/covid-insurance/

 

If the govt of Thailand was negotiating this in bulk(they would be doing it to bring more people in)

I'd imagine they could offer it cheaper......

[Benroon]

4 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

https://www.lumahealth.com/travel-insurance/covid-insurance/

If the govt of Thailand was negotiating this in bulk(they would be doing it to bring more people in)

I'd imagine they could offer it cheaper......

31.5k a year (the cheapest plan!) - jesus christ ! Surely there should be a sliding scale downwards for vaccinated people given they will cost hospitals less should the worst happen

[Benroon]

OK here's one for the technicians - say you go into thailand on an annual visa with only a couple of weeks left on it before you have to renew. 

Surely you could buy the 30 day cover (3k) as immigration won't know you're going to renew it right ? So you could just say you're going in for the couple of weeks that's left on your visa with no intention of renewing. Then you 'change your mind' and decide to renew it. No-one is going to come knocking to see if you've renewed it surely.

[JamesE]

46 minutes ago, Benroon said:

OK here's one for the technicians - say you go into thailand on an annual visa with only a couple of weeks left on it before you have to renew. 

Surely you could buy the 30 day cover (3k) as immigration won't know you're going to renew it right ? So you could just say you're going in for the couple of weeks that's left on your visa with no intention of renewing. Then you 'change your mind' and decide to renew it. No-one is going to come knocking to see if you've renewed it surely.

Won't work like that. You'll have to prove coverage for the maximum permitted stay under a visa, not merely until the visa expires. Good idea, but it won't fly.

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

31.5k a year (the cheapest plan!) - jesus christ ! Surely there should be a sliding scale downwards for vaccinated people given they will cost hospitals less should the worst happen

If you are living there 31.5k/yr is not over the top from normal private insurance 

 

My 20yr old stepson has Aetna Gold(possibly platinum) I forget and it was close to 25k, or maybe 20k I forget 

 

Now I don't what is in that cheapest plan you talk about though....

[Soidog]

28 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Won't work like that. You'll have to prove coverage for the maximum permitted stay under a visa, not merely until the visa expires. Good idea, but it won't fly.

Also what about the need to show your return flight as part of the COE process? You could book a cheap one out and lose it but could be an issue with the plan? 

[JamesE]

15 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Also what about the need to show your return flight as part of the COE process? You could book a cheap one out and lose it but could be an issue with the plan? 

The flight thing is visa dependent. If you come in as a tourist then the return flight is needed. If you come in long-stay then 1-way is okay.

[Soidog]

5 minutes ago, JamesE said:

The flight thing is visa dependent. If you come in as a tourist then the return flight is needed. If you come in long-stay then 1-way is okay.

Are you referring to a Non-O or Non-OA visa when you say long stay, or do you have a visa extended on the basis of retirement? 

[Benroon]

55 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

If you are living there 31.5k/yr is not over the top from normal private insurance 

My 20yr old stepson has Aetna Gold(possibly platinum) I forget and it was close to 25k, or maybe 20k I forget 

Now I don't what is in that cheapest plan you talk about though....

It is just covid insurance it’s not a general insurance policy such as your stepsons. Thus a rip off!

I insure myself so wouldn’t ordinarily pay for anything so would be doubly annoying. 

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, JamesE said:

Won't work like that. You'll have to prove coverage for the maximum permitted stay under a visa, not merely until the visa expires. Good idea, but it won't fly.

But surely the time left on a visa is the maximum permitted ? No-one knows at that point if you are going to renew it or not do they, so how can they demand more ?

Also Faz wrote this on the covid insurance thread 

The Covid Insurance must cover the period of stay granted on entry.

 

If you are returning on a re-entry permit on an extension based on retirement then the Covid Insurance must be valid until the renewal date of your extension.

??? - Apologies if this is going off piste

 

[Benroon]

31 minutes ago, Benroon said:

It is just covid insurance it’s not a general insurance policy such as your stepsons. Thus a rip off!

I insure myself so wouldn’t ordinarily pay for anything so would be doubly annoying. 

Too late to edit it (why is there a limit on how long you can edit something ?) but I got the above wrong, it is a general medical insurance policy

[JamesE]

50 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Are you referring to a Non-O or Non-OA visa when you say long stay, or do you have a visa extended on the basis of retirement? 

Doesn't matter. If you have a VE you get stamped in for 45 (30 again soon???) days and you have to have 30 days of coverage. A TV gets you 60 days so you need 2 months of coverage. If you come in on a new Non-O (retirement) you'll be stamped in for 90 days so have to have that much coverage. If you have an O-A or Non-O giving you a year's entry then you need a year's policy. It's tricky right now and could get expensive if you make the wrong choice.

I also found out more about the required return flight. According to TAT's Phuket Sandbox General Information page: "If the length of stay is less than 14 nights, travellers must also present a confirmed flight ticket out of Thailand."

[Soidog]

7 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Doesn't matter. If you have a VE you get stamped in for 45 (30 again soon???) days and you have to have 30 days of coverage. A TV gets you 60 days so you need 2 months of coverage. If you come in on a new Non-O (retirement) you'll be stamped in for 90 days so have to have that much coverage. If you have an O-A or Non-O giving you a year's entry then you need a year's policy. It's tricky right now and could get expensive if you make the wrong choice.

I also found out more about the required return flight. According to TAT's Phuket Sandbox General Information page: "If the length of stay is less than 14 nights, travellers must also present a confirmed flight ticket out of Thailand."

Thanks for this @JamesE .  It’s a nightmare navigating your way through this at the best of times. My normal routine is a 60 day tourist visa which I then extend by 30 days at a cost of 1900. I then take a short holiday to Malaysia or Vietnam and then come back in on a VE for 30 days. That way I stay for at least 4 months plus a short holiday elsewhere. Now I really am not sure which way to play it should I return early next year?  
 

I think the issue with the return flight relates more to the visa application. As I read it, if I want a 60 day tourist visa, I will need to show a return flight within that 60 day window. This was never a problem before as I explained above. I always got a 60 day tourist visa and they never asked for flight information.
 

As  things stand I may well leave it until March or April. This all needs to be much simpler, but appreciate these are difficult out times. 
 

Thanks again for your insight

[JamesE]

5 minutes ago, Benroon said:

But surely the time left on a visa is the maximum permitted ? No-one knows at that point if you are going to renew it or not do they, so how can they demand more ?

Also Faz wrote this on the covid insurance thread 

The Covid Insurance must cover the period of stay granted on entry.

If you are returning on a re-entry permit on an extension based on retirement then the Covid Insurance must be valid until the renewal date of your extension.

??? - Apologies if this is going off piste

A visa gives you permission to enter the country for a specific length of time for a specific reason. You enter for that length of time whether it's on the first day of the visa's validity or on the last. As far as @Faz's take on the retirement extension goes, I have no first-hand experience with that. So I would go with what he says. I think that would depend on convincing the immigration agent to only stamp you in until the expiration of the extension and not for the entry permitted by the extension. What confuses me about this is: Do you get an extension of the O (Ret.) visa, or an extension of permission to stay? I've seen it written up as both. Hopefully, he can weigh in and clarify and correct me.

[JerseyBKK]

41 minutes ago, JamesE said:

A visa gives you permission to enter the country for a specific length of time for a specific reason. You enter for that length of time whether it's on the first day of the visa's validity or on the last. As far as @Faz's take on the retirement extension goes, I have no first-hand experience with that. So I would go with what he says. I think that would depend on convincing the immigration agent to only stamp you in until the expiration of the extension and not for the entry permitted by the extension. What confuses me about this is: Do you get an extension of the O (Ret.) visa, or an extension of permission to stay? I've seen it written up as both. Hopefully, he can weigh in and clarify and correct me.

There are different rules for non-O and non-OA and depends if you get the non-O in Thailand or abroad. There is no extension of a non-O visa for retirement. Visa gets you into the country. When you enter, Immigration at the airport stamps the permission to stay date. Before that date comes around, you need to get an annual extension of the permission to stay based on retirement. Lots of rules involved. Like making sure you get a re-entry stamp if you have an annual extension and plan to travel abroad and return.

I am returning in 2 weeks. My annual extension of stay runs until July. I also have a multi re-entry stamp. Technically I would have to show Covid coverage until that July. However, I intend to return again to the US in late Dec for 3 months and will show a return ticket and only buy insurance until that date. Hopefully they'll approve my COE.  If not, then I'll be forced to buy unnecessary coverage to last until July.

Edited September 27, 2021 by JerseyBKK

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

It is just covid insurance it’s not a general insurance policy such as your stepsons. Thus a rip off!

I insure myself so wouldn’t ordinarily pay for anything so would be doubly annoying. 

Ok I thought I would be health insurance that includes covid coverage 

[Rain]

5 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Ok I thought I would be health insurance that includes covid coverage 

It's not.

More of the usual ruse and flim-flam.

[BlueSphinx]

56 minutes ago, JerseyBKK said:

There are different rules for non-O and non-OA and depends if you get the non-O in Thailand or abroad. There is no extension of a non-O visa for retirement. Visa gets you into the country. When you enter, Immigration at the airport stamps the permission to stay date. Before that date comes around, you need to get an annual extension of the permission to stay based on retirement. Lots of rules involved. Like making sure you get a re-entry stamp if you have an annual extension and plan to travel abroad and return.

I am returning in 2 weeks. My annual extension of stay runs until July. I also have a multi re-entry stamp. Technically I would have to show Covid coverage until that July. However, I intend to return again to the US in late Dec for 3 months and will show a return ticket and only buy insurance until that date. Hopefully they'll approve my COE.  If not, then I'll be forced to buy unnecessary coverage to last until July.

In your case, having bought the Re-Entry Permit proves to be more of a burden than an advantage.  That Re-Entry Permit protects your current July 2022 permission to stay based on your original Non Imm O or O-A Visa.  The consequence of having that re-entry permit stamp in your passport is:

1 - You won't be able to apply for a NEW Visa at the Thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country, because you already have a valid permission to stay based on your original Non Imm O or O-A Visa. 

2 - You will be stamped in by Thai border-immigration on entry till July 2022.  And hence you need covid-19 insurance for the full period of the permission to stay you will be provided on entry. 

> So it as good as certain that your plan (buying covid-19 insurance only for 3 months and showing your December 2021 return-flight ticket) will not be accepted.

Fortunately, if you did not already buy your flight-ticket, there is a cheap and easy way to solve all the issues.  Simply buy a return-ticket with Emirates who provide FREE covid-19 insurance included in the ticket-price.  That free covid-19 insurance will cover the full period of your trip or 1 year (whichever comes first).  Make sure when booking that your return-date is after the July 2022 permission to stay you currently have.  And once you are in Thailand you can change the return-flight date at NO extra cost (even for economy tickets), and use it for your envisioned December 2021 trip back home.

[BlueSphinx]

2 hours ago, JamesE said:

... What confuses me about this is: Do you get an extension of the O (Ret.) visa, or an extension of permission to stay? I've seen it written up as both. Hopefully, he can weigh in and clarify and correct me.

A Visa provides you with a permission to stay on entering Thailand.  Once you have used a Single-Entry Visa it is void (consider it a single-use 'entry-ticket').  When applying for an extension of stay at your local Immigration Office, you are extending the permission to stay which was provided to you based on the valid Visa on which you entered Thailand.

You cannot 'extend' a Visa, you can only extend the permission to stay that Visa provided you on entry.

The confusion is due to the fact that Thai Immigration Offices, even in their official statements, use the term 'Visa' even when they are referring to permissions to stay.  The Thai Immigration Offices do not issue (nor extend) Visa.  The only exception being the 'change of Visa' process,  where they allow those that entered Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa, to apply in-country for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.  And that Visa in your passport is immediately voided on issue and transferred into a permission to stay when they hand it to you. 

[Faz]

2 hours ago, JamesE said:

As far as @Faz's take on the retirement extension goes, I have no first-hand experience with that. So I would go with what he says. I think that would depend on convincing the immigration agent to only stamp you in until the expiration of the extension and not for the entry permitted by the extension.

With an extension of stay (a permit, not a Visa) and re-entry permit, on re-entry you'll always be stamped in and permitted to stay until the expiry date of your extension of stay. You cannot be stamped in for a longer period beyond the date of permission of stay already granted.

2 hours ago, JamesE said:

What confuses me about this is: Do you get an extension of the O (Ret.) visa, or an extension of permission to stay? I've seen it written up as both. Hopefully, he can weigh in and clarify and correct me.

You extend your permission of stay granted from the original entry, be it for an additional 30, 60 or 365 days. You cannot extend the validity of a Visa. 

Visa validity is different from the period of stay.

Visa validity is the period during which a visa can be used to enter Thailand. The validity of a visa is granted with discretion by the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General and is displayed on the visa sticker.

The period of stay is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port of entry and in accordance with the type of visa. The period of stay granted by the immigration officer is displayed on the arrival stamp. Travellers who wish to stay longer than such period may apply for extensions of stay at offices of the Immigration Bureau located in the provinces. 

https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/1652-visa-or-extension-of-stay/?tab=comments#comment-5567

General information - Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand (mfa.go.th)