News Forum - Study: recovery from Covid-19 gives more immunity than Pfizer

[Thaiger]

A new study appears to contradict previous data about the efficacy of vaccines, claiming that those who have recovered from Covid-19 previously have more immunity from the Delta variant than those who are fully vaccinated with the Pfizer and BioNTech vaccines. Conducted by Israeli researchers, it is the largest real-world study that compares the natural immunity people get from having recovered from Covid-19 to the safety provided by the Pfizer vaccine. And while previous studies showed that previously having Covid-19 provided decent immunity from reinfection, but not as much as vaccines, this new research seems to suggest otherwise. One big […]

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[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Preliminary research also suggests that a booster vaccine appears to prolong and strengthen protection for those who have already recovered from a previous Covid-19 infection, though with booster shots only just getting underway in a select few countries, Israel included, the long-term effects or benefits of the extra shots can not yet be determined.

That's a very deceptive and very bad re-write of both the Bloomberg article and the report.

.

These are NOT "booster shots" or "extra shots" but are FIRST shots of the vaccine given to those who had been previously infected.

This was what was called "Model 3" in the study, which compared those who had been infected before and had then had a single dose of the vaccine with those who had been infected before and not had any vaccine jabs, and it concluded that although the numbers were too small to be conclusive it suggested, based on those numbers, that the chances of those who had been infected before being re-infected was halved compared to those who'd been infected before but hadn't had a jab.

.

2 hours ago, Thaiger said:

These findings would suggest a blow to the idea that vaccination is a definite solution to the Covid-19 pandemic while giving a boost to those who advocate for allowing Covid-19 to run its natural course through the world population allowing for natural immunity and eventually herd immunity.

That was NOT the conclusion of either the original study or the Bloomberg article, but was coincidentally (?) the conclusion of an anti-vaxxer article linked to elsewhere here.

.

The conclusion of the yet-to-be-published study, which has ONLY been published pre-full release, which is VERY different, was that vaccinations should be given to ALL, regardless of whether they'd previously been infected or not, since a single dose of the vaccine would halve the chances of those who'd previously been infected being re-infected, while a full vaccination (two doses) would probably give them even more protection although that had yet to be confirmed.

At the same time, vaccinating those who had not yet been infected would give them some protection from the Delta variant but not as much as those who'd been previously infected (which would come if/when those vaccinated were infected).

At absolutely NO time, nor in any way, did the original study or the Bloomberg article suggest "allowing Covid-19 to run its natural course" - this is an appalling and complete misrepresentation of the study and the Bloomberg article.

[kmc]

hmm.  the companies who sell these products tell us their product is better than natural immunity.  is this surprising to any one?!?!

[Freeduhdumb]

55 minutes ago, kmc said:

hmm.  the companies who sell these products tell us their product is better than natural immunity.  is this surprising to any one?!?!

You can trust us... 

Pfizer has a pretty clear track record... so do many other BIG pharma institutions...

Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History Pfizer to Pay $2.3 Billion for Fraudulent Marketing WASHINGTON – American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products, the Justice Department announced today.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history#:~:text=Pfizer

[Soidog]

I never imagined anything else. Of course your body will create better defences against future infection having had the virus compared to vaccination. Your body creates around 28 different defences against Covid having had the virus, whereas protection through vaccination attacks one or two elements of the virus. Nothing new or surprising in that as far as I can see. 

[LuckyStrike]

A little OTish, but not really. Check out "The Crime of the Century" a two part documentary on HBO.

"The Crime of the Century is an American two-part documentary film, directed, produced, and written by Alex Gibney. The film follows the opioid epidemic in the United States, and the political operatives, government regulations and corporations that enable the abuse of opioids."

The pharmaceutical company wasn't evil IMHO. Just greedy with no regard to the harm they were doing. I don't think much has changed

[Freeduhdumb]

9 minutes ago, LuckyStrike said:

A little OTish, but not really. Check out "The Crime of the Century" a two part documentary on HBO.

"The Crime of the Century is an American two-part documentary film, directed, produced, and written by Alex Gibney. The film follows the opioid epidemic in the United States, and the political operatives, government regulations and corporations that enable the abuse of opioids."

The pharmaceutical company wasn't evil IMHO. Just greedy with no regard to the harm they were doing. I don't think much has changed

Right BiG pharma never lies... completely trustworthy, all of them. Lol. 

Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History Pfizer to Pay $2.3 Billion for Fraudulent Marketing WASHINGTON – American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products, the Justice Department announced today.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history#:~:text=Pfizer

[Faraday]

Here are the conclusions of the study named in the op.

Unable to post a direct link.

Off you go Bob, give 'em hell....! 

 

 

[Rain]

One of numerous legitimate theories that are almost always questioned by the suspect convention.

 

Why is this?

[annoynimous]

it's great to compare a guy who's been to hell and back, with the guy who is preparing to go to hell.

[think-and-ask]

now, news in world, with doctors /scientists from "institutions, what is from government,"
say, 1 pfizer vaccine, is good enough or best, when are infected before, at any time.

because ? most people in world, not want 2-3 vaccines, every year,
as government in, canada, austria etc. said already.

so governments of lobby or banks, are going back, a little,
what is not surprising, or who wants, so called vaccines, who have to avoid your immune-system.

now i know again, why i not did go to circus with clowns and animals, for many years,
because i have governments for to get a show.

[Zool]

...and in other news, water is wet.

[AlexPTY]

I am not a great fan of the Pfizer at the moment : 

Moderna Inc.’s Covid vaccine generated more than double the antibodies of a similar shot made by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE in research directly comparing immune responses to the inoculations.

A study of almost 2,500 workers at a major Belgium hospital system found antibody levels among individuals who hadn’t been infected with the coronavirus before getting two doses of the Moderna vaccine averaged 2,881 units per milliliter, compared with 1,108 units/mL in an equivalent group who got two jabs of the Pfizer shot.

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, AlexPTY said:

I am not a great fan of the Pfizer at the moment : 

Moderna Inc.’s Covid vaccine generated more than double the antibodies of a similar shot made by Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE in research directly comparing immune responses to the inoculations.

A study of almost 2,500 workers at a major Belgium hospital system found antibody levels among individuals who hadn’t been infected with the coronavirus before getting two doses of the Moderna vaccine averaged 2,881 units per milliliter, compared with 1,108 units/mL in an equivalent group who got two jabs of the Pfizer shot.

Not arguing with your figures, but please provide the source.

What I would say already though, is that one paper with a non-random test-population of only 2500, doesn't really compare with 5.33 billion jabs given until now and the compiled research we have from that.

[gummy]

11 hours ago, kmc said:

hmm.  the companies who sell these products tell us their product is better than natural immunity.  is this surprising to any one?!?!

Well apart from those who died from covid and never developed natural immunity but I suppose there again it does not fit the flat earthers arguments does it ?

[Guest1]

those who have recovered from Covid-19 previously have more immunity from the Delta variant than those who are fully vaccinated with the Pfizer and BioNTech vaccines

What is the study saying about fully vaccinated people AFTER they caught the virus?

To decide, which way getting infected gets you more chances, to die, that would be the thing to find out!

Since we are now on the way to understand, that all and everyone will catch this virus in the nearer future . Is it better, without or with being vaccinated? I think, most of us would like to have 2, or 3, shots of (almost?) ANY vaccine, first. 

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

Not arguing with your figures, but please provide the source.

 

Blomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-31/moderna-jab-spurs-double-pfizer-covid-antibody-levels-in-study

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

Blomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-31/moderna-jab-spurs-double-pfizer-covid-antibody-levels-in-study

Thanks, you'll find everything you need to know in @Stonker's first reply to the topic . Could have saved you a lot of typing.

[Stonker]

14 hours ago, Faraday said:

Unable to post a direct link.

You can find it at https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415

[BigHewer]

9 hours ago, Zool said:

...and in other news, water is wet.

The best reply on this thread is from our good friend Zool. 

Of course acquired immunity is more potent and lasting. As I have said, the dude with acquired immunity is feeling a lot less nervous than his buddy with five blank pages in his vaccination passport app saved for future jabs with questionable efficacy.

The jabs are a risk hedge only. Period. The gold standard is acquired immunity, but you can forgo that and roll up your sleeve. Still a risk, reduced somewhat, whatever. 

Some people invest in bonds, others laugh at the idea. I’m more of a stocks guy.

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, Guest1 said:

 

To decide, which way getting infected gets you more chances, to die, that would be the thing to find out!

 

That's one of the many problems with the study, which to be fair they readily admit.

They didn't include any fatalities in any of the two and a half million cases in the study, nor did they grade hospitalisations or severity of symptoms for anyone.

Rather disappointing under the circumstances.

5 hours ago, Guest1 said:

 

Is it better, without or with being vaccinated?

 

That's pretty clear looking at each group compared, although surprisingly it's not spelt out and, again, with fatalities excluded and severity ungraded it hardly gives any of the answers it would have been expected to given the size of the study - a bit disappointing, given the hype.

 

Basically, as expected by most people, you're better off vaccinated.

If you've not had the virus, then vaccines reduce the chances of it being fatal or serious if / when you do catch it .....

..... and if you've had the virus, then one jab halves the chances of you being seriously affected if you catch it again and two jabs probably reduce the chances by considerably more.

[Stonker]

4 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

The jabs are a risk hedge only. Period. The gold standard is acquired immunity, (snip)

Sorry, but according to the study that's not correct.

The "gold standard" is acquired immunity and vaccination, which is twice as effective as just acquired immunity.

12 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

As I have said, the dude with acquired immunity is feeling a lot less nervous than his buddy with five blank pages in his vaccination passport app saved for future jabs with questionable efficacy.

Fair enough, but the dude with the vaccination passport is probably feeling a lot less nervous than his buddy with no vaccination passport at all, who in turn is probably a lot less nervous than his buddy with no vaccination passport who's just been hospitalised with Covid-19.

These things are all comparative.

[Guest1]

I just think, the problem here is: That is all not written in stone!

Are 20 years old better prepared, vaccinated?  Not knowing, what side effects may show up in 10 years  time?

Or should they try to trust there immune system? 

 

I totally agree, as older you are, as higher youre weight is, diabetics, ....., as better your chances are, gettin even Sinovacs Coronavac, only.

But I also understand parents of youngsters who question vaccination of there kids, or 20-40 years old  slim and sportive people with no know condition. 

[BigHewer]

8 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Fair enough, but the dude with the vaccination passport is probably feeling a lot less nervous than his buddy with no vaccination passport at all, who in turn is probably a lot less nervous than his buddy with no vaccination passport who's just been hospitalised with Covid-19.

Sorry, I’ve lost track of whose buddy is whose.

[BigHewer]

The reality is (in my opinion) that if you recover from COVID and then get vaccinated, you’re a fool. 

So much doubt, risk, unproven future efficacy. Endless booster shots, vaccine dependency. No further comment.